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Did The Washington Post Do A Pro-Dean Biased Poll?

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:26 AM
Original message
Did The Washington Post Do A Pro-Dean Biased Poll?
Edited on Wed Dec-24-03 10:52 AM by cryingshame
Note to Moderators: This thread is about the methodology used in a Washington Post Poll and the fact that it apparently conducted a poll whose design is heavily biased in ONE Democratic Candidate's favor. This isn't about the article the poll was cited in nor the actual poll results. That the Washington Post, a supposedly Liberal newspaper of record, might have done a Biased Poll for one Democratic Candidate is a pretty big deal. This the sort of thing, that if it turns out to be true, could influence many potential voters.

I took the term "Push Poll" out of the thread title so the thread can't be locked due to "misleading" title.

I would suggest emailing the omsbudman at the Washington Post and ask for a clarification. Politely. For some reason, when I try to post the omsbudsman's email address it doesn't work...

The latest Washington Post-ABC News poll shows Dean way ahead in the Democratic presidential race with the support of 31% of Democrats. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22493-2003Dec22.html

Unfortunately, the questions asked and the order they were apparently given guaranteed that this poll would be a sort of "push poll" for Dean. The complete list of poll questions and their order are virtually assuredto inflate Dean's numbers.

After several questions about Bush, the poll asks respondents for whom they would vote in a Bush-Dean race.
There are no corresponding questions about voting for any other specific Democrat against Bush.

The poll then asks several more questions about Bush.

Then respondents are asked whether they trust Bush or Dean more on specific issues.
Again, there are no questions setting up other Democratic candidates against Bush.

Finally, the poll asks Democrats for whom would they vote in a Democratic presidential primary or caucus.

What this indicates- by the time anti-Bush Democrats (the majority of Democrats) are asked which Democratic presidential candidate they support, they've already expressed themselves as preferring Dean over Bush and trusting Dean more than Bush on specific issues.

Democrats who aren't yet following the Primaries closely and are still unfamiliar with the candidates would be more likely to select Dean after just having responded to several questions with expressions of support for Dean -- but no other Democratic presidential candidate.

It would seem whoever designed this poll was seeking a pro-Dean result.



Here are some of the questions and the order in which they appear.

1) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush
is handling his job as president?

2.1) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The economy?

2.2) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The situation in Iraq?

2.3) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: Education?

2.4) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: Prescription drugs benefits for the elderly?

2.5) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The cost, availability, and coverage of health
insurance?

2.6) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The federal budget deficit?

2.7) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The US campaign against terrorism?

2.8) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: Medicare?

3) If the 2004 presidential election were being held today,
would you vote for George W. Bush, the Republican, or the
Democratic nominee?

4) If the 2004 presidential election were being held today, and
the candidates were George W. Bush, the Republican, and
Howard Dean, the Democrat, for whom would you vote?

5) Which one of these will be the single most important issue
in your vote for president next year: the U.S. campaign
against terrorism, the war in Iraq, the economy and jobs,
education, health care, Medicare and prescription drugs,
Social Security or something else?

6) Are you more likely to vote for a presidential candidate who
supported or opposed going to war with Iraq?

7) Are you more likely to vote for a presidential candidate who
wants to keep the recent federal tax cuts in place, or for a
candidate who wants to reduce or repeal the recent federal
tax cuts?

8) On another subject, all in all, considering the costs to the
United States versus the benefits to the United States, do you
think the war with Iraq was worth fighting, or not?

snip
#9-21 all questions about Bush.

22) Are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the choice of
Democratic candidates for president?

23) What's the most important issue to you in deciding your
vote for the Democratic candidate for president?

25) How much do you feel you know about Howard Dean's
personal qualities, such as experience and leadership ability -
a great deal, a good amount, only some, or hardly anything?

26) How much do you feel you know about Dean's positions
on specific issues - a great deal, a good amount, only some,
or hardly anything?

27) Who do you trust more to handle national security and the
war on terrorism: George W. Bush or Howard Dean?

28) Who do you trust more to handle domestic issues such
as Social Security, health care and education: George W.
Bush or Howard Dean?

29) Do you think George W. Bush's views on most issues are
too liberal for you, too conservative for you, or just about right?

30) Do you think Howard Dean's views on most issues are too
liberal for you, too conservative for you, or just about right?

31) How closely have you been following news about the
changes in the Medicare program that were voted on by
Congress last month?

32) Given what you know about them, do you approve or
disapprove of the Medicare changes voted on by Congress
last month?

33) On another subject, do you think a president should or
should not rely on his religious beliefs in making policy
decisions?

34) How much do you use the Internet to get news or
information about political candidates?

998) If the 2004 Democratic presidential primary or caucus in
your state were being held today, and the candidates were
Joseph Lieberman, Richard Gephardt, John Kerry, John
Edwards, Al Sharpton, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich, Carol
Moseley Braun, or Wesley Clark, for whom would you vote?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Push polls are a different specific thing
while this is a poorly run, biased poll it isn't a push poll. Those aren't polls, in the usual sense, at all. They are intended to plan negative ideas about one's opponent in a large group of people. That isn't what happened here.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Not cut and dry
but I think it does plant a negative image of the other dem candidates.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Push Polls are More Like ...
"Now that you know Howard Dean eats kittens, would you be more or less likely to vote for him in the 2004 election."
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I Explained In My Post Why I Use the Term Push Poll
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Well Then,
Call it slanted, call it a 'vacuum' poll if you wish. But this is in no way a push.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:40 AM
Original message
Thanks, I Just Changed The Thread Title
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. You are just using a specific negative example. The Principle is the Same
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. No it is not
Push polls involve calling huge numbers of people and planting negative ideas. They aren't polls at all.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for reposting your excellent, insightful analysis.
Every DU'er should write the ombudsman about the Post's flawed, biased polling. If we don't expose this, you can be sure they'll continue this trash - against us.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. It sound like the poll
recognizes the democratic contender is Dean......Thus the battle will be Dean vs *bush.....

Makes sense to me.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. "The democratic contender is Dean..." I don't recall him getting any votes
yet.

Sorry, neither you, nor the Washington Post's attempts to annoint Howard Brush Dean the Third - do not make it fait accompli.
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. How silly.......
Now I know the Primaries have not yet begun....

It's just a common statistical fact that Dean is the front runner....with a huge lead. It's reasonable to conduct a poll based on such stats.
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MariaS Donating Member (545 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. What a relief
The nominee is already chosen I don't have to worry about doing any of that peskey voting stuff.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Wait Christmas came and went already
and they already chose the nominee. No one ever woke me up that means :(. Oh its ok.
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Fattening him up for the slaughter!!
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not a push poll
This may be a biased poll, but it is not a push poll.

For example take this question from the poll:
2.6) Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W.
Bush is handling: The federal budget deficit?

If it was a push poll, it would be something like:
George W. Bush has created that largest federal budget deficit in the history of the United States. Does this make you more or less likely to vote for him?

See the difference? Push polling pushes negative ideas (and not always true ones--such as the McCain SC illegitimate child example).

Though, this may be a biased poll. I'll give you that.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
23. Thank You, I Changed The Thread Title Because You Are Correct
:)
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. And let's also remember that this is the paper that
Ran "positive" distortions of Bush's foreign policy (Libya buckled because of Bush Doctrine") and Dean's VT health care record (Dean achieved universal coverage) on its front page Saturday.

Even worse, on Friday they put a bush visiting wounded soldiers photo op on page A3 and "9-11 Could Have Been Prevented" on p. A24. Like all hoes, they're lazy and want the easy to report Dean-Bush matchup.

Now the poll:
Anyone who's taken statistics 101 knows you can't start a poll by asking questions about two people and then ask "general questions." People think the poll is only about two people.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thanks, John_H. The truth will set you free.
The poll sucks.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. Absolutely
As did CBS, ABC, Newsweek, CNN, USA Today, Gallup, Harris, NBC, The Wall Street Journal, Quinnipiac University, American Rsearch Group and Survey USA.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
11. Thats interesting
Here's a part I am suprised about,
"But Dean's strength against his rivals masks how little Democratic voters know about him. More than half of Democrats surveyed said they know "hardly anything" or "nothing" about Dean's experience, leadership capabilities or positions on the issues"
I read the article
Thats interesting to me personally, :shrug: sounds like name regonization is helping honest. I am NOT saying it is everything, but it seems to be a helping hand.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. It could be name recognition or ABB.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I think it could be honestly name recon
I dont mean to be a dick about it, but the same thing that supposely helped the earlier frontrunners is helping Dean, now do I think its all name regonization, hell no, but is it a factor, I think it is. Just my opinion honest.
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Killarney Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I understand what you're saying and name recognition definitely is
a big factor. But I also think ABB is a big factor. The poll could have said "would you vote for the Democratic candidate Joe Schmo or George Bush" and some people would have said Joe Schmo even though he isn't real, just because he is ABB. KWIM? But, I agree that name recognition is definitely pushing Dean ahead, too.

BTW, you're not being a dick at all! LOL. :)
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #20
30. I am real catious so I dont offend
With the way my temper can get, I best avoid being confrontial. Yeah ABB. Interesting IMO that name recon is helping out, because people say thats why Lieberman or Kerry were ahead early on, :shrug: talk about irony. I'll vote for Schmo against Bush :), what are his views on labor?
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
19. The method 'ERROR' has to be DESIGNED to Accent Deans Dominance.
Edited on Wed Dec-24-03 10:44 AM by WiseMen
The result bias that results from the "ORDER OF QUESTIONS" is so
well documented in the industry, it is inconcievable to me that the
the ERROR was accidental.

I an not saying that WP/ABC wants to boost Dean even more, but
someone in the reseach firm setting up the survey must have understood EFFECT and either "made it so" or "let it be."

The result is, of course, an even better STORY for WP/ABC since
the Dean nationwide surge is what they want to lead with.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. And how do you know the order of the questions?
Please tell.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. The provide in on web site. IT IS ALSO IN THE POST ABOVE.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Show one place either in the above post or the Wapo website
that states question #998 was asked after #1-#34.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Order is critcal. If different than posted it would be deceptive to post i
Edited on Wed Dec-24-03 11:10 AM by WiseMen

Any experience with professional survey methodology tells you that
order of question is absolutely critical to an analysis of the
result of the poll. If the order was different than the numbered
list they regularly post then it is an error not to say that.
If questions were really asked at random, then it is a critical
part of the methodology that should be stated.

The issue is not whether or not DEAN IS DOMINANT. He obviously
is all over the free and paid media. The question is: are the
poll results biased by methodology. That does appear to be the case
on present evidence. If you have some other data please post it.
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Nadienne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. try here
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac3/ContentServer?pagename=polls&interactive=n&nextstep=chooseQuestion&searchPollId=2003352&pollType=National&questCategoryType=n&newsearch=&questCategory=Variables.questCategory&keyword=Variables.keyword&pollDateRange=Variables.pollDateRange&startingRow=31

Also, when you click on the link to the results of the article, on the right side of the article is a link for Complete Poll Results. The link above is to the third/last page of the Complete poll results

(I apologize for the irritating width of this post. Not sure how to do it better...)
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'm curious as to why the last question is numbered 998.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. I assume it wasn't part of the regular questionnaire dev.

Compare the CBS results with these results and it should be
clear that there is reason for suspicion. Someone is trying to
rig something. I would expect that "someone" is acting on behalf of the powers that be.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
33. Your accusation is FALSE
Edited on Wed Dec-24-03 11:45 AM by unfrigginreal
Unfortunately, the questions asked and the order they were apparently given guaranteed that this poll would be a sort of "push poll" for Dean. The complete list of poll questions and their order are virtually assuredto inflate Dean's numbers.

Here is a link that shows the order the questions were asked.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/vault/stories/data122203.html



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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. This is a Methodological Issue. The Order Posted Biased to DEAN
If questions listed as 3 and 4 were asked before the question on
the democratic primary preference, then the BIASED RESULT SHOULD BE
EXPECTED. This is fundamental to survey methodology. Does not
reflect on Dean, but on the pollsters.

3. If the 2004 presidential election were being held today, would you vote for (George W. Bush, the Republican) or for (the Democratic nominee for president)?

Net Leaned Vote:

Democratic Other Neither Would No
Bush nominee (vol.) (vol.) not vote opin.
12/21/03 All 50 41 1 2 2 3
RV 51 41 2 2 1 3
10/29/03 All 48 47 1 1 1 2
RV 48 47 1 1 1 2
10/13/03 All 45 48 1 2 1 3
RV 45 49 1 2 1 3
9/13/03 49 44 1 2 2 2
8/11/03 48 40 2 1 1 7
4/30/03 53 40 * 2 1 3

4. How about if the candidates were (George W. Bush, the Republican), and (Howard Dean, the Democrat), for whom would you vote?

Net Leaned Vote:

Other Neither Would No
Bush Dean (vol.) (vol.) not vote opin.
12/21/03 All 55 37 1 3 2 2
RV 56 38 1 3 1 2
10/29/03 All 54 39 1 3 1 2
RV 53 39 * 3 1 3
9/13/03 56 36 1 3 2 2

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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. Dean mentioned once in entire poll.
Flawed, but hardly worthy of these conspiracy theories.
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Scott Lee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. Your seeing monsters where there are only shadows.
Merely mentioning Dean is not any proof of methodological bias. But I can see how it might be so, to you.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. This is much better but still a problem
By pairing Dean with Bush, which they did before they asked preference, they did mess up the results of that question. It would have been OK to use as a baseline but not as results after what they did.
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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Cheers Comrade. I was getting worried about the quality of Dean Supporter
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Agree that it would have been better had the head to head
question been asked after the horserace question. That's far different though than what the original poster and "the enlightened one" claimed in this thread. They were pushing the claim that all of the Dean questions came before #998, and had no qualms about pushing that without any corroborating evidence. Hardly new for tactics for either though.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yes.
obviously so.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
39. The basic results are the same
In virtually every other national poll. Dean has a commanding and growing lead. This despite the capture of Saddam and the "this is the end of the road for Dean" punditry and copious similarly themed prognostication threads at DU.

This sample shows the highest Dean preference of any poll I have seen, so I took it as an outlier. The unusual result could well be an artifact of the methods employed.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-03 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. No poll could get away with this.
Where is it documented that the preference question came last?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-03 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
42. From The Carpet Bagger
Thanx RV!

The Carpet Bagger Report takes an even closer look at the methodology and internals, and discovers that that big lead may no be all it's written up to be either. Their findings?

snip

"If you mention Dean's name six times, and never bring up any of the other Dem candidates' names, doesn't it stand to reason that Dean will be the name people recognize and connect with when it comes down to which Dem they support?"

Knowing that, it seems even more remarkable that with all those prompts, 69% of Democrats still fall into the somebody (if not anybody) but Dean column.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000992.html

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