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Grounds to impeach based on New Orleans: read this

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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:04 PM
Original message
Grounds to impeach based on New Orleans: read this
Well, well. Look at these arguments put forward for impeaching Clinton. The same could clearly be applied to Bush, who should be held responsible for failing to protect the people of New Orleans and failing to be sure that FEMA and others did their jobs. The fact that we still have thousands in the convention center with no food or water six days after the hurricane is just one example of the damning evidence that the federal govt -- of which Bush is in charge -- had a clear dereliction of duty. Comments?


From MIssing Grounds for Impeachment (Constitution Society)
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/impeach_grounds.htm

...the grounds for impeachment specified in the Constitution at Art. II Sec. 4, "Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors", is not limited to criminal offenses against which there are laws. The phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors", as explained by Ann Coulter in her recent book entitled High Crimes and Misdemeanors, is a term of art that includes many offenses that are not criminally or civilly actionable but are, nevertheless, grounds for impeachment and removal from office. Many of those grounds survive today only in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and include such things as dereliction of duty, moral turpitude, and conduct unbecoming which can adversely affect good order and discipline and bring discredit to the person, his office, his organization, and his country.

The duties of the president are provided in Art. II Sec. 1 Cl. 8, to "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States" and to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" to the best of his ability. He is ultimately responsible for any failures of his subordinates or for their violations of the Constitution and the rights of persons committed by them. It is not necessary to be able to prove that such failures or violations occurred at his instigation or with his knowledge, to be able, in Starr's words, to lay them at the feet of the president. It is sufficient to show, on the preponderance of evidence, that the president was aware of misconduct on the part of his subordinates, and failed to do all he could to remedy the misconduct, including termination and prosecution of the subordinate and compensation for his victims or their heirs. His subordinates include everyone in the executive branch, and their agents and contractors. It is not limited to those over whom he has direct supervision. And he is not protected by "plausible deniability". He is legally responsible for knowing what everyone in the executive branch is doing.

Some may object that under English law, from which we derive the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors", things like dereliction of duty and moral turpitude were common law crimes, and that by U.S. v. Hudson (7 Cranch 32) we don't have common law crimes under U.S. law. It doesn't matter. If an official, any official, simply refuses to do his job, his refusal is not a ground for criminal prosecution or civil action, other than a writ of mandamus, but if he continues to refuse, then removal from office need not wait for the next election.

We can all provide a litany of offenses against the Constitution and against the rights of persons committed by federal officials and their agents which have not been adequately investigated or remedied. The massacre at Waco, the assault at Ruby Ridge, and many, many other illegal or excessive assaults by federal agents, and the failure of the president to take action against the offenders, is more than enough to justify impeachment and removal from office on grounds of dereliction of duty. To these we could add the many suspicious incidents that indicate covered up crimes by federal agents, including the deaths of Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Jim McDougal, and others knowledgeable of wrongdoing by the president...

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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't you need Congressional support for this?
They're as bad as * is.
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Drum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. multiple counts of dereliction of duty nt
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Pallas180 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. start badgering the judicial committee where impeachment starts
and all members of congress.


IDENTIFY YOUR CONRESS CRITTER http://www.visi.com/juan/congress /
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. No, this doesn't wash.
It didn't wash under Clinton's term, and it doesn't wash now. Incompetence is not an impeachable offense. If you could prove willful dereliction of duty, it might be different. Under this Coulterian argument, every President since Washington could be impeached.
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FlaGranny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Is there any legal way to get rid of the
incompetent criminals? Today I was wishing we could ask for a recall, but I don't believe that can be done either.

If any of these idiots from FEMA and Homeland Security, Bush, Rumsfield, and the whole crew had a drop of integrity, they would all offer their resignations. They are not capable of doing anything helpful or constructive.
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Lone_Wolf_Moderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. The FEMA people can be fired, I think.
Whoever's in charge needs to be fired. Bush can't suffer politically, except in terms of his legacy.

Either way, the government fucked up big time.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
19. while NOLA drowned, here's what *Co did


and:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050901/pl_afp/usweatherbushpolitics_050901185354

excerpt:

Some critics zeroed in on a photograph of Bush receiving a gift guitar from a country singer on Tuesday -- the same day that officials in areas battered by Katrina said they expected the death toll to run in the hundreds.

"The bottom line is he needs to appear much more involved, much more hands on, much more in touch with the reality on the ground. He certainly should not be being photographed with a guitar," said a Republican congressional aide.

The aide, who requested anonymity to avoid political reprisals, said Bush could have given made a formal address to the nation, summoned the US Congress to act, or declared martial law in New Orleans.

Other critics took issue with his four-week stay on his Texas ranch, when he was frequently photographed biking on the property.

...more...
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longship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Constitution Society is a wacko group.
Right wingers, all of them.

Don't you love all the cited excesses? Waco "massacre", Ruby Ridge, Vince Foster, Ron Brown, Jim McDougal, etc. Does anybody think that a Democrat would cite these as impeachable offenses?

I see tin foil hats.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. I'm not a Dem...
and Ruby Ridge has always disturbed me. But that wasn't during Clinton's watch. It was during Poppy Bush's. A "Kindler, gentler" kind of fascism.

Not an impeachable offense, perhaps, but bad.

No one who remembers Jim Jones wonders why they went into Waco they way they did. Sure, they fucked up, but no matter where they stepped, they would've stepped in shit.

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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've read the other replies
And agree with them that this argument won't wash.

At best, it can be turned on the RW nutcases who originally asserted it, and it would be fun to watch tem hem and haw and try to find a distinction.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
22. The non-nuance people try to find a distinction?
Oh, never mind, flip flopping is not their weak point, that is the smear they paint on their opponents. It's OK for them to flip flop.
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bee Donating Member (894 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Crimes against humanity
seems more appropriate for NOLA.
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astonamous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Crimes against humanity for NOLA and Iraq and...
No wonder he wanted Americans to be exempt from the World Court.
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Jane Eyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
8. Presumably, Bush can't be sued by an individual for not doing his job
Perhaps someone can help me with this. I believe that there is a statute of some kind stating that the president cannot be sued by an individual citizen for something that he did as president. In other words, the citizens who suffered in New Orleans are not able to seek a remedy in court for the problems caused by Bush's criminal negligence. Is this correct?
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Whoa! I had no idea!
Thanks for posting this!
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. Recommended & kick
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. Are you really that interested in having a President Cheney?
We have to elect Democrats in 06.
We need to take back the House AND the Senate.
We then need to indict Cheney and have him resign and then impeach Bush.
Bush may try to appoint a VP, but without a majority in the house and senate, he can't select a replacement as corrupt as himself and Cheney.

If there is a better way, post it. I am interested in any options.

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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Bush should be impeached w/o regard to VP
The time is now.

Besides, it's not merely because Bush is a Republican that he is bad, it's how awful a commander in chief he is.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-05-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. incompetence vs. evil
I think Bush is bad because he is both incompetent and evil. I also think those who are in the line of succession may not be as incompetent, but are just as evil. I don't want to replace one evil man with another evil man.

You are right as far as Republican not being the same as evil, but those neo-cons and PNAC'ers who surround Bush have bad plans for us as a planet.

His Republican congress will not remove him from office. We have to get a congress that will.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. what about.... "conduct unbecoming which can adversely affect...
good order and discipline and bring discredit to the person, his office, his organization,and his country."

Bush sure fits that part!!!!
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
17. I don't give a crap what Ann Coulter says about anything.
Not even to use her own words against her. She's not worth the effort.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Yeah, I agree
Ann Couler is notorious for making crap up and mis-referencing her sources. I would hope there is better backing for this argument than "Ann Coulter said so".
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