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Elwood P Dowd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:28 PM
Original message
"We will have no middle class in 20 years"
Republican congressman Walter Jones from North Carolina said that on Ed Schultz a few minutes ago. He also said in 15 years we will be buying our tanks, planes, and even US flags for deceased veterans from China or Hondurus.

Mr Jones is totally disgusted with the Bush administration over trade and over the War in Iraq.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. He also seems to be the only rebublican with any courage.
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 04:30 PM by acmejack
At least one of them will speak out against the * cabal.

On edit: I am surprised he thinks it will take 20 years, I believe it will be much more rapid than that!
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. toooo bad my rethug
rep voted for it, but then his lips have been surgically attached 2 bugman's ass.
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is he the freedom fries North Carolina congressman who is now
voicing opposition to the war too? If so, maybe he can be "converted".
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, he is. And he is very emotional about it, his opposition, and
vocal.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is Mr. Jones the Freedom Fries representative?
That statment is scary and it's even more scary coming from a Republican.
:scared:
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BurgherHoldtheLies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Ha. We asked the same question. nt
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Jinx! LOL! n/t
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. Yes, he is.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yes, I'm listening too. I hope he will be able to convert his
Pub constituents to his thinking too! There's nothing better than having someone people already like, to promote a different idea, and actually be willing to say, we were wrong!
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. He is in a military district. I think that they are talking with him.
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I have a lot of respect for him changing his mind and speaking out
I don't have to like everything he says/does/believes; but I do want my rep to be honest and do what they think is right for the people they represent - not what is right for their party. He's one of the few left that are truly what I used to think of when I heard the term 'conservative' - not these pharisee hijackers that we have today.

I was also majorly impressed yesterday to find out that 14 out of 15 of NC's Republican reps voted NO on CAFTA. Locally, they knew this was a bad deal for their people and they actually stood up and said 'it won't fly' - shame a few more of our safe district DINO's didn't see it the same way.

Guess they're starting to realized that elections are coming up and they need a whole lot more than a picture taken with Shrub to get re-elected.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. I don't think it'll take 20 years.
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 05:25 PM by TahitiNut
The US Gini Coefficient is around 0.45 right now and will be above 0.46 in 2008, by my estimates. I think the housing bubble will show major fractures this coming winter. I have a gut feel that the 'middle class' is already an endangered species and will be, for all intents and purposes, replaced by a "phantom" by 2010.

The rate of increase in the Gini Coefficient resulting from GWB policies and predation will equal or exceed what we saw in 1991-92, the realization of Poppy Bush predations.

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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. We have no manufacturing base and have to borrow 1 billion dollars a day
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 04:42 PM by Sandpiper
Just to function.

America's days as an economic superpower are numbered.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. he may be a repuke
but he's right about that

except that it may be sooner.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. I am worried for my children
My younger daughter is in college majoring in Education. Is that "safe" anymore? Hardly, given the push for an end to public education (read between the lines), and the Fundie push for good "christian" women to hurry up and get married, make babies, stay home, and home school. My daughter switched her major from IT to Education. I am afraid NOTHING is safe anymore.

In Bush's words, OWNERSHIP SOCIETY, become one of the "elite ownership society", or screw you. And WOMEN are going to have it even harder.

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. They're importing teachers as well.
Frankly, I don't think ANY profession is safe as long as you have corporations running this country. It's neo-feudalism, plain and simple.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
14. I heard the Jones interview too.
He talked about how hundreds of thousands of jobs have left North Carolina since NAFTA went into effect.

I'm gratified to hear that at least some Republicans are starting to wake up to the damage the * misadministration is doing to America.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. And without a strong Middle-Class there is no Democracy.
People are too busy striving to survive to pay attention to government.

What a coincidence this should be happening under a president who bleats about how much easier his job would be if only he could be a dictator!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Isn't it though?
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trescruces Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Without a middle class-no democracy
The GOP is obviously out to destroy the middle class by their outrageous tax cuts and benefits for the richest. This is the first time since The Great Depression that the middle class wages are going down! If people haven't seen yet this administration is bought and paid for by the top 1% in this country, they are living on another planet. The religious right are so blinded by their self-righteousness they can't see their own lifestyle and those of their children is in grave danger. The GOP wants to rule over the masses - they are getting everything they want because the Dems have prostituted themselves to get the perceived vote from the moderates. People need to know what the Dems stand for and they will do whatever it takes to tell the people the truth, and will not bend in their values of helping the poor and providing representation for 99% of the people, who are not getting it now! Dems get a back bone and speak out about every lie uttered by the GOP, which are too many to keep track of! Attack the GOP agenda to do away with the representation of the masses.
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Great rant, trescruces!
And, welcome to DU!! :bounce: O8) :bounce:
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. Seconded, and welcome to DU, trescruces!
Please don't make this your one and only post! :hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Hi trescruces!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Tux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
17. Buying USA flags from China?
I can't find a US flag with those 3 little words I prefer to see: Made in USA. Our dead troops are wrapped in Chinese made US flags already, I'd guess.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. My M-I-L (repub) bought me a lawn chair
that has stars and stripes all over it (I hate it - I prefer not to sit on my patriotism).

Made in China.

sigh.

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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'm not sure we have a strong middleclass now
we're leveraged up to our eyeballs,haven't had a decent raise since the Clinton administration.I think we have a teetering middle class.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. In a sense, the minimum wage has DEcreased
when you figure that there's been no increase since Clinton's second term and factor in inflation and cost of living.
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deadparrot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. He should jump ship and become an independent...
it's too much to hope for that he'd become a Dem.

But "Freedom Fries" Jones going to (I) would be a powerful message.
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Jane Eyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. He used to be a Democrat
And his daddy was a Democratic congressman too. Maybe he needs to rethink things a bit and come back from the dark side.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-28-05 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
23. I'm old now and have seen a lot happen in my life,
and I must agree with Walter Jones.

It breaks my heart, too, since I have sons who are just starting out in life.

They both have college degrees, but I still don't see HOW they will ever be able to live as well as my parents did or even as well as we did... until a few years ago.

It isn't all *'s doing either. It began with Reagan, but I'm sure even he didn't expect and wouldn't approve of the wholesale betrayal of the American people.

No, it doesn't please me one little bit to see this once great country laid so low! :grr:

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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:33 AM
Response to Original message
27. Correction: We haven't had
a middle-class gor 20 years. Raygun did the middle-class in.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 03:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. A middle-finger for the Middle-Class.
That's what George has up his sleeve.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Which explains why we haven't had democracy
for 20 years (at least).

It is still called middle-class, but the economic situation of the middle class now isn't the same as it was some 30 years ago.

Who was it that said contemporary middle class "lives one month's salary away from bankruptcy"?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. Thus in twenty years, the revolution will really begin.
Historically and sociologically speaking, it has been the middle class, and the promise thereof, that has formed a guardian barrier that kept the poor from outright revolution against the rich. Remove the middle class and you remove that barrier. Thus we see revolution.

Given the excesses that we're already experiencing, it is going to be a doozy.
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lostinacause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. A revolution seems very unlikely. Things have to get really bad to
necessitate such an action. Being low income in America is nothing compared to degree of poverty that other nations which attempted a revolution had.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. When the middle class is gone,
When we have been reduced to a two class, haves and have nots, society, then yes, it will get really truly bad, and a revolution will be born. People who have nothing to lose and nothing to hope for will take to the streets to wrest power back from those who are oppressing them.

This is a historical and sociological truth. Time and again, across time and all cultures, when there is no bulwark of the middle class in place, people will revolt. Look at France, England, Russia, even America.

It is the middle class that provides stability in a society, and when you deliberately set out to loot it and tear it down, you do so at your own peril.
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lostinacause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. The "have nots" life is not sufficiently terrible to necessity a
revolution. Compared to many other places, low income Americans do not live that poorly. If a revolution were to happen among other things these people would risk their standard of living for something more uncertain. If it were a real revolution their lives would be put at risk and even if victorious the result would be a chaos. The resulting standard would likely fall for a considerable amount of time. This makes it so that a revolution is a poor choice for change.

When you look at any other revolution in history the people were living in such a condition that it did not make much of a difference to their standard of living if they choose to revolt. While you claim it is a historical truth related the stability of the middle class you present no arguments as to why the middle class ensures stability. Perhaps like many other "truths" it is just a coincidence.

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