I just got off the phone with Someone Who Knows.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

While I cannot tell you who and I cannot tell you why, I do feel it is incumbent upon me to tell you something that you need to know:

The daily level of self-satisfied, pissin'-on-the-tree, indulgent turf warfare that goes on, amongst and between progressive organizations is stupifying. Horrifying. Outlandish. Nauseating.

While we are out here, being slowly turned on a spit over a right-wing, corporatist, fundigelical and psychopathic socio-economic fire, these organizations are far, far, far more interested in spending their time protecting their positions and fighting amongst themselves. Surely, while growing nice stock portfolios. While you are battling to keep the lights on, heat the house, fill the gas tank, protect your uterine rights, pay medical bills, feed yourselves and your family and maintain something that approaches sanity, they are more worried that they are kings of some goddamned hill that effects us not in the least.

They aren't getting a hell of a lot done. They are inside the beltway and they are making their gelt.

Voting machines? Hah. Ferget about it. They don't care. Really.

Remember this humble post, soon to dissolve into the aether, the next time they come to you with their hands out. Ask the hardest questions of them.

Trust me, this is the progressive reality within the beltway and it is why it seems that nothing seems to get done. Frankly, I don't know if there is anything we can do to change it. I doubt whatever we tried would sink in to their heads.

The right is kicking our asses, on an organizational level, because these progressive organizations are too worried about swinging their dicks amongst themselves.

[leftofthedial]

1. hey, wait a minute!

Complaining about ineffective progressive organizations is MY JOB! Please butt out.

:sarcasm:

[tanyev]

2. Probably the reason they are still tolerated, too.

They keep us evil libruls distracted while feeling like we are accomplishing something.

[msongs]

3. question #1 to ask: what r you doing to stop election fraud??

registration, evoting, intimidation, dirty tricks, all the bad stuff.

what is your organization DOING, not talking?

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[bemildred]

4. Well, it does seem obvious ...

That our advocacy organizations have been most ineffective these last few decades. And that is why I stopped giving most of them money.

And there is really no excuse. It's not like the "intellectual tide" of "Conservatism" is real.

[havocmom]

5. Very helpful...

NOT

You need a bit of evidence to back up an argument asking us to close our wallets to progressive organizations. Hearsay is not well received around these parts.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

7. I am reporting what I was told.

I am not asking you to close your wallets at all. I am asking you to give in an informed manner.

Kill the messenger, huh? I get no personal satisfaction out of this. Trust me. Just personal distress.

[havocmom]

10. Not killing the messanger. Asking for more details

Kinda touchy and not taking questions? Lot of that going around.

I do realize too many groups in ALL crusades (like cancer research, for instance) have turf they wanna protect. Just curious about your hear-say. Othewise, your remarks really do not help me "to give in an informed manner", do they?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Well, one way in which you can give in an informed manner is...

Making it very clear to the organizations to which you do give that you will cease giving to them if they do not truly and effectively coordinate with others across the spectrum of progressive organizations. And that you also tell them of the issues that truly matter to you, as a progressive voter. That you also tell them that trustworthy and honest voting technology is high on your list of things they need to address, not something that needs to be discarded as an issue.

Hold their feet to the fire. You pay for the right with your donations.

[havocmom]

21. And what is your advice for those who alread do that?

Not trying to nit-pick, just curious about real help in choosing groups to support. So far, you aren't saying anything new, except 'I've got some inside connections...'

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

27. I am not celebrating any "connections"...

Nor am I celebrating what I originally posted. I had to think long and hard about posting what I was told, and I gave it to you in toto. Now, you get to make the decisions about this.

Just learning this caused me a lot of personal pain and distress.

Jesus, I knew I should have kept my mouth shut on DU. Go beyond warm and fuzzies and someone is right there to crawl up your ass.

[havocmom]

28. Not crawling up your ass. I am no gerbil. LOL

But I wonder what the point of basically saying 'I know cool stuff and cool people, but I can't tell you anything specific about this, just be careful' would be.

That is no info but has shades of hubris. Hubris is OK, just not helpful to the rest of us common folk.

Painful to me too, cause I generally find your posts to be very informative and helpful. The tone of this one might make many casual readers of DU, who are just now considering getting involved hesitant to take actions. That is not how most of your posts have come across.

[Justitia]

6. You have to indicate WHICH ORGANIZATIONS

I do believe you, but since I donate and volunteer, etc with SEVERAL, I have no idea where I am wasting my time and money!!!

Without some illumination here, you're just making us paranoid and suspicious.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

9. What I got is what I told you.

And yes, a reasonable level of suspicion, about everything, is a healthy thing to have, these days.

Look, I want to believe, foursquare, in something as much as you. I really do. When I heard this stuff...well, it wasn't helpful. But I just have learned enough to know when to pry and when to listen. Admittedly, while listening to what was offered, I really didn't have the energy to dig for specific names.

I am just letting you people, my friends on DU, know what was said so you can use the information to be better and more informed progressive, grass-roots activists.

[Justitia]

11. Do you have any idea as to which field of interest???

Voting rights, environmental protections, reproductive rights, etc?

[annabanana]

38. dear Tandlayo...

I wish I knew how I could tell which ones were applying my hard earned buck in a wise and thoughtful way, and which were engaged in monstrous pissing contests...

Do you have any method that you could recommend?

[Skidmore]

8. Would you pass back to Someone Who Knows that

some of us out there are no longer willing to lend our financial support to their machinery. At somepoint, their wheels will start coming off because they'll no longer have the manpower either.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

14. Then we will all be poorer for that.

But hardly surprised.

If that comes to pass, I predict that we will be living in something that looks like the darkest, most hopeless days of the Soviet Union.

[Skidmore]

16. There's not a whole lot of reason to feel hopeful now, given

that some of these "liberal" or "progressive" organizations are so firmly ensconced in the machinery that they can't look beyond the Beltway to see the people. I'd rather start from scratch at this point than to support groups who are unable or unwilling to work to seek meaningful common cause and an agenda which can be actualized.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. Why?

If you give to them you have a voice, albeit it small. Start a caucus of givers of the same persuasion, address them en masse, and they will have to listen.

Like I said, hold their feet to the fire.

[barbaraann]

12. One theory: Pressure groups are just pressure valves that

enable elites to maintain control.

[Frances]

13. The GOP gets millions directly from corporations

and they get millions more free publicity indirectly from the right wing media pundits.

So you think that the best way to fight them is to stop giving support to progressive organizations?

Mothers used to admonish their children to stick up for each other when an outsider attacked one of them. I think the same is true here. We can fight among ourselves but when this administration is taking away our jobs and our pensions and our health care, we are stupid not to stick together and fight back the best way we can no matter how much more money they have than we do.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

17. No, not at all.

I do think that contributions should still be given. But as a contributor, people need to express their concerns to these orgs more. There seems to be a disconnect between beltway reality and our reality, from what I heard. But we kinda knew that.

[OneBlueSky]

19. Regulated Restistance, Part 2: The Gatekeepers of the So-Called Left

I don't know how much of this I agree with, but it's certainly an interesting perspective on the topic of this thread . . .

http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/articles/40

Last February United for Peace and Justice, the largest representative coalition within the American "anti-war movement", emerged from their second annual Assembly with a 2005 "action plan" that effectively caged the "anti-war" debate exclusively within the Iraq conflict to achieve partisan ends on behalf of the pro-war Democratic Party and their Neoliberal corporate benefactors. Their "action plan" refused to address any of the core issues of US Foreign and Defense policy, which are the root causes of a pervading culture of war and militarism that has taken over the nation in the years since WWII.

These decisions are part of a larger pattern of "regulated resistance", a system by which dissent is carefully managed and constrained by self, overt, or covert censorship; denial-based-psychology; fear of personal or professional criticism and reprisal; and pressure from powers above including elected officials and those establishment foundations which flood millions into the not-for-profit activist sector.

This establishment money, and the access it grants, has caused many ostensible resistance leaders to suddenly and dramatically abandon long-held ideological positions and shift their behavior towards doing what can clearly be seen as the bidding of those in power whose views and values are in direct contravention to the established mores of peace and justice movements throughout history.

These "resistance leaders" of the "Left" act as "Gatekeepers"—influential "progressive" figures who use their resources and visibility to regulate the debate, tactics, and rhetoric of the "anti-war" and other "progressive" movements.

- more . . .

http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/articles/40

you might also check out Part 1 . . .

Regulated Resistance: Is it possible to change the system when you are the system?

http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/articles/30

[Lexingtonian]

20. well...they feel powerless

And that's what people do whose essential business is power but don't have any. People who don't have the money to play in the stock market but the bug to gamble with the few bucks that they do have go and play poker against each other. Likewise with these sorts of people and power- the stakes are tiny and foolish, the feeling of playing the game is what they need.

All the action in this stuff is on the local and state levels with the small scale of progress that necessitates. The Beltway portions of these organizations have close to no relevance, they're just marking time and keeping their teeth sharp by fighting with each other other, trying to hold up their own degradation, until friendly forces run Washington again.

It's all a pathology that comes with powerlessness, with inability to live up to purposes.

I think ideally the game is to keep some turnover in those organizations- bring in younger people to keep life and the ability to act rapidly in them, put the older people into advisory capacities. That way the necessary knowledge and insight is preserved and accessible but the energy and will remain fresh.

[Skidmore]

23. Maybe some of these folks should just find

other jobs.

[Mz Pip]

22. I've seen it

particularly in the environmental movements. There are times when I get solicitations for money from several different environmental groups. I have to ask why there are so many. Wouldn't consolidation be more effective?

This seems to me to be a case of diluting power. Other than the names of the groups, they all seem to be for the same thing - a pro-environment policy. They don't seem to be real effective since laws protecting the environment seem to be chipped away at each year.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[ArkDem]

24. There are many troughs in Washington.

:argh:

[snippy]

25. Contrast this with the organizational discipline of right wing groups.

Each Wednesday, Norquist heads a meeting in Washington to organize right-wing leaders and ensure that all are on the same page. The attendee list reads like a virtual "who's who of conservative activists." It includes some 70 or so groups with grassroots operations, from the NRA to the Christian Coalition, plus conservative congressional aides and writers who serve as movement propagandists. By the time the meeting ends, all these groups with their diverse interests agree on one agenda for the week. If they don't play along, Norquist cuts off their access to funding or to the White House's policy staff.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0606-10.htm

[MoonRiver]

26. The Republican base used to feel this way,

until they took back their party with uncompromising demands. Of course, the result of this activism has been horrible for the rest of US, but maybe we should take a lesson from them. The Washington fat cats will play us until we are no longer willing to be used. Line in the sand time anybody?

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Don't Downplay The Importance of Dick Swinging

It's what separates the men from the boys (and the women, I suppose).

[annabanana]

39. I'm pretty results oriented right now..

If I have to ride someone's swingin dick to get results..
Well, Yee Haw!...

[jonnyblitz]

30. i totally believe you. it makes sense if you think about it. nt

[flpoljunkie]

31. Heard as reporter, probably from CNN,, say yesterday Dems are telling

activist groups to "keep their power dry" for Dubya's next SCOTUS nomination. Perhaps they are right.

Is this what you are referring to, or perhaps all the email we are receiving asking for contributions to finance their opposition to Roberts?

[Deep13]

32. here, here!

Long have I observed that many liberals are more concerned with their own position in the party/liberal establishment than with victory. What is more, these assholes are the ones running our national campaigns. Dean's reliance on state parties rather than national interests is a step in the right direction.

:applause:

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

33. Exactly.

n/t

[Gregorian]

34. Democrats are political pascifists

We don't play dirty. We don't cheat. And that's what "kicking our asses" means.

We either get the world behind us, or we let the crooks win.

Those are the first thoughts that come into my mind as I sit here. What else can we do, besides become more like them?

[TreasonousBastard]

35. Sorry, but without details...

this has the appearance of shitstirring.

Anyone who has spent any time in any type of organizing knows about the turf wars that go on. I've just spent some time with a group that believes itself to have "the answer" and is going its lonely way, possibly into oblivion.

There are many times we waste more time and money on arguing amongst ourselves over some ridiculous point than working on the larger issue, but this "I can't tell you, but you should know" stuff just causes more grief.

If it's such a big secret, please keep it a secret. If it's something we have to know, tell us what we have to know.

[Cha]

36. Good advice..I know it pains

you to have to be able to give it..but what can ya do? Say nothing? And have it weigh on your conscience?

Someone called me up last night to ask for money to fight roberts..I told them to send me a form and I would commit to a certain amount.

The next time someone calls I will ask exactly how that money is being spent. Which is something I should have been doing anyway.

[European Socialist]

37. You are right.....

And we have 30 years of downward mobility to prove it. You can also add Unions and Democratic politicians to the list. When the game changed to winner take all in the 70's -the Left has fallen and can't get up.

[Jose Diablo]

40. Yep, the only time they come out is during elections

and that's to get their cut of the campaign money. No wonder we are getting sacked, with whats going on in the beltway, who is there looking out for our interests?

[Eloriel]

41. Hah! Forget "organizations" -- equally true of Congress, etc.

They're worthless, utterly worthless.