Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Headsup: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 04:45 PM
Original message
Headsup: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!!
These are the same data they use in building their case that there was NOT enough fraud to tip the election to John Kerry and that electronic election fraud was NOT a significant contributing factor. Does this look fishy to anyone else besides me?

If the DNC is not forced to relinquish its position that there was NOT a significant problem with electronic election fraud in 2004, do you really think there will be any changes before the next election? Could the stakes be any higher? If the machinery for electronic election fraud is not destroyed, democracy is not only gone, its gone FOREVER.

Please come join the discussion here in the 2004ERD Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. kick - this needs to be seen n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. there will NEVER be another legitimate election in Murka
unless the Dems start acting like human beings.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Nominated!
What's in it for the DNC? I hate to think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thanks! - but please come to the MAIN THREAD on this
I have excerpts and links and everything - but not much response from DU yet:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks I went there. Very, very disturbing.
Who can we trust anymore to look after our votes?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. OURSELVES. We can't trust the DNC without watching them carefully
It's not black and white, it's shades of grey. We have to push them to LIGHTER shades of grey by going to the PEOPLE.

Surely the people of Ohio woulld not be pleased to learn about the whitewash job done in this "report"? It's basically a document to support doing NOTHING about electronic election fraud.

We have to fight this loudly and clearly and convincingly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Of course the info came from the SoS
That office maintains all the records.

I don't see the vast conspiracy here.

There was fraud, I believe, but I don't see this particular issue being one to get all upset about. Whether it was Blackwell or any other Sec of State, that office has the data.

I probably didn't explain myself well but I can't blame the DNC for anything underhanded here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Blackwell is suspect. We can't trust what comes through his hands as
evidence against fraud, as this is being used.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Blackwell is not only suspect, he is a Republican with possible collusion.
in the election fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Indeed. Much questionable behavior around that election, and now
Fitrakis has said on-air that there were three back-doors into the central tabulator in the Ohio election - and one was in Blackwell's office. Link is in the main thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Whoever is responsible for the report has to know where the information
is coming from Maine Dem.

There needs to be some explanation or there is going to be a significant withdrawal and warranted divide in our party.

Something does not add up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. I was thinking
maybe this is why they didn't come out and report massive fraud events? They knew that Blackwell would get his hands on this perhaps. :shrug: Just a guess.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
13. this is a headsup -PLEASE COME TO THE MAIN THREAD ON THIS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: "DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm..."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
14. kicked n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
farmbo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sorry Donna...you can wrap a stinking, dead fish in cashmere...
...but it's still a stinking, dead fish.

This is nothing more than a result-oriented piece of pseudo-academic clap-trap. It is an embarrassment to anyone who actually lives in Ohio and who has followed the election and the (non-existent) recount with anything more than a passing interest. It is breathtaking in its omissions of critical data and, as this post accurately suggests, shows a Junior High naivete in collecting precinct results.

The report really appears to consist of numerous pre-election, theoretical studies, sprinkled with some Ohio references, which were trotted out by the beltway bandits and palmed off on Brazile as serious new work.

Howard Dean should demand his (what the Hell...Our) money back!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. So is this a case of stupidity/laziness/ incompetence, or overt malicious
intent on the part of the DNC?

From Bob Fitrakis:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
"But as has been so typical of the Democrats' performance on so many issues, the party's report appears to have been drafted on the top floor of a high-rise office building staffed with a phone bank."

So why is Blackwell apparently in their "rolodex"?

:grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
17. If this is what I get for my hard-earned contributed dollars
I am disgusted by this weasely white wash of what happened in Ohio. Howard Dean should throw this report back at Brazile and Company and demand a refund. I will leave the Democratic Party over Bs like this because it stinks too much like collusion to me.

I want answers, I want accountability. I do not want Republican lite, DLC BS. I do not want Biden or Hillary. I want Dean, Gore, Pelosi, Conyers, Boxer,Kucinich, and Apology Guy (at least he had the balls to say it, although I can not bring myself to utter his name after his apology - he really should have waited until the new photos prove him on the money) - in other words, the people who will fight the hard fight and not the easy fight.(I leave Kerry out because of his quick easy concession while people still stood to vote for him. I will never forgive him for the duplicity of his "I will make sure every vote is counted" stance while he did the opposite) If they need to break away and unite with the Greens and disaffected dems and repubs and libertarians, so be it. This is really their moment, if they want to seize it. They should recognize it and mobilize. Time for the rise of a third party "Progressive Movement". Who's with me?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
18. It's pretty damned simple & obvious.
The f^cking DNC is an active and willing part of the coverup.

No way this can be anything but deliberate. This is not ignorance. It's malicious participation in the theft of the election. Kerry's gotta be in it too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. Just one question: the SOS's office is the only place that has the info.
Where else do you think they could get it from? They can't produce it out of thin air.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. They can get it from the BOEs directly.....
.....Through FOIA lawsuits...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. But isn't it still the same raw information? NT
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. No...When I say the BOEs....
....I mean sieze the results in the computers, under a lawsuit order. Because otherwise the company can claim its "proprietary"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Thanks, people, but DON'T MISS THE MAIN THREAD!!!:
There are good comments here, but the opening post is just a heads-up, a direction to the MAIN informational post in the 2004 Elections Results & Discussion Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...

Much info and good comments there too!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
24. This is disappointing, but I think we need to take a step back.
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 12:26 AM by shance
There are many of us, including Governor Dean, who I believe for a fact care deeply about this issue. He and others also are dealing with strong opposing forces that make the election fraud/reform issue more challenging not only to address, but to fix.

There are also others who are not educated and as informed as they could be about the ins and outs of the election reform/fraud issue, including those in important positions and we need to continue to inform and educate them and make our presence known. And yes, there are the corrupt ones who we will probably never be able to influence or to sway.

I think the challenge is to stay determined and patient at the same time. There is a place for anger and there is a place for diplomacy. That is not always easy and as someone else put it, there is more grey surrounding this issue than anything. I think the gray represents people not understanding the issue to the full extent of what it means when a vote doesnt count.

There are many, many people who have not been informed on electronic voting and/or election fraud in general and/or have not cared about this issue as much as they should, and/or have been overwhelmed by the volume of assaults by Republicans.

Unfortunately there is no luxury for excuses anymore is there?

I think we also need to realize the truth this issue is going to take time, dedication to making the changes, patience, and persistence of steel.

There is little question the 2004 Report plays it safe and that could be considered an understatement. It's essentially is more of the same from more of the same.

It's a start, but we and more importantly those who work for us can do better.

So we go from here.

I believe the letter that Timeforchange wrote was a wonderful example of how to respond to a problem in general. Not as much with emotion, as much as approaching the issue with facts. Sometimes that is the most difficult thing to do, believe me I know, but it is by far the most productive and effective. That's not to say that a revolution won't be necessary, but I believe at this point, we haven't even mobilized enough to hit the streets.

The facts speak for themselves and the facts are on our side. So lets know them and learn them and be able to talk about the issue like the back of our hand.

We need to continue to move forward on the information and move it OUT AND OFF of the computer into our neighborhoods, schools*, and to those who are not as informed about the issue as we are. We need to figure out concrete ways in which to do that.

It's going to take getting out of the house and into the the streets and reaching out to others through house parties and or salons whatever, and a full hearted commitment to this cause and to move it to the next level. Frankly, it looks like this is our suffrage movement.

Whats the saying no one ever gave up power without a struggle. Well, we are witnessing and living the struggle.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Great post! Very important points are raised here.
Though I didn't write a letter on this yet. Here is the letter writer:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: What the DNC Ohio Election Report failed to address: My letter to H. Dean?
This letter brings logic to bear on the DNC Ohio Election report, and the report does not fare well.

We need to demonstrate clearly, forcefully, and irrefutably the FALSITY of the conclusions reached in this report that there was not significant electronic election fraud in 2004 and that the sum of all the "problems" of any kind were not enough to tip the election.

Bringing more machines to the precincts who were so shamefully deprived of them is a necessity of course, but it will not solve the problem if those votes are vulnerable to electronic manipulation.

To shance: I hope you will consider reposting your comments in the main thread on this topic so that more people will see them. I believe they are important. We cannot give way to too much anger or despair - we have to move forward strongly and with clarity. Here's the main thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Thanks NWO.
I think we need to start a letter writing campaign to Governor Dean.

This is the most important issue facing our future and our country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. It isn't just the SOURCE of data that's questionable, it's also the LOGIC
they try to use to make their arguments. This needs much more study and exposition. here's a start;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: What the DNC Ohio Election Report failed to address: My letter to H. Dean

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thead title: The DNC 2004 Election Report: An indictment of incompetence - Bob Fitrakis

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: "Limp election theft report, Dems prove why they're unworthy" Fitrakis

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
28. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. Kick - and please also come to the MAIN THREAD on this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: DNC Ohio Election Report data were obtained from BLACKWELL!!! Hmmm...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sadiesworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
30. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. ANOTHER WTF MOMENT: "INCREASED TURNOUT HURT KERRY" !?!?!!
(I'll post this in a new thread later tonight, after the current 4ERD thread has fallen off the Greatest page.)

This is from the second page of text in the introductory remarks in the data dump chapter, Chapter VI, on what is page 49 of the full, 204-page report:


If increases in registration reflect voter mobilization efforts, then mobilization tended to help Kerry in all the places included in this analysis except in precincts using precinct-tabulated optical scan machines (which are all in Allen County). But if increases in voter turnout are the standard for measuring mobilization efforts, then Kerry does not come off so well. Over all precincts and wards in the analysis, the proportion voting for Kerry decreases as turnout in 2004 increases, even when turnout in the 2002 election is taken into account. This suggests that voter mobilization efforts focused on turnout on balance hurt Kerry, at least if one takes 2002 as the baseline.


Again, the first page in these Chapter VI introductory remarks make it clear where the data on which this surprising conclusion were based came from (page 48 of the full report):


During the first five months of 2005, the DNC Ohio 2004 Investigative Project collected extensive data from precincts throughout Ohio. Eric Greenwald spearheaded the data collection effort. The effort produced a combination of electronic spreadsheet files and many PDF files containing images from faxes of scanned documents. The most important spreadsheet was a file produced by the Ohio Secretary of State office that reported registered voter counts, counts of votes cast and voting returns for precincts from all Ohio counties.


I thought the evidence was that voter turnout INCREASED because people wanted to vote for Kerry against Bush, especially in the African-American communities. :wtf: Shouldn't the DNC report writers have seen this as SUSPICIOUS???

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
34. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. 
Well, that would be what they're hoping for wouldn't it? All good dems should be taking weapons training rather than yoga classes.

Gyre
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 07:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. OH. MY. GOD - come see the DOJ "report" on the Ohio election - Conyers is
Edited on Fri Jul-01-05 07:37 PM by Nothing Without Hope
"FLABBERASTED"!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
Thread title: BRAD BLOG: DOJ OHIO WHITEWASH REPORT! CONYERS 'FLABBERGASTED'!

From the opening post of that thread, which has the Full Story, including complete DOJ Report and Conyers' full reply:


DOJ WHITEWASHES OHIO ELECTION INVESTIGATION!
CONYERS 'FLABBERGASTED' IN REBUTTAL!
Unrequested 'Report' Dismisses, Ignores Evidence of Discrimination, Disenfranchisement!
DoJ Report Also Reveals More than 100,000 Ohio Voters NEWLY 'Purged' from Rolls in One County Alone!

There is almost no other way to put this, but we are simply floored by the report just released by the Department of Justice concerning the Franklin County, OH elections...

If there ever was a report which could be called a whitewash, this would be the very dictionary definition -- with the emphasis on WHITE...


And now we have to deal with the fact that the "independent" DNC Ohio report, based on data handed to them by Kenneth Blackwell and ALSO arguing against fraud, can't be used to argue this DOJ travesty down effectively because IT IS A WHITEWASH TOO!!!!


It's probably a matter of degree, and the Dems haven't tried to purge anyone. But they use the numbers from Blackwell to say there was no fraud, so the GOP can say that the DNC's own report prove that they are right in claiming this.

This MUST be stopped, or we will never see democracy again. Which is exactly what they want.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I said it before and I'll say it again
To me, this is evidence that the Democratic Party is just as duplicitous and involved as certain specific Republicans, Diebold, Blackwell, the so-called DNC report, and who knows how many others in denying the citizens of the United States full free clear transparent verified elections that reflect the true will of the voting public.

If Democrats will not stand up - who will? Will no one stand up? Boy, this makes me recall the shame of 2000. Who will fight?. . . . . . . ..... . .. . .... . . .Deafening silence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-01-05 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 24th 2019, 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC