Are any Kerry supporters discouraged at the empty promises?

[Hep]

Yes I can provide you with health care, stronger homeland defense, AND tax cuts.

Uh, OK!

[mikehiggins]

1. No, they are not.

This is how professional politicians win elections.

Its as simple as that.

[Hep]

3. Tell 'em what they want to hear

Like Read My Lips. Oh well. I'm not having kids, so what do I care that the next three generations will bear the burden?

[LuminousX]

2. They live in a fantasy land

[creativelcro]

4. Obviously. more and more.

With the "it's all Tenet's fault" he's also showed one more time that is is a completely corrupt insider.

[isbister]

13. ahem

Just three questions to ask yourself:

1) How many ongoing investigations are there against the bush administration and/or the republican leadership?

2) Of those, how many involve Tenet in one way or another?

3) If Tenet were to step down tomorrow, would bush's choice of scapegoats be increased or decreased?

[creativelcro]

29. Tenet stepping down would mean he's the scapegoat

What's your point? GW & C would say forever that it was Tenet's fault. What other scapegoat do they need ? After he's gone anything can be blamed on him...

[isbister]

5. I love the job my Senator has done

and eagerly look forward to his bringing sanity and honesty back to the Presidency of the United States of America.

May every republican lose their seat in Congress.

[Hep]

8. Now is the time to pay attention to that congress thing

Because the right wing has guaranteed themselves the house for the next decade.

[creativelcro]

31. I think Kerry, my senator is

A SPINELESS IDIOT and a CORRUPT POLITICIAN.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. well

With a Republican House and Senate I think it would be difficult for ANY candidate to deliver on what they promise.

Unless they're only promising to oust Bush, in which case, that's the only thing I really want.

[Hep]

10. OK, so you don't want actual change

You just want Bush out. Interesting. Thanks for the update.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. Yeah, getting rid of Bush is just window dressing

:eyes:

Wake up. If the GOP controlls the House and Senate, THEY pass all the legislation. All a Dem president can do is wield a veto pen.

[Hep]

18. My point exactly

And that's all Kerry's term will be. Dean's the only one actively fighting for our entire party. And your assertion that all a president can do is wield a pen is FALSE. But not surprising from some camps, because Kerry wasn't much of a bill writer, was he? Kerry's all about reacting based on what serves HIM best. It's never been about what serves the country best.

Dean would wield a pen, but he would use it to INTRODUCE bills, not just veto them.

[Monte Carlo]

7. It would seem not.

We only need to utilize our health care dollars better, cut the profiteering and fat out of military contracts, and reverse the tax cuts - the majority of the lost revenue - to those who are in the upper brackets. What's the problem?

[liberalnurse]

9. Kerry talks the talk alright but

he never clearly articulates "how" he will accomplish his plans. He uses trigger, lead-in phrases without following with substance. I see that is a major difference with him and Dean. Dean gives the entire explanation, he educates the crowd. Kerry panders.

[creativelcro]

32. Yes, and that drives me crazy here in MA

He's f***ing preaching all the time with platitudes. No information out of that hole he has in his face...

[Loonman]

11. All politicians say stuff like that

Even Dean.

[Hep]

19. Not true

Dean has said that he can give these things, but it might not be easy, and itmight come at some cost.

[11 Bravo]

14. No, I'm not discouraged, but

while you're asking such unbiased and non-leading questions, let me also assure you that I have stopped beating my wife and masturbating in public.

[Hep]

20. No need to get snippy!

Unless you posted the same to other non biased and non leading thread topics with similar subject lines.

[Trajan]

15. A disingenuous argument ....

SURELY: .... if a person had the support of congress AND the people: .. he could do nearly anything (good OR bad) ...

To say "I can provide you with health care, stronger homeland defense AND 'Tax cuts'" ... is to express a PLAN to do so ...

What is wrong with WANTING to do this ? ....

EVERYONE of these endeavors is worthy in its own right, and those who promote them should be APPLAUDED for their clear thinking ...

IF Kerry OR Clark OR Edwards OR Sharpton OR Dean OR Liebermann OR Kucinich ...: If EITHER of them had such a plan, AND had the congressional impetus to pass the legislation to implement such ideas, then we would HAVE these things ...

Lets face it: .. the money EXISTS to provide Health Care, BETTER security AND 'tax cuts for families' ... it only needs the WILL of a leader and the WILL of congress to change the priorities of the state to make it real ...

FIRST: ... a leader must decide to establish such a plan, and develop the will to see it through ... Kerry has at least done this ...

It is disingenuous to lambaste Kerry for having such an agenda, because nearly ALL the Democratic Candidates have similar items on their agenda, and HAVE have an equal chance of getting thiers passed with an opposition congress ...

Let's be real ...

BTW: .. I lean Clark, but will vote for ANY Democratic candidate ... Because I BELIEVE in the party philosophy, NOT because I 'like' a particular candidate ...

I am NOT a Deanocrat, a Kerrycrat, a Dennicrat OR a Wesleycrat ....

I am a Democrat ... and will vote thusly ....

[Hep]

21. What IS wrong with wanting to do this?

I don't know. If you elect me, I'll spread wings and fly.

[Trajan]

23. What makes you think WE, as a nation ..

Want you to grow wings and fly ? ..

I dont think Ill be voting for you ..

In fact: ... if THAT were your agenda, I would consider asking the party to eject you ... and perhaps: have you committed ...

But that is another thread: .. isnt it ? ..

[Hep]

26. Well

Wanting to do things and being able to do things are two different horses, right? Watch as my point becomes clear.

The difference between what Kucinich wants and what is possible is far more vast than it is for Kerry, and that's why D's don't vote for Kucinich. But for Kerry, it still amounts to empty promises. And we won't feel the burn until after his first term when the RW kicks our asses.

[Trajan]

30. SO many problems with this line of thinking ...

Kucinich's agenda has NOT caught fire, but it doesnt make his agenda ant LESS worthy for its scope .. His idealism is admirable ...

He has .... V I S I O N .... You should commend him for his far ranging vision .. not CONDEMNING him ...

And: .. the RW is gonna kick our asses ? ...

Are they ? ...

Well: .. why dont we just give up now, given this is already a fait accompli ..

yeah: ... lets just UP and leave: .. and let the damned RW have their way ...

Sheeeesh ....

[sangh0]

33. Get with the program Trajan

The difference between what Kucinich wants and what is possible is far more vast than it is for Kerry, and that's why D's don't vote for Kucinich

DK can't get support from his fellow Dems, so that means DK is more likely to achieve his goals. We all know support from Dems is a deal-breaker

[Trajan]

37. IF the Democratic electorate BELIEVED in Kucinich's 'vision' ..

They would vote for him ...

His agenda has apparently failed to spark the imagination of his fellow party members in a big way ...

So be it: ... This is how the system works ... ONE nominee, the rest also rans ...

We have EIGHT candidates contending for the Democratic Party nomination: .. EACH has a more-or-less traditional set of policy initiatives, ... ALL have a more-or-less EQUAL chance of passing their 'vision' into law against a mean spirited congress ...

Therefore: .. WHAT is the POINT of castigating ONE candidate for HIS agenda, which more-or-less MIMICS that of his primary opponents ? ..

[Hep]

34. If idealism is admirable when so much is at stake, we're screwed.

Kucinich's vision is fine. Whatever. But we need not elect people based on their idealism. Because the level of their idealism is INVERSELY PROPORTIONAL to their ability to achieve their ideals.

Yes, after four years of NOTHING, the RW will kick our asses. And not just because they will mobilize their base, but because Kerry will lose more D's. Bank on it. Kerry wins in November, by 2006 watch the list of I's grow. That's bad, BTW.

There isd an alternative. But you're not interested.

[Trajan]

36. Ok .. Ill bite ..

WHAT is the alternative ? ..

[sangh0]

16. Links?

When has Kerry said "I can provide you with health care, stronger homeland defense, AND tax cuts"?

[D G]

17. Not discouraged - thanks for your concern.

Kerry's one of several Democrats in the running who would be a great president and turn our country around. And he can win the general election.

[Hep]

22. LOL

Whether or not he can win I don't know. I believe many can win. Will he turn the country around? It's easy enough to claim now, considering no one will hold you to your prediction. But I seriously doubt he'll turn anything around.

[Trajan]

24. Your personal cynicism ...

does NOT reflect the desires of the electorate ...

WHO the hell cares about your ego-need to demand ALL ideas have complete support of a surly congress ? ...

Get a grip ...

[Hep]

27. The desires of the electorate?

It's not that I don't DESIRE for Kerry to be a good president. I just don't see any evidence that he will be. It's not in his congressional record, and it hasn't been in his campaign, so where is this idea coming from?

ego-need? What the hell is that?

[Duder]

25. Judging by the exit polls...

The majority of Kerry supporters are voters that decided at the last minute to vote for him.
In other words, the most apathetic and ill informed voters.

[Hep]

28. Amen to that.

n/t

[Trajan]

35. Chuckles ...

"In other words, the most apathetic and ill informed voters." ...

So: ... if these "Kerry voters" switched to support YOUR choice of candidate, would they THEN become 'informed' and 'pathetic' ? ...

We are talkin about your 'fellow democrats' here .. right ? ..

Are you intending to insult your fellow party members ? ...

are ALL Kerry supporters 'illinformed and apathetic' ? .. or just the latecomers ? ..

WHEN was the cutoff date ? ...

[Moderator]

38. Locking....pure flamebait

n/t