I honestly need some help with this.

[Bluesplayer]

I'm afraid that I might be turning into a far-leftist America hater, and I don't much like it. Until recently, I was willing to accept the concept of "collateral damage" in our bombings and other operations in Iraq. I find myself questioning it more and more each day.

Rumsfeld goes on TV and brags about the accuracy of the precision bombs that we use, but admits that there is always some civilian loss of life. He doesn't mention that only some of the bombs are precision guided; the rest are as dumb as our foreign policy.

When we dropped the first bomb, and it accidentally killed 5 or 6 civilians, we accepted that. When we dropped the next one, and it killed more civilians, we accepted that, also. Over time, we've accepted that 25,000 - 100,000 Iraqui civilians have been killed since the invasion, depending upon what source you choose to believe.

The other day, a terrorist car bomb in Baghdad killed 27, mostly children. Maj. Russ Goemaere said in a statement that "the terrorist undoubtedly saw the children around the humvee as he attacked. The complete disregard for civilian life in this attack is absolutely abhorrent." But if we had accidentally dropped a bomb in the same spot, the result would have been the same, the same kids would have died, and we would have accepted that, too.

My dilemma is this; at what point does our ongoing acceptance of these casualties become almost as bad as directly targetting them?

[ProudDad]

1. There's nothing wrong about these feelings

The U.S. is the new Rome. It's an Empire, NOT a democracy. It's owned lock, stock and barrel by the ultra-rich and administered (at the moment) by a most egregious cabal of fascist neo-cons and the most reactionary fundamentalist christian talabans.

The U.S. is also extremely rascist. It's ok to kill brown and black and yellow people -- no problem. That's Collateral damage. As Greg Palast said (to paraphrase), the bombings in London are very familiar to Iraqis -- "in Iraq, It's Tuesday." But let a white person be beheaded or killed in "combat" and Horror of Horrors.

Most of the people in the U.S. are not terribly rascist any more. Most of the people are pretty "liberal" if you talk to them about issues, especially issues around justice and fairness. But they aren't in charge.

What's not to hate? I'm not a rascist. I'm a citizen of the world, not the empire. I have no problem hating the U.S. administration and the evil they do.

[XemaSab]

2. Hard to say

in every war, there are civilian casualties, it's just how things are.

but in an unnecessary war, civilian casualties become more like acts of terror, which we are supposedly fighting against.

[OneBlueSky]

3. we passed that point a lo-o-o-o-o-ng time ago . . .

it's just that no one's paying attention . . . especially the corporate media, which means that lots of Americans don't even know about it . . .

on edit: I need to amend that statement . . . the Iraqis are paying attention . . . as is much of the rest of the world . . . it's AMERICANS who don't give a shit . . .

[jillan]

4. My inner conflict is that I feel so bad about the civilians

I feel that I'm more worried about them than the terrorists.

Then I have a ongoing fight in my head about 9-11! Bsh did it, no way would he have done THAT but his lousy intellegence allowed it.

And then I see the repuglies talking about the war on terror, and I don't believe a word they say anymore. And then London happens.


I am going to be a complete mental case before this administration leaves office! Anyone else going in the looney bin with me?
:dunce:

[Tigress DEM]

6. Before you check into the nearest locked ward... think about

going to Washington DC for the Peace Rally (Impeachment Party!)
Sept 24-26th. Hobbit Travel has really cheap fares from Mpls, MN so I've already got my tickets.

If you can't be there but want to be there in DU spirit, let me know and I will add your name to my DU Shout Out Banner.

http://impeachbush.meetup.com/boards/view/viewthread?th...

Hold Bush & Congress Accountable for the Deaths, the Destruction,
the Lies, and the Toll on Our Communities
SEPTEMBER 24-26, 2005


END THE WAR ON IRAQ - BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW!
Leave no bases behind - End the corporate occupation of Iraq
Stop bankrupting our communities - No military recruitment in our schools

Sat., 9/24 - Massive March, Rally & Festival
Sun., 9/25 - Interfaith Service, Grassroots Training
Mon., 9/26 - Lobby Day, Mass Nonviolent Direct Action and Civil Disobedience

PARTIAL GUEST LIST

http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_...

As of Monday, June 27, over 4,500 endorsers have signed on to the September 24 Call for United Mass Action

[Tigress DEM]

5. Reality Check. KILLING CHILDREN - BAD, Lying about it - worse...

Pretending that it's DIFFERENT because we are at WAR in their country "PROTECTING THEM FROM EVIL" - absolutely stark raving insane.

Your real problem is that occassionally you forget that the inmates are running the assylum these days.

Understandable - in their cute little doctor and pResident outfits they almost look like normal people doing their jobs. Check the flaps in the back. They frequently forget to put their pants on or put them on backwards. (Just kidding. Wish it were that easy, but I made you smile - didn't I?)

[Is It Fascism Yet]

7. Since we had no reason whatsoever to attack Iraq at all, and since

Iraq is a country with a population that is 50 percent children, and since their only crime was having our oil under their sand, even one casualty, American or Iraqi, civilian or soldier, is a crying unforgivable impeachable shame. Even one.