Nelson, Pryor, and Landrieu...

[kentuck]

voted for cloture yesterday. Does that mean they would also vote for Bolton? Not necessarily. But their votes will probably not be needed if it comes to a vote. So what did they accomplish by voting for cloture?

Considering that the three of them are part of the "compromise" with the Republican "moderates", it may help save the compromise for future fights? And it appears the battles are just beginning. We will need all the help we can get - even if it is from some "moderate" Repubs. There is a psychology at work within all these votes and chess moves. It is not as cut and dried as some would think or some would hope, in my opinion.

[11 Bravo]

1. I think you've hit it right on the head, kentuck, but ...

pragmatism is an ugly word around here lately.

[kentuck]

3. Pragmatism for the sake of survival is no vice....

pragmatism for the sake of politics is no virtue... :)

[salin]

5. That is because it sometimes works and other times fails

and many are devastated by the number of failures and the sometimes seeming futility of it all.

I think both views are legitmate. Sometimes it succeeds and sometimes it doesn't. I like Ried - he seems to get this - and put emphasis on strategizing a bit more per when to go to fight and when to act on pragmatism - than did his predecessor. Of course the whole dynamic shifted so very quickly on Daschle - that he used old 'formulae' per determining when to fight/when to be pragmatic... but the tenor in DC had moved. Ried - was close up and observing during that time as minority (and majority) whip. It appears that, so far, he has learned his lessons well.

Then there are some votes that are just plain ole self-perpetuating senators (beg for campaign cash) at the expense of constituents, such as the bankruptcy bill - but that is a different case altogether (but it is part of what fuels the critical dynamic here at the DU forums)

[jus_the_facts]

2. Mary Mary quite f'n contrary......

:nopity:

[AlCzervik]

4. even without the deal i think all 3 would have voted for cloture anyhow

Nelson almost always votes with the republicans.

[kentuck]

6. You are probably right....

about Nelson. However, I think Landrieu and Pryor voted for cloture simply because they felt obligated by the compromise "agreement". As a side benefit, I'm hoping it keeps the "gang of 14" together as a coalition, because it takes away the dictatorial majority of Frist and Bush. They have to have them on their side. Period.