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Fight dirty, go negative early and often. Politics is a bloodsport, not a

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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 07:54 AM
Original message
Fight dirty, go negative early and often. Politics is a bloodsport, not a
Gentleman's game!

Dems can't compete if they attempt to maintain the "moral high ground".

Kick republicans in the balls, gouge out their eyes, crush their windpipe and kick them when they're down repeatedly.

Or, you can get used to being the minority party.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/25/02935/2186


They take careful notes as instructor Paul Gourley teaches them how to rig a campus mock election.

It's nothing illegal -- no ballot stuffing necessary, even at the most liberal colleges. First you find a nonpartisan campus group to sponsor the election, so you can't be accused of cheating. Next, volunteer to organize the thing. College students are lazy, and they'll probably let you. Always keep in mind that a rigged mock election is all about location, location, location.

"Can anyone tell me," asks Gourley, a veteran mock electioneer, "why you don't want the polling place in the cafeteria?"

Stephen, a shy antiabortion activist sitting toward the rear of the class, raises his hand: "Because you want to suppress the vote?"

"Stephen has the right answer!" Gourley exclaims, tossing Stephen his prize, a copy of Robert Bork's "Slouching Toward Gomorrah."

The students, strait-laced kids from good colleges, seem unconvinced. The lesson -- that with sufficient organization, the act of voting becomes less a basic right than a tactical maneuver -- doesn't sit easy with some students at first. Gourley, a charismatic senior from South Dakota and the treasurer of the College Republican National Committee, assures them: "This is not anti-democracy. This is not shady. Just put somewhere where you might have to put a little bit of effort into voting." The rest, Gourley explains, is just a matter of turnout.

Here's the site for creating the Republican monsters.

http://www.leadershipinstitute.org/index_flash.cfm
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. bingo!
Here's an example that pissed me off locally.

There was a local D. meeting in town a couple weeks ago. The group had reserved a covered picnic area at a local park. When they got there an R operative was eating lunch in the picnic area. Rather than confronting him, they moved the D meeting to the lawn.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. OH I agree! I think that's what Dean has been doing!
Now you tell ME why so many Dems are slamming him for doing it?????

I have been saying for years that you have to fight fire with fire. We can't let the opposition use rockets and we continue to use pocket knives!!!

Whay won't the Dems let Howard do a job that he's very good at doing? Why won't our elected Dems join him?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Because ..
.... the failed, old guard, pink tutu, handwringing, go along to get along, appeasing wing of the Dem party cannot stand it that they are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and they don't have a plan or the guts to take power from the Repugs.

They continue with their measured rhetoric and whine when the media doens't cover it. They wonder why, that after compromise after compromise with the Repubs, that when they want a small portion of good will they get shit on every time.

Some people are simply too nice to play politics as the Republicans have defined it. They should move aside and let those who have the passion and the ability play.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. I saw Dean on "The Daily Show" last night
Stewart said (approximately), "There have been complaints lately that the Dems don't have any spine, don't speak up. Now they're saying 'Uh, Wow, look at that spine!' Do you think you ever go too far?"

Dean: "Sometimes I do go too far, but I'll tell you, every time I make a comment that gets the attack machine all spun up, $500,000 comes in from the Internet, unasked."

:toast:
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meti57b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. I suggest recommending this one. It's a must-read.
This is the sort of training Dems need.
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for the recommendation. Dems also need to co-opt the Eleventh
Commandment of the Republican party : Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Democrat.

"We must all hang together, or we will surely all hang separately."
--Benjamin Franklin.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Lakoff's take on negative campaigning from Start Making Sense
The new book put together by Alternet:

Nix: Democrats and progressives seem to find negative campaigning distasteful and like to think they can still be all positive all the time and still win votes.

Lakoff: And they will keep losing as long as they believe that. I mean negative campaigning in the sense of pointing out all the true and truly bad things about the other candidate.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/193149884...

The book features articles and interviews by dozens of leading progressives. I think everyone should read it. In fact, I wish we could raise enough money to buy a copy of the book for every Democratic Senator and Congressman. They might learn a little about how people feel.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is TRUE TRUE TRUE.
I wish our folks would start taking this to heart. DAMN!

Yes, I know it takes us down to their level. Yes, I know it makes us no better than them. FUCK IT! Just Do It ANYWAY.

Yes, I also know that poll after poll after poll shows people SAY they don't like negative campaigning and that it's a turn-off. NEVERTHELESS, they STILL fall for it and buy into it, hook, line, and sinker. Research repeatedly shows that NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING WORKS. IT WORKS. IT GETS THE JOB DONE. IT WINS ELECTIONS. And even while people CLAIM they don't like it, they are still taken in by it, BIGTIME.

WHEN are we gonna realize that?

When I start talking about how you don't take a knife to a gunfight, and if someone shoots at you with a howitzer, you don't arm yourself with a feather duster, I get the same tired old crap about how - Oh, Dear Me! That means we're no better than them!!! We're just like them!! Oh, WOE!!!

And you know how I've started to respond? I say - "you know something? I DO want to be like them. JUST like them. Because you know what they are? They're WINNERS. And I want to win. So if that's what it takes, SO BE IT. It's about time Macchiavelli started working for the Good Guys, anyway."
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Lecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. Correct me if I'm wrong
...but when Clinton ran, didn't he stray from negative campaigning?

I don't think negative campaigning is bad, just as long as it doesn't get too nasty or petty, that does turn off a lot of people.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, it turns off a lot of people. But the messages stick in their minds.
Even if it's merely a flavoring or planting a seed of doubt or suspicion - it's been effective. Truly, people say they hate negative campaigning. And I'm sure they're completely sincere about that. Many really do feel that way. But it ABSOLUTELY DOES influence their vote. Look at what happened to John McCain in the 2000 South Carolina republi-CON primary, and McCain had OOODLES of good credentials going into that one, PLUS a winning streak.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes, people claim they are turned off, but they are lying their asses off
if they claim it has no effect. Look at the results and state of things as proof positive -or negative as the case may be.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. The Corporate Controlled Media has a big hand in it all
The flawed 'polls' showing how close the race is help the fraud continue as well.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Polls and psychological studies have shown that
what people say they want and what they pay attention to are often quite different.

I think it's also a matter of perspective. What I consider an accurate accounting of a candidate's record could be construed as a negative attack ad by one of his or her supporters. What I consider mudslinging someone else considers valuable character assessment.

Unfortunately, "negative campaigning" is what works. And it's nothing new. As far as I know, George Washington was the only president immune to the tactic.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. If negative campaigning didn't work, Max Cleland would still be a Senator
I know people don't like it, and there are times it backfires, but if it's not sufficiently answered, it works. Throw enough shit at the wall, and some of it always sticks. The trouble is, all the feces-flinging howler monkeys appear to be working for the GOP, and that's a lot of shit to keep scraping off the walls. Some of it always manages to leave a smear.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yes, unfortunately "taking the high road" is often equivalent to
asking for a loss. At the very least candidates need to fight fire with fire. Not wanting to dignify an accusation with a response is NOT the way to go.

As for Cleland, I'm still not sure a bit of computer tinkering didn't have more to do with his loss than Saxby's crap. As a Georgian by birth, if not by current residence, I really desperately need to believe that most of my fellow Georgians wouldn't swallow such obviously devious and dishonest tactics. Oh well, I can hope, right?
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. You are a native Georgian, I happen to be a transplant.
I find so many people who are simply not willing to listen to reality. They love Shrub, and it doesn't matter what I say, how much proof I have, they simply say "I support GWB!"
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. yes sir- it is LONG PAST time to break out the baseball bats. n/t
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-28-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Figurative baseball bats for sure
Such as a TV ad showing the elderly poor from years ago having to eat canned dog food in a tiny unheated apartment -- and then fast forward to 2025 after Bush "fixes" Social Security and you have a scene of the new elderly poor unable to drive anywhere because gas is $10 a gallon and making a meal out of Saltines flavored with McDonald's ketchup packets.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-30-05 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. Oops. Self Delete.
Edited on Thu Jun-30-05 06:55 PM by janeaustin
I posted to the wrong thread.

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