What is the real story on Dean's military service?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

I've heard that Dean used some phony xrays and a story about a back injury to avoid going to Vietnam and then went to Colorado and became a ski bum.

Is that true? It seems like the kind of story that will make it hard for Dean to present a contrast with Bush.

Malingerer :vs: AWOL ? It doesn't seem like a winning matchup to me.

How are we going to peel away military and veteran voters away from Bush with a nominee with that kind of embarassing history?


And I just don't understand how someone could be in good enough shape to spend a winter skiing, but be physically unable to serve in the military. I've done both -- skiing is definately harder, and harder on your back. Could someone explain to me how this makes sense?

[Zomby Woof]

1. when you said this was about Dean's military service

I thought you were going to have a blank post or an "N/T". :-)

[PassingFair]

5. Yuk it up, Zomby

There are a whole lot of people who think the Vietnam war was a disaster, including Robert McNamara. Dean's back condition made him ineligible for service, skiing not withstanding. Bushy's whereabouts are not so easily explained.
By the way, I thought Clark really muffed his chance with this during the debates, he should have said "Visit www.awolbush.com" and come up with your own definition. Deserter, awol, missing in inaction......take your choice.

[Zomby Woof]

7. McNamara was a lying scumbag

He kept telling LBJ we were doing a bang-up job, and had nothing to worry about. He was a filthy scumsucker.

I have no love for the Vietnam War, and even less for rich boys like Dean who weaseled their way out of it.

My Dad is a Vietnam vet, so I take the issue as personally as anyone here. If I want to inject some levity into the discussion, I will do so. This place needs it.

[aquart]

14. Sorry, but I knew World War II vets who marched with their sons

Against the war in VietNam.

And not one of them was rich. Pure blue collar. Veterans of Anzio and the submarines of the South Pacific.

I am still angry about every name on that wall in Washington, every boy my age who DIED FOR NOTHING. Not to mention the ones who came back, in pieces even if you couldn't see it, who would only start to talk on the sixth beer, about friends walking beside them in a minefield who suddenly weren't alive or whole anymore.

But don't you dare tell me it was dishonorable to take any and every possible way to get out of that horror. Don't you dare.

The difference between all those draft dodgers and George Bush is that he supported the war. His family favored it and he went their way. But only if someone else died.

That's why we call those particular Republicans Chicken Hawks.

[clarknyc]

15. Good post. Thanks.

[Zomby Woof]

24. I was talking about Dean

Um, yeah, I KNOW most of the vets were blue collar, and I made it clear I am not an apologist for the war. You don't know my posting history, especially when it comes to history and war.

Dean came from a Republican family who was very much like the Bushes - sending off poor people to fight it. So yeah, it was dishonorable of him.

[Clark Can WIN]

28. There goes that damn Zomby Troof again..................

you rouge.

[Clark Can WIN]

30. I Dare.

because for every Bush, Dean, Rush or Cheney that deferred and bought their way out of Nam when they could have served, some other mothers child without those avenues had to go.

[PassingFair]

27. The filthy scumsucker

has just given interviews in which he admits the whole war was a disaster, and has admitted guilt for his role. Too tired to find link, but interview was recent. Read it in WSJ, I think...

[krkaufman]

8. All of them, and the media

Let's not hang that on Clark. I haven't heard any other candidate calling AWOL "AWOL", or have I missed it? (DK, maybe?)

I agree with Clark on this; he needs to stay out of it. He has enough on Bush based on Bush's current record to knock him out. He doesn't need to go back 30 years to an unprovable he-said/he-said issue.

[Anwen]

2. He had a note from his doctor

It was NOT phony. He did admit that he didn't want to be drafted -- but who the hell did??? The back problems excused him from being drafted, but the problems weren't so severe that he wasn't able to ski, etc.

[THUNDER HANDS]

4. wink wink

nudge, nudge, say no more.

[Eloriel]

16. Oh, your candidate has plenty of his own winks and nudges

But in Dean's case, this isn't one of his. He STILL has problems with his back, and limps a little after sitting for periods of time.

There is a huge difference between being able to march with 50-60 lbs. of weight, or needing to be reliably able to carry a fallen comrade, and skiing. I myself have had a lifetime of back problems and I can tell you that walking (just walking, not carrying "stuff") is a lot harder on me than skiing would be. In fact, roller skating would be easier for me than walking.

But, you know, go ahead and take cheap shots if you want. We'll keep talking about kerry's botox treatments. :evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Wasn't the doctor a friend or social acquaintance of the

senior Howard Dean?

Being excused from the draft through a note from an orthopedist who might have written the note as a favor to your dad looks a bit suspicious.

Going skiing immediately afterwards, when the military has just declared your bad back makes you ineligible for the draft, looks more than a bit suspicious.

If you took a week off from work because your back hurt and your boss found out you'd gone to Aspen to ski that week, I think we know what would happen to you.

Dean failed to address this issue straight on at the beginning, which adds to the suspicion.

And, for me, Dean's saying that he checked on his draft records before starting the campaign (to avoid any embarrassment) adds more suspicion. What did he think would be in there? Perhaps a note from the Army doctor saying "This guy had a note and X-rays but I didn't find anything wrong with his back."

Dean's not the best candidate to put up against Bush. This is one of the reasons.

[ibegurpard]

3. He's a draft dodger

That was the DU consensus LONG ago. Where you been?

[lurk_no_more]

9. Didn't dodge the draft

As much as sidestepped it!


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Clark Can WIN]

22. You mean skied around it. Pa dum pum.

Here is my problem with the whole Dean/Nam thing.

#1. Dean himself admitted that he "probably could have served." So even he admits the medical thing was an excuse.

#2. Because he did not go, some other kid was sent in, in his place.

#3. Most likely the kid that was sent in Dean's place was not a child of wealth and influence who didn't have the option of financing or feigning their way out. Did that kid die or come home forever scarred? Who knows.

#4. If you are going to dodge, admit it. Own it, don't dance around it. Stand up for your decision.

I don't see that this has been much of a problem for Dean in the Primaries but you can bet your ass it would be a snag in the GE. He should find a way to neutralize it now.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. I guess

I may very well have tried to get out of serving in Vietnam. I don't know if Dean did anything to be ashamed of but he certainly didn't do anything to be proud of either.

[killbotfactory]

6. He had a back condition, and brought medical records as required

by the draft board.

He was rejected.

Some people think he should have lied to the draft board to get into Vietnam and serve in a pointless, immoral war. Similar to the one Kerry supported in 2003. Others disagree.

[retyred]

10. His what?

LOL!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Metrix]

11. Found this article yesterday

I don't know if that has been posted.

Article Published: Thursday, January 29, 2004
Aspen recalls Dean's stint as '70s ski bum
Flashbacks range from dishwasher to 'loser'

By Steve Lipsher
Denver Post Mountain Bureau

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E29805%257E1921441,00.html

[genius]

12. I understand he misspelled the name of his back condition.

He is the only candidate who can't argue Bush's AWOL record. Kerry and Clark could best argue it.

[Eloriel]

17. There's absolutely NO comparison -- not even close --

between being AWOL and being deferred to 1Y by the Army itself. And while you may think that such a slam somehow helps your candidate, the person it helps is George W. Bush because it trivializes what was a very serious offense.

[Clark Can WIN]

23. Dean himself said he "probably could have served" so both he and bush

allowed someone less fortunate to take their place in Nam. This is the reality of the situation and the degree of offense is of little import to those who are now found on black granite.

[PassingFair]

18. and I understand

that you didn't even TRY to spell it: Spondylitis, sometimes spelled Spondylosis. Make sure you turn off the lights at night in that glass house of yours....

[stickdog]

19. Nice bs smear. Dean has a congential back condition.

Was Dean supposed to lie to Army about it and hope they didn't notice just so he could get his chance to commit atrocities and then come home to protest and throw away somebody else's medals like Kerry did?

Meanwhile, the Vietnam War is ancient history. And what Dean did was 100% understandable, unlike Bush's desertion or Kerry's strange plan to voluteer to fight in a bs war just so his war protests would get him more attention when he got back.

Where we need to contrast with Bush is on the Iraq War, and Kerry's on again off again support for the Iraq War removes Bush's biggest and most disgusting foreign policy disaster from our general election arsenal.

[DjTj]

20. You must have missed the memo: KERRY is the frontrunner now...

...bashing Dean for skiing instead of fighting in Vietnam is SOOO two weeks ago.

[Clark Can WIN]

25. DjTj (Warning, off topic post)

That's one hellova cute boy band you got goin' there. Love it :-)

Jeez, I never realized how much JE looke like him. spooooooookay.B-)

[incapsulated]

21. "he asked oh-so-innocently..."

lol.

"So, what's the dealio with this dang deal I heard tell about?"

[FubarFly]

26. Is this true? You mean you don't know? Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=89858#89909

--

Is there any reason why you are rehashing this? Is Dean making a comeback?

[Padraig18]

29. Try using the search function.

This has been exhaustively discussed here at DU during the time you have been a member.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moderator]

33. Locking

8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim. Allegedly "innocent" questions which are actually an underhanded effort to spread rumors are not allowed. If you really need to know the answer to your question, try Google.


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