There is Such a Thing as “Too Late”

[Q]

Published on Friday, August 19, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
There is Such a Thing as “Too Late”
by Ray McGovern

"...Ignore. That’s what the vast majority of Germans did in the 1930s as Hitler curtailed civil liberties and launched aggressive wars. I was born in August 1939, a week before Hitler sent German tanks into Poland to start World War II. I have studied that crucial time in some detail. And during the five years I served in Germany I had occasion to ask all manner of people how it could possibly be that, highly educated and cultured as they were, the Germans for the most part could simply ignore. Why was it that the institutional churches, Catholic and Evangelical Lutheran, could not find their voice? Why was it that so few spoke out? A few did...and they provide good example for us today. Lutheran Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer spoke out, plotted against Hitler, and was executed. Also executed was a more obscure but equally courageous professor from the University of Berlin, Albrecht Haushofer.

Like Bonhoeffer, Haushofer was arrested for speaking out. The SS prison guards were required to extract a confession from prisoners before they were hanged or shot, but Haushofer refused. When they removed his body, though, a paper fell out of his pocket. It was his admission of guilt written in the form of a sonnet:

Schuld
...schuldig bin ich Anders als Ihr denkt.
Ich musste früher meine Pflicht erkennen;
Ich musste schärfer Unheil Unheil nennen;
Mein Urteil habe ich zu lang gelenkt...
Ich habe gewarnt,
Aber nicht genug, und klar;
Und heute weiß ich, was ich schuldig war.


Guilt
I am guilty,
But not in the way you think.
I should have earlier recognized my duty;
I should have more sharply called evil evil;
I reined in my judgment too long.
I did warn,
But not enough, and clear;
And today I know what I was guilty of.


At Riverside Church 22 years later, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. began by quoting a statement by Clergy and Laymen Concerned About Vietnam: “A time comes when silence is betrayal.” Dr. King added, “That time has come for us in relation to Vietnam.”

And that time has come for us in relation to Iraq. But where are the Clergy and Laymen Concerned About Iraq? Where are the successors to Dr. King, to Bonhoeffer, to Professor Haushofer? “There is only us,” says Annie Dillard, and she is right of course. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. Dr. King was typically direct: “We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision, but we must speak....there is such a thing as being too late....Life often leaves us standing bare, naked, and dejected with lost opportunity....Over the bleached bones of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: “Too late.”

------------------
Ray McGovern works for Tell the Word, the publishing arm of the ecumenical Church of the Saviour in Washington, DC, and is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. On Wednesday, he arrived home in Arlington, VA, after five days in Crawford, and shared these remarks with 300 neighbors at the close of a candlelight observance in honor of Cindy Sheehan.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0819-33.htm

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[welshTerrier2]

2. some may hold hope ...

that the tyranny of the neo-cons is nearing an end ...

but even that should not lessen our efforts ... this struggle is not a TV show ...

and beyond the current regime, the next regime will seize power ... we have to be fighting now to define its direction ...

[classof56]

3. Chilling words indeed. I'm nominating and bookmarking.

We must not stand back and wait until it is too late.

Tired Old Cynic

[babylonsister]

4. "...silence is betrayal". Hear that, shrub? nt

[il_lilac]

5. wow

I've been wondering if we would get a sign when "too late" arrives. When we attack another country? When 10,000 of our brave men and women have died? When all of our rights are gone for the safety of our nation? Will it pass silently? Will it come and go with a bang? Or has it already...?

[Totally Committed]

6. I agree with the OP

Now, what do we do about it?

I can only speak for myself, but it seems like my "voice" (when expressed -- and, trust me, I express it often), most often falls on dead ears. And, in "talking" here with all of you, I feel I am heard, but also "preaching to the choir". To paraphrase the well-known saying "There are none so deaf as those who will not hear."

How do we get heard? How do we wake up the sleeping "sheeple"? How do we change the body politic so that what is truly right comes to be? How? I've spent most of my adult life trying to figure this out.

I write e-mails.

I write LTTE's.

I contribute to causes I believe in.

I phone my electeds when I have an issue I feel is important.

I vote.

I make sure others vote.

I speak out on the issues.

I educate myself.

I try and educate others.

Maybe in, shall we say, the "flower of maturity", I have lost the ability to strategize dispassionately. It's all too emotional at this point, too "from the gut". I may not live to see the day we straighten this whole mess out, but I surely would love to go down swinging! So, if you have a plan, please share it.

I'm willing to believe it's not "too late" until we stop fighting. Am I wrong?

TC

[Burried News]

21. Very good post. Thanks for your service to America.

Sincerely BN

[tavalon]

7. Who is our Martin Luther King, Jr.?

A youth minister from California.

And the bloggers.

[Beam Me Up]

8. We are.

As the original post states: It is up to us.

It may be that the time for charismatic leaders has past. We can no longer rely upon the strength of others to carry us through. Cindy Sheehan is the model now, one woman who has every right in the world to question power. And we stand with her and ask in one voice.

[Pithy Cherub]

9. Excellent. Joe Wilson also uses the quote

about silence/neutrality from Dante in the very first pages of his book, "The Politics of Truth."

Indeed, there is only us...

[are_we_united_yet]

10. On point as usual Q

nominated

[Burried News]

11. I was alive when MLK gave these speeches. I read the

newspapers alot then and had been to VN and I did not know the content of his speeches. Media's fault - alittle. My fault - mostly.

It is never too late to repent for me or America. I work to replace the man at the helm and change the course of Columbia.

And Judy Judy Judy WhatsaMata Hari, what and who do you work for?
What's that? Eggs cold agayan and still taste like cardboard? This is the second time you've called to complain and nothing has been done about it? That's a Shame. Well you could be in Iraq having Halliburton shit on a shingle. Let's see how the weather is there shall we.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day_f.shtml?world=2047
My goodness a cold front must have passed through:
Hi 109F Low 84F

Hell next thing you know the Camel Spiders will be coming out from under the rocks. Dayum do you see the size of these things - they look like Keneybunkport Lobsters don't they George?

These look like the stuff of nightmares - thinkin Kiss Of the Spider Woman. Have a nap now and sweat dreams Judy.

[mcscajun]

17. Don't fret about the Camel Spiders...the tales and pics are mostly bunk.

Camel spiders (so named because, like camels, they can be found in sandy desert regions, although they aren't technically spiders) grow to be moderately large (about a 5"-6" leg span), but nowhere near as large as dinner plates; they can move very quickly in comparison to other arthropods (a top speed of maybe 10 MPH), but nothing close 25 MPH; they make no noise; and they capture prey without the use of either venom or anesthetic. Camel spiders rely on speed, stealth, and the (non-venomous) bite of powerful jaws to feed on small prey such as other arthropods (e.g., scorpions, crickets, pillbugs), lizards, and possibly mice or birds. They use only three pairs of legs in running; the frontmost pair (called pedipalpa) is held aloft and used in a similar manner to the antennae of insects. Camel spiders shun the sun and generally hide during the day, coming out at night to do their hunting.

Although the creatures shown in the photograph above appear to be far too big for camel spiders, they look misleadingly large because of their closeness to the camera, which creates an illusion of exaggerated size. (Note their size in comparison to the uniform sleeve which appears in upper right-hand portion of the picture.)

http://www.snopes.com/photos/bugs/camelspider.asp

More here: http://www.camelspiders.net/

[Burried News]

22. Didn't know all that. Thanks

There there Miss Judy - don't you worry - even if they bite there's no venom.

Miss Judy wants to know if they are cannibalistic? She's hoping they aren't and they will leave her alone. She is a little concerned about their speed - there isn't a whole lot of running room where she is.

[Wizard777]

49. I don't like spiders and snakes. But that ain't what it takes to love me.

:wow:

Ooooookay. That's all the things myths about infants being carried off are made of.

:scared:

[yowzayowzayowza]

12. Thx Q.

Good stuff.

[rman]

13. kick

[Q]

14. "Silence is Betrayal"

Someone asked in other post if Bush 'heard' this message.

Silence is Betrayal.

But that message isn't meant for Bush.

It's meant for those who say or do nothing as Bush brings fascism to America. This message is pointed directly at those who have the power to do something...like our 'representatives' in congress and the senate. This message is for the enablers and collaborators and war profiteers.

Silence is Betrayal.

[Peace Patriot]

15. The people spoke. They really did. They came out in huge numbers to

vote the Bush Cartel out, thinking that democracy was still working. Then we found out that Bush Cartel companies--companies run by major Bush donors and campaign chairs, and funded by billionaire rightwing fanatics--had gotten control of the electronic vote tabulation machines with secret, proprietary programming code--no, not had gotten control, had been GIVEN control by corrupt election officials who permitted the states to sign contracts with private, Bushite, election system companies that contained "trade secrets". Our election system had become a billion dollar INDUSTRY rife with lavish lobbying, future job offers, and lobbying junkets such as just occurred at the Beverly Hilton in Hollywood--a week of fun, sun and high-end shopping for election officials from around the country, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia!*

Our right to vote is gone. So that's one place to start. We still have a chance to recover it, at the state/local level, where power over election systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some influence.

Join your local election reform group, or form your own, and demand transparency and verifiability in elections.

We can't do anything without the right to vote. That is our power as citizens, and if we don't have it, the government can completely ignore us and do what it likes--which is exactly what's happening.

58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion. Feb. '03. Yet we had the war anyway.

63% of the American people oppose torture UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. May '04. Yet we have torture anyway, and in fact have had the designer of the torture policy, Alberto Gonzales, shoved down our throats as chief law enforcement officer of the U.S.

You name it. The Iraq war. Torture. Social Security. The deficit. Women's rights. The great majority of the American people oppose every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic, way up in the 60% to 70% range. It's amazing.

You wonder why this government is so out of sync with the mostly progressive and peace-loving American people? You wonder why it's unaccountable? It's because they DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT OUR VOTES.

Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia and all other "trade secret" voting machines need to be thrown into 'Boston Harbor'! It's Declaration of Independent time, all over again. We must throw our Corporate Rulers off our backs, starting with throwing away their goddamned election theft machines.

It's not Bush who is George the Third. It's Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia!

-------

* Check it out! Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia BUYING our election officials:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340

-------

And it wouldn't hurt to have 2 million people flooding the streets of DC on Sept. 24, all of them shouting, "Why?," and all of the signs saying, "Why?". That's my idea. Two million chanting, "Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why?"--echoing through the Capitol, and across America.

I think this can happen. But the trouble is, where does it go then? Do our Corporate Rulers then nominate and elect a war Democrat who will run a better war in the Middle East? That's where Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia come in, and why we have to get rid of them and have real elections.

[bananas]

40. "58% of the American people opposed the Iraq war BEFORE the invasion"

I keep forgetting that, thanks.

[bonzotex]

16. great quote! “A time comes when silence is betrayal"

Patriotism is not about blindly following bad leaders. The People are the Fourth Branch of the Government. Forget most of the so-called "Fourth Estate", the press.

If the three Constitutional branches of Our Nation fail then it is up to the People to take it back.

30% of the public will support Bushco no matter what. I'm reminded that 30% of American Colonists were staunch Tories throughout the War for Independence. Some people never get it.

[Zhade]

18. Kick

Kick

[bananas]

19. Is it too late to kick again?

[Zhade]

20. Never too late to kick!

:D

[Agent Orange]

23. For what it's worth, Q...

When I first started lurking here, I imagined DU to be a mirror image of FRaud Republic. Your posts showed me I was wrong. I joined this website because of posters like you and Tinoire, and the difficult questions you two brought to the table. Here's hoping you post more often! Keep rocking the boat, as it needs rockin.

[classof56]

24. Welcome to DU!

Glad you kept reading and glad to have you aboard!

[Agent Orange]

25. Thank You! n/t

[Q]

39. Welcome to DU...

...and never stop rocking the boat. It's the boat rockers that force the ruling class to make changes for the good of the nation.

But...we have to clean up our own house first and foremost.

How can we fight against an ILLEGAL, AGGRESSIVE war when so many in our own party march in lockstep with the warmongers and Chickenhawks? We shouldn't have to fight other Democrats to force them to do what's right. We shouldn't have to tell them that the Iraq invasion and occupation is unjust and must be stopped right now. Their own conscience should guide them in these matters.

War should always be a last resort after all possible negotiations and diplomacy.

But THIS war was planned long before George took office....long before 9-11.

Too many Democrats have blood on their hands. It's time for them to wash the blood away and join us in calling for an end to the insanity of aggressive war against the people of Iraq.

[Tinoire]

50. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

Imagine my surprise to find such praise in such a marvelous thread (I make it a point to read Q's threads weekly). I'm looking forward, really looking forward to reading your posts.

You'll meet a lot of great posters here. And wow, let me just tell you that that's one of the most flattering things I've ever read because when I first joined this place years ago, I was so in awe of the amazing caliber of the posts that I was literally afraid to post! So wow and thanks for that overly generous compliment!

Welcome again :)

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

26. Outstanding. Our silence in the USA is even worse here

because unlike Bonhoeffer and Haushofer, we don't have SS Guards and Gestapo staring us down and threatening to execute us for speaking out. What Haushofer, Bonhoeffer and other members of the German Resistance did represents the ultimate example in courage, since they knew they would probably be killed by the ruling despots for standing up to them-- yet they did so anyway. In contrast here in the US (for the moment at least), we're not going to be arrested, jailed or executed for speaking out against the madness of our current government's policies, but there are still far too many who acquiesce.

At the start of the Iraq War, there was a determined minority who spoke out against it, not only on practical grounds but also because we realized the humanity of the Iraqi people, valued their lives, and did not want them to be brutalized by a US war machine with its own ulterior motives in mind. But we were shouted down, denounced as traitors, marginalized for speaking the truth-- most Americans wanted to "kick some raghead ass," beat up on some towelheads and all that. And it's taken 2 years for that sentiment to turn around? That it has turned around, moreover, is largely due to the casualties the US is suffering in Iraq-- so the suffering and pain of the Iraqi people weren't enough to make this war reprehensible initially?

We need more courage here, especially amongst our elected leaders. This is one reason why I'll never support DLC warmongers like Biden, Hillary and Lieberman-- they're in favor of more war to "enhance" their national security credentials, and they're craven acquiescers to the war sentiment. They lack the courage to speak out against a policy that's obviously wrong. We need that courage in particular at this juncture, as Cheney and Company initiate their bloody campaign to attack Iran and start a Third World War.

[Disturbed]

28. What is needed is for...

the ex CIA Agents with "special skills" to rid us of the Neo Fascists
that have taken control of Amerika with the aid of the Multi-Corps and
the complict Corp Media Moguls.

[KoKo]

27. One does wonder whether it's "Too Late." But one has to do SOMETHING

to try to stop it! Our leadership fights to be heard over the M$M, and the din of the Right Wing, the Pundits, the Military/Industrial Complex.

It was in many ways so much easier to get ones voice heard when America wasn't so "dumbed down" so used to the most heinous crimes and brutality being broadcast 24/7 by our Cable Media.

There's an "Innocence" we lost. And some have succumed to thinking that "One Voice" is not important because the "voice" will be drowned out in the next "News Cycle" breaking daily.

Those who "Stay" and keep at it in innocence that "what "I" say is important...Listen to me.." like Cindy and manage to connect over the din of the cynical and the hype of the "paid for media" will always win in the end.

I imagine there were many who thought Hitler was too powerful, with too many sucessful "invasions and occupations" under his belt. And, the tragedy of Russia and other countries who fought back with terrible death toll was covered up in the frenzy to report about "when and if America would Join the WAR." The silent, unsung heroes of WWII, who've given way in history to "when the Yanks came in and Routed Hitler" have never gotten the credit they deserve.

Nor, will those of us out here on the Internet who started a "Movement" shortly after the Sumpremes installed George Bush as "P-Resident."

Life is Cruel...keep up the fight. Every day a new voice comes out there and can beat the M$M and Bushie Repug Machine... Like Hitler, one day they will find themselves with their honor gone their dreams in tatters and the choice will be "Kamikazi" or Prison.

History repeats...but not always in the same way..but it does repeat...so the saying goes.

[wli]

34. it's too late

Flee the country while you still can.

[redwitch]

29. excellent post

thank you.
nominated

[LibertyorDeath]

30. “A time comes when silence is betrayal." MLK

[KoKo]

31. Kick...great post and great link...Ray McGovern...how could anyone go

wrong with McGovern on their side?

[Q]

32. It's very difficult to admit...

...that we have enablers in our own party...

They know Bush lied this nation into war.

They knew it as they signed away their Constitutional duty to declare war.

They gave the power to declare war to ONE man.

They know that Iraq has nothing to do with 9-11 or the war on terrorism.

They know there are war crimes being committed.

Yet they say and do nothing about it.

They know that our troops are sitting ducks.

Yet they call for more troops...so they'll look 'tough' on national security.

It's time to get out of Iraq.

It's time to remove these collaborators from office.

[wli]

33. that time was the day the Iraq war was announced

Bushler has already set everything Hitler had in motion. It's now nothing but a matter of time before he uses it all.

[nolabels]

35. They have been attempting to do it for years before

They only as of late they had enough traction to carry it out. I never try to deceive myself on what powers and forces put the current crop in place

[wli]

36. do tell, I'm not really aware of these prior attempts

URL's and/or private messages or other things all welcome.

Thanks.

[Q]

37. Most of America is still in a state of denial...

...and wouldn't complain much if the Bush regime attacked Iran or any other nation without provocation. The Bush Gang has been very successful with their campaign to frighten the American people and convince them that there's a terrorist under their neighbor's bed.

And they have the media. While we were busy trying to make Democracy work...the Bushie family fascists were buying up the 'free press' and putting together the most effective propaganda/smear machine in history.

They promised (and delivered) great wealth to Talking Heads that would devote their entire career to attacking their 'liberal' enemies. 'Journalists' like Rush Limbaugh, Joseph Farah and Michael Savage are this generation's 'Julius Streicher'...paid to attack liberals as the enemy of the state as Streicher was paid to attack Jews.

--------

May 20, 2005
Dangerous Clowns
By Pamela Troy

"His blood carries not honor, and honesty, rather criminality, fraud, hypocrisy, lies, the lust for defilement, and the lust for murder ... a race that has drives toward the unnatural and toward criminality cannot recognize natural moral laws. -- Julius Streicher, on the Jews

... the Democrats – far too many of them – are evil, pure and simple. They have no redeeming social value. They are outright traitors themselves, or apologists for treasonous behavior. They are enemies of the American people and the American way of life. -- Joseph Farah, "Baghdad Bonior," Worldnet Daily 10/8/02

Liberalism is a mental disorder that has undermined our families, our society, and our national security … -- Michael Savage, Newsmax.com interview 2/1/03


Look up the name “Julius Streicher” in the index of most recent books on the Third Reich and you’re likely to be referred to one or two brief mentions. He was a lout whose anti-Semitic newspaper, Der Sturmer, was so crude that he’s sometimes called “Hitler’s pornographer.” He is usually described as a squat thug with a paltry talent for harnessing the combined power of ignorance and malice, someone who intelligent people could safely ignore with a contemptuous laugh.

Many of those who watched the rise of the Third Reich as it happened weren’t that dismissive. In 1936 Time Magazine referred to him as "One of Nazi Germany’s Most Dangerous Clowns." Hitler himself considered Streicher’s ability to mobilize the masses to the cause of Nazism invaluable and Himmler was quoted in Streicher’s newspaper Der Sturmer, "In times to come when the story of the reawakening of the German people is written, and when the next generation will be unable to understand how the German people could ever have been friendly with the Jews, it will be said that Julius Streicher and his weekly newspaper were responsible for a good part of the education about the enemy of mankind."

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/05/05/ana05015.html

-------

Of course...you don't have to be a liberal to be labeled an enemy of the Bush State. You just have to disagree with the policies and agenda of those who took control of this nation in the coup d'état of 2000.

[wli]

38. it's too soft-pedaled

The neocons DO want the physical destruction of the left.

[Q]

42. The 'Neodems'...

...also want the destruction of the left. Yet we seldom hear anything about it because we're suppose to 'support' every Democrat no matter their true agenda.

[kentuck]

41. Let's hope it's not too late....

But the hour is getting late...

[Q]

43. McGovern quotes Edmund Burke.....

"...18th century English statesman and philosopher Edmund Burke:

“The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of crisis, remain neutral.”

[nolabels]

44. There are quite a lot of them

It took a handful of corporations to put many of the bloodsuckers in office. It took a few other handfuls to get on the bandwagon and the rest is history. Inside and outside forces (investors) drive the machine for now. Yet the point to where profits are not important as power is getting near. Many of them industrialist that first financed Hitler probably never dreamed it would turn out as ugly as it did.

I do find it interesting of people buying into this line of pure intent through religion. Seems to me the Third Reich's line was one of populism. The other end, the one of exploiting peoples greed is there though. Regardless greed is agenda that powers it.

Through history you can seem to see the greed thing never got put down till people get to witness and experience enough killing and death to understand it's not a good way to go.

[Q]

46. This is why the 'liberal agenda' of putting people first...

...is so unpopular with the Neocons and Neodems. THEY work for the corporations...with just enough crumbs thrown to the commoners to keep them from thinking about revolution.

It's too bad that 'we' never seem to learn from history. We...especially the leaders of the Democratic party...should have seen this coming as soon as George brought up the 'axis of evil' and the lies about Iraq being a threat.

Hint: countries aren't 'evil'.

[sintax]

45. kick

[donheld]

47. I think most of us know

What we need to do, protest our asses off and make ourselves heard. Will we?

[gulfcoastliberal]

48. This civilization is doomed

It's only a matter of when, not if.

[Tinoire]

51. Another quality post from you Q~ !

Thank you for sharing that. I have memorized the powerful poem and am grateful to you for this little bit of history about Haushofer.

Schuld
...schuldig bin ich Anders als Ihr denkt.
Ich musste früher meine Pflicht erkennen;
Ich musste schärfer Unheil Unheil nennen;
Mein Urteil habe ich zu lang gelenkt...
Ich habe gewarnt,
Aber nicht genug, und klar;
Und heute weiß ich, was ich schuldig war.


Guilt
I am guilty,
But not in the way you think.
I should have earlier recognized my duty;
I should have more sharply called evil evil;
I reined in my judgment too long.
I did warn,
But not enough, and clear;
And today I know what I was guilty of.

[txaslftist]

52. Amen brother.

As a weekly church attendant in the second most conservative city in the country, I consider myself a fairly devout christian. Christ never extolled the virtues of assassination and never suggested that it was a good idea to spread Christianity (or anything else) by war.

In the Book of Luke (Luke 4) Satan offered Christ to be the master of every kingdom in the world, and Christ REFUSED. Which makes me wonder, since GWB is trying to essentially bring christianity to the middle east at the point of a sword (Abrams or an m-16 if you want to get technical), who exactly is he REALLY working for?