"This Divided State" documentary by Michael Moore

[NVMojo]

well, I'm going to have to order this one as I followed this story from neighboring northern Nevada. We had a similar incident at UNR in Reno when he came to town near the same time, just before the 04 election ...I had no idea a documentary was made about the Utah college incident. Gotta order this. Reality bites ...in America when the Republicans get together to shut down speech!


-----------------------------------------

September 9, 2005


This Divided State (DVD)

BUZZFLASH REVIEWS

September 9, 2005

We didn't think a documentary about a pre-2004 election appearance by Michael Moore at a state college in Utah would be so riveting and provocative, but boy were we wrong. This is a film that reveals an American passion play by using a real event to symbolize the two major warring factions in the United States today.

Basically, three young Utah filmmakers were on hand as a furious debate was unleashed in a conservative Utah town, home to Utah Valley State College, when Moore was invited to appear, with his fee paid by the proceeds from tickets sold to students. A self-righteous Mormon Republican leads a virulent campaign to stop Moore from speaking on the basis that he doesn't represent "the values" of the "community."

On the other side, students and professors champion Moore's appearance as a free speech issue -- and remain adamant about supporting the right of anyone to talk at a college in a democracy. But the GOP "family values" bulldog becomes rabid and launches a crusade to halt Moore's appearance, going so far as to file a lawsuit against the two student leaders who proposed the event (and who have major roles as the documentary unfolds).

more on the review here ...

http://www.buzzflash.com/reviews/05/09/rev05086.html

[AirForceof1]

1. Michael Moore

I will be honest I hate Michael Moore with a passion, but as far as I can tell in this case the local Republican's went about this the wrong way, they should have simply gotten a right-wing speaker to balance the load of BS that Moore spews with their brand of BS. Or simply protested him as is their right.

[Prodemsouth]

2. Boy he must really make your side get your panties in a wad,

aayy Freeper. We know you come over here when your monkey is up shit creek and boy is he up shit creek. Moore's research is well documented and correct. As Jack so eloquently put it: you just can't handle the truth. That goes for all you miserable idiots- I hope America finds out about Bush and attacks anyone with a W sticker. Conservatives will be hunted! They didn't do a good job getting rid of you guys after you started the Great Depression. Roosevelt was too soft on you guys esp Nazi collaborator Prescott Bush. I live in a idiot repug area in GA, I noticed a sharp decline in W stickers. At least they are smart enough to know to peel those idiot indicators off their SUVs, PU's Lexus Mercedes, etc.

[BL611]

5. Sigh...

You know I rarely post here anymore because of exactly this. People just may dislike Moore not because their "undercover freepers", but because they have actual conviction in their liberal beliefs, and would rather take advantage of having the truth on their side instead of resorting to the crude propaganda of the other side, just a thought. I'll stick around for a few minutes while you all flame me.....

[Prodemsouth]

6. I dont even bother with defeatist elitist anymore. All you can do is

sigh...about everything. We are all so beneath you. last you will hear from me- Defeatist elitist are lower than freepers to me. Read the guys god damn post. He is a freeper. "A right wing speaker to balance the BS" Glad you don't post here anymore the fewer of your type the better. Defeatist elitist Liberals who attack liberals suck shit out of ass.

[BL611]

10. Exactly

I'm beneth YOU (and evidently the republicans) because I don't think we need to esort to propaganda and I'M the elitist, what else could I do but sigh?

[MelissaB]

11. Please point out the propaganda.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'd really like to know what you consider propaganda coming from MM.

[Prodemsouth]

16. He is the type that thinks: we are behaving like them and are just

as bad when we fight back. That is the case if he really is a liberal which I am now doubting because the first post I responded to is obviously a Freeper. So he is defending a freeper. Giving him the benefit of the doubt because there are way to many liberals who feel they have to attack our side when we are being attacked by freepers and the like. They go into attack mode when we fight back. Moore is not doing propaganda and he knows it. I am responding to you because I will not respond to him anymore. Or he could be a bomb dropper who has not been caught yet. They all show up when their guy is in trouble.

[NVMojo]

36. Folks, this documentary, was filmed with the assistance of the 2 kids

who were sued by the Freepers! Quit stopping the significance of that this means by drifting off into Michael Moore bashing, Keerhist! Get back to the topic, please!

[MelissaB]

7. Please clarify how Michael Moore's "propoganda"

is not the truth. I'm interested in your answer.

[BL611]

12. Give it a google...

There are many in depth refutations of Moore's work not just from right wingers, but non partisan and left wing sites (one good one that comes to mind is a couple of articles by Kevin Mattson in Dissent last year).

[MelissaB]

Enlighten me, please.

His books are well documented. I asked you for a point of propaganda and you still haven't listed one.

[BL611]

17. Here's a good article

From Dissent a democratic socialist journal- http://www.dissentmagazine.org/menutest/archives/2003/sp03/mattson.htm

If you want actual refutations of his book citations again google works wonders

[BL611]

20. Here's from non partisan spinsanity

http://www.spinsanity.org/topics#MichaelMoore

[MelissaB]

22. EVERY single link I've click on goes to thier own site

or Phily.com where the article isn't available.

[BL611]

26. Are you talking about dissent or spinsanity?

[MelissaB]

27. spinsanity

I clicked on the election posts.

[MelissaB]

21. If you check out his web page those "refutations" have been refuted. n/t

BTW, what the heck is dissent magazine?

[BL611]

24. Dissent is

a journal started in the 50's by Irving Howe one of the founders of Democratic socialists of America, currently its ideology tends to drift toward communitarian liberalism, not exactly RW.

There are also refutations to moore's refutations, you could go around and around for days with it, which is why I gave a link to an article more concerned with his overall message then the context of specific citations, the point being that their are many on the left that are highly critical of Moore.

[MelissaB]

25. I looked around at both links you posted and read some.

I've never seen those two sites before.

[BL611]

28. Dissent is a great magazine

obviously its staunchly left, but makes an effort to cut through the dogma of the right & left, which gets back to my original point that I was attacked as being a "defeatist elitist" for-that if you have the truth on your side you don't have resort to manichean hubris to make your point.

[Prodemsouth]

30. The guy in Dissent basically is not refutting Moore but attacking

his tactics. Dissent is a old mag full of bitter "has been or never where" lefties. Worn out old defeatist elitist.

[BL611]

31. Huh?

I thought you were done with me???

BTW Kevin Mattson is an optimistic 30 something who also writes for American Prospect, the Nation, and just about every other left wing publication on this planet, now who sounds like the freeper?

[Prodemsouth]

32. I was responding to MB's post not yours..Look at the respond

links, defeatist.

[BL611]

33. I'm sorry

I stand corrected, you can go back to ignoring me now....

[Prodemsouth]

38. Melissa there are other reasons why Moore is hated by quite

a few leftist esp those that would write for Dissent. Moore represents the progressive message moving to new mediums. Movies TV Radio. Popular media forms were our message needs to go- it gets out out to more people. Most of these people are writers and they hate that- it does mean less money for many of them. Many of them would have the left's communication remain in obscure sections of the library or a off beat Book Store. Their long winded essays are becoming a thing of the past thanks to people like Moore and AAR. And some of it (despite their denials) is just pure old professional jealously, because Moore is successful.

[thebigidea]

8. gee, what a tragic loss for all of us.

[Q]

13. Go ahead and defend blind hatred if you so desire...

...but the poster you're defending didn't present an argument as to why he hated Moore...he's simply spreading hate for the sake of hate.

His post didn't contain 'truth'...just more of the shit we've seen for years from the Right. And please note that the poster didn't even bother to say WHY he thinks Moore is a liar.

A 'liberal' doesn't 'hate' out of conviction. You seem very confused...

[MelissaB]

14. Neither of these posters are giving an example.

Go figure. :shrug:

[Outer_Limit]

15. I agree with a lot of the conclusions Moore draws however

I do think he does get loose with the facts and distorts a bit to reach his points.

[Prodemsouth]

18. Please give examples.

n/t

[Outer_Limit]

29. I was watching a meeting of some activists on a local public access

channel. This was a couple of years ago so my memory of it is a bit faded. One of the organizers, who is well known in the activist circle (can't remember his name but he is always on the protests shown on CSPAN) had mentioned how one of the 2000 inaugural protests he organized had shown up in Fahrenhiet 9/11.

At the beginning of the movie when Moore mentions that the motorcade stops and then speeds up and drives away before a "larger riot" ensues. The protest organizer sorta laughs and says that Moore distorted his protest and said that the motorcade stop and waited, and eventually sped up past them because the motorcade was approaching a large block of protesters with signs and the administration did not want them on tv cameras for a significant portion of time, especially on a live inauguration. It had to do with public image, and not any threat of riots, as Moore implied.

I think it goes to the same idea of how the administration screened all the questioners at his campaign events in 2004.

I still liked the movie though. And agree with the majority of the points Moore made.

[AirForceof1]

19. Reason #1

This is the first reason I don't like mikey, and also the main reason if you want to prove a point to play fast and loose just point out the evidence and let me decide. But that doesn't make for an entertaining movie.

The second reason I hate him is how he plays himself off as a working stiff...I haven't meet and working stiff with his bank account, Hell I am sick of all of the celebrity's playing themselves off a working stiffs, I feel the same about politicians who do it.

And the biggest reason I hate him is I dint like how he portrays the military in his movies, we seem to be either cold blooded killers or poor lost children who dint know right from wrong.

But I guess this doesn't matter because after all I am a Freeper.

[Prodemsouth]

23. You provided no proof that Moore is using Bs as you called

it. Before you make the claim Moore hates the military- watch his movies. F911 was not anti military, it did take on civilian commanders. I am a veteran, I was not offended. He may have more money now but he did grow up in a working class environment. You still have provided no proof of being fast and loose with the evidence. You are a poor lost child if you believe this rah rah flag waving shit that is not real patriotism. We have been through this before in our history with a hard lesson, thanks to your kind I guess we will have to learn the same fucking lesson all over again. How many people have to die, how much wreckage has to occur, before you people realize it is bullshit made to keep you in line. If you are a freeper you are at best a poor lost child- that is about as polite as I can make it.

[me b zola]

34. MM wasn't a celebrity when he made "Roger & Me"

I would venture to guess that his bank account wasn't very fat at that time, either. So if a working class stiff speaks out on behalf of other working class stiffs and then becomes wealthy should he no longer be allowed to speak out? Does his voice become irrelevant once he has some money? Hmmmm.

Lou Dobbs, a conservative, speaks out for workers and the middle class. Have you checked his bank account? Do you know his net worth? Does this contrast matter to you?


Both my husband & I have served in the military. MM's portrayal of the military doesn't bother me. We need more people to stand up to lawmakers who support aggressive, preemptive wars and ask why their children aren't serving. There would be a whole lot less killing going on if the people who vote for war would be required to place their children on the front lines.

[NVMojo]

37. you couldn't be more further from the truth. You have not watched

Farenheit 9-11. I can't believe you missed the point. And when he was in Reno last year, he read from his book that was letters to him from soldiers in Iraq. Those letters tore your heart out and people were crying in the audience. No disrespect was shown there AT ALL to the people serving in our military! He disrespects the filthy as rich using our poor and trusting to fight their corporate for-profit wars! So do I! Wake up or go to where you feel more loved for your hateful views.

[Q]

39. Unlike most of the Bush administration...

...Moore EARNED his money. Bush's first oil venture was financed by bin Laden's brother in law and Cheney has been sucking off the government contractor teat for decades. Compared to George and Dick...Moore is the only 'self-made' man among them. Moore didn't start out rich and I'm surprised that you think that making money is some kind of sin.

George and Dick were AWOL as terrorists attacked America on 9/11, allowed bin Laden to escape and sent troops off to a foreign land to die for a lie. Is THIS what you call 'supporting the troops'?

No one is asking you to like Moore. But the least you could do is a bit of research to back up your claims.

[thebigidea]

3. of all the things to hate these days, you pick a doughy guy with a camera?

[bee]

4. are you a real freeper? Or do you just play one on TV....

:popcorn:

edit to add. *good natured ribbing intended*

[MelissaB]

9. Well, I guess it kinda hard to "balance" the truth.

[NVMojo]

35. you have a right to your opinion but I totally enjoyed watching him

in Reno in person last year! What energy! And he even had the main guy from Rage Against the Machine with him. He can hold an audience ...the Lawlor Events Center was jammed!