so what do we have to loose if we fight fraud hard???

[LSK]

I can understand Kerry giving up because he still had to be a Senator and might look forward to another run in 08. But what does Hackett have to loose??? If the DNC funds fights in the courts for a while, maybe the Diebold fraud can be exposed BEFORE 2006.

What do we have to loose in this case by fighting?? I think we have everything to gain.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I agree. I saw your post in the other thread

especially right now in Ohio with the work comp system being looted by Repubs and SO MANY REPUBLICANS voting for Hackett, this race is a ripe one. See...Republicans don't care if Democrats' votes don't count, but you can bet your hat, your ass and your overcoat that they want THEIR votes to count.

[autorank]

2. The DNC is currently AWOL on election fraud. They won't fight anything.

Take a look at the DNC report on Ohio 2004.  It's got 100
pages of lousy statistics on why Kerry LOST Ohio.  They never
once presented Ohio Exit Poll evidence (which has a paper
trail).  Why is this?  The exit poll is what's called
"contemporaneous evidence"...it's from the day of
the event/"crime."  It's got a tiny margin of error.
 It's the type of same-day election fraud evidence used around
the world to check for election fraud (remember the Ukraine). 


This wasn't an oversight or a rhetorical lapse, this was
either sloppy work/thinking or an attempt to quiet the still
raging flood of election fraud evidence.  

This is pure gold, money in the bank and DNC just ignored it.

Shame on them! Take a look at this from TruthIsAll on 4/29/05.

TruthIsAll Donating Member  (1000+ posts)   	Fri Apr-29-05
09:40 PM
Original message

HOW KERRY WON OHIO BY 51-48%...
	

Edited on Fri Apr-29-05 10:37 PM by TruthIsAll

Well, by winning the majority of virtually every
demographic...
The RBRs must have stayed home.

If you believe the Exit Poll, Kerry won OH by 160,000 votes.
If you believe the Vote, Bush won by 119,000 votes.

If Kerry won this solid Republican state by 51-48%, you just
KNOW he had to do 1-2% better nationally.

Which means he won the election by 6-8 million votes.


OHIO EXIT POLL
1,963 Respondents
Updated: 12:21 a.m.		

CATEGORY	BUSH	 KERRY

GENDER	      47.94%	52.06%
RACE/GENDER	47.99%	51.01%
RACE		47.86%	50.14%
AGE		48.31%	51.39%
INCOME	      45.91%	51.62%

EDUCATION	48.77%	50.94%
PARTY ID	47.18%	51.20%
IDEOLOGY	48.03%	50.97%
VOTED BEFORE  49.30%	 50.70%
RELIGION	49.08%	50.66%

WHENDECIDED	48.22%	49.68%
BUSH JOB	48.42%	49.10%
COMMUNITY 1	48.94%	51.68%
COMMUNITY 2   48.42%	51.33%
REGION	      48.58%	52.07%

VOTE SENATE	48.04%	51.96%
			
AVERAGE	      48.19%	51.03%
VOTES		2.711	2.871

ACTUAL	      50.82%	48.71%
VOTES		2.859	2.740
			
MoE		2.21%	
PROB		1 IN	106


GENDER		BUSH	KERRY
Male 	47%	49%	51%
Female	53%	47%	53%
	100%	47.94%	52.06%
			
RACE/GENDER			
WM 	40%	53%	47%
WF	45%	53%	47%
NWM	6%	25%	75%
NWF	8%	18%	82%
	99%	47.99%	51.01%
			
RACE			
White	86%	53%	47%
Black	9%	16%	84%
Latino	3%	28%	72%
Asian	1%	*	*
Other	1%	*	*
	100%	47.86%	50.14%
			
AGE			
18-29	21%	40%	60%
30-44	30%	49%	50%
45-59	29%	49%	51%
60-	20%	55%	45%
	100%	48.31%	51.39%
INCOME			
0-15	7%	27%	73%
15-30	16%	34%	66%
30-50	25%	46%	53%
50-75	22%	55%	44%
75-100	15%	50%	50%
100-150	9%	56%	44%
150-200	4%	61%	39%
200-	2%	*	*
	100%	45.91%	51.62%
EDUCATION			
NoHS	4%	40%	60%
HSGrad	29%	46%	53%
College	28%	50%	50%
ColGrad	25%	53%	47%
Postgrad14%	47%	53%
	100%	48.77%	50.94%
			
PARTY ID			
Dem	38%	8%	91%
Rep	37%	94%	6%
Ind	24%	39%	60%
	99%	47.18%	51.20%
			
IDEOLOGY			
Lib	21%	13%	87%
Mod	47%	39%	61%
Con	31%	87%	13%
	99%	48.03%	50.97%
			
			
VOTED BEFORE?			
No	14%	45%	55%
Yes	86%	50%	50%
	100%	49.30%	50.70%
			
			
RELIGION			
Prot	57%	54%	46%
Cath	26%	53%	46%
Jewish	1%	*	*
Other	6%	24%	76%
None	11%	28%	72%
	101%	49.08%	50.66%
			
			
WHEN DECIDED			
Today	5%	40%	60%
3Days	4%	36%	64%
Week 	2%	*	*
Month	10%	37%	62%
Before	79%	52%	48%
	100%	48.22%	49.68%
			
			
HOW BUSH IS HANDLING HIS JOB			
Approve50%	93%	7%
Disap	48%	4%	95%
	98%	48.42%	49.10%
			
			
SIZE OF COMMUNITY			
BCities	7%	49%	50%
SmCities19%	38%	62%
Suburbs	50%	49%	51%
SmTowns	6%	43%	55%
Rural	19%	59%	40%
	101%	48.94%	51.68%
			
			
SIZE OF COMMUNITY			
Urban	26%	41%	59%
Suburb 	49%	49%	51%
Rural 	25%	55%	44%
	100%	48.42%	51.33%
			
			
REGION			
Cuya 	13%	35%	65%
NE	27%	45%	55%
Cent	23%	52%	47%
NW	12%	49%	50%
SW	26%	54%	46%
	101%	48.58%	52.07%
			
			
VOTE FOR U.S. SENATE			
Dem	43%	7%	93%
Rep	57%	79%	21%
	100%	48.04%	51.96%
			
			
			
			
			
			

[LSK]

4. the DNC had different leadership in 2004

I have seen Dean speak about election fraud.

[autorank]

7. Well, why did he preside at the press conf. on their stinking OH Report?

That's why I'm pissed. I made excuses for him for a few days myself until I read the report. It's a joke. It's a bunch of consultant reports (on separate letterhead, nonetheless) slapped together with DNC logos heading up chapters. The report is 200 pages. The odd statistical chapter went on for 100 of those pages with semi-interesting but flawed academic analysis and page after page of scatter plots. What a joke. They couldn't even manage the flow and appearance of their report.

Now if Dean took the podium and hadn't read the report, that's an excuse but a really weak one (and that's not the case).

Since he took the podium after reading that piece of trash and touted is (then buried it), we can assume that he endorsed the second surrender of the 2004 election (Kerry's concession being the first).

Shame on Dean, shame on DNC. Pure incompetence or worse...

[Old and In the Way]

9. This stat jumps out at me: Rep 37% 94% 6%

Really? 94% of Registered Republicans voted for George Bush over John Kerry? I call Bullshit.

I live in rural Maine and it has always been very conservative/Independent-Republican type politics. I've done my own polling of Republicans here....out of a dozen or so, only 3 have admitted to voting for Bush. A few were quite anti-Bush and a few quite pro-Kerry.
Now, that may be be an anomoly, but I'll never believe that out of 100 registered Republicans in Ohio, 94 voted for Bush....but I do believe that those votes were the easiest to steal.

[Cocoa]

3. opportunity cost

any resources and attention that would go to that effort would come at the cost of putting those resources and attention toward other efforts, for example developing and promoting positions on issues.

[LSK]

5. you can promote every issue, if machines steal, it wont matter n/t

[Old and In the Way]

6. Tie it up for the next year.

Keep asking questions and associate Republicans with election fraud. I'm already seeing anomolies in this election that need to be investigated....we have to make this the #1 issue going into the 2006 GE.

[Gabi Hayes]

8. A fricking MEN....one word response to that:

Washington Governor Election

[PurityOfEssence]

10. Nothing at all; in fact, this is a golden opportunity.

They can call it sour grapes all they like, but proving foulplay on a small scale like this is much easier than in a statewide contest in a populous state. It won't tarnish Hackett's future chances, and even if nothing can be proved, MANY irregularities can be shown, and it will bring the issue to light.

WHAT POSSIBLE EXCUSE COULD ONE HAVE FOR NOT VERIFYING VOTES? Anyone who wants to stand in the way should be shown as having devious motives. Unfortunately, nobody was there with a court order to seal the central tabulators immediately.

Irrespective of that, this looks WAAAY fishy, and anyone who won't stand for scrutiny has something to hide. This is something that plays well in society at large.

Perhaps, if their tracks are well enough covered, it could cause future disputes to be ridiculed, but that's not a big enough possibility to just crawl under a rock and do nothing. Remember: if ANY anomalies are found, they can be waved like the proverbial bloody shirt.

Voting machines should not be "for-profit" private enterprises that hide behind patent law to keep themselves impenetrable. This is criminal.

[Skittles]

11. LSK

please correct your spelling - the word is LOSE not LOOSE. It's a common mistake but LOSE and LOOSE have two different meanings entirely; THANKS. :)