Revitalized Clark Campaign Advancing - Dems' Best "Anti-Dean" Alternative

[Jack_Dawson]

Nice LA Times article - sorry if a dupe.

http://tinyurl.com/2t9qu

"But over the last several weeks, Clark has steadied a message that combines criticism of the war and detailed alternatives to Bush's defense and foreign policies with the claim that he's the only Democrat who can blunt the president's advantages on national security issues.

In effect, Clark is arguing that he's the one candidate who offers Democrats a chance to vote their hearts and their heads — that he can express the antagonism most Democrats feel toward Bush's policies and still have a realistic chance of winning in the fall.

...Yet overall, Clark's operation seems smoother. Buoyed by big donors who consider him the most viable general election candidate, Clark is raising money rapidly; his campaign estimates it will collect between $10 million to $12 million during the three-month period that ends Dec. 31. On Thursday, the campaign organized more than 700 house parties in 48 states to collect small donations."

I must say, I couldn't agree more...

[ronnykmarshall]

1. I think Clark's numbers are going to rise

He's my choice.

[BootinUp]

2. This is a pretty fair assessment

Thanks for the link!

[Larkspur]

3. I watched Clark on C-SPAN last night and..

he was doing a NH town hall/rally type of event.

I must say that after watching Clark for the whole segment that the general is as exciting to watch and listen to as a ventriloquist's dummy being operated by an amateur.

He's got no passion nor does he connect with the attendees, most of whom in this case were Clark supporters.

No wonder Dean is blowing him out in New Hampshire and apparently has taken the lead in SC, where Clark has decreased.

[maddezmom]

12. what one wad it and what time was it on?

must've missed that one, because all the ones I've watched he was very connected to the attendees. I guess it's all in perception. Your guy was on last night...seemed pretty good. John Edwards was on and he did a fine job, too.

edited for spelling and typos

[robbedvoter]

13. Thanks for raising the level of discussion on DU by banning nicknames.

It was a very cogent, compelling point. I am waiting for something on the color of his suits maybe - earth tones was so effective in 2000!

[Scott Lee]

16. Hmmm, I thought administrators did that, not users here?

But I admit that there may be some manipulation by the Overlords of the UFO, or the Elders of Zion.

Gooooz fah bah.....goooz fah bahhhhhh....

[lurk_no_more]

24. While supporting Clark I must agree

I'm one of the few that would have much rather of had a candidate screem repeditive one liners at me all night, were I just a bit younger.

But alas, I have mellowed somewhat and in doing so I now find it rather refreshing to listen to someone talk "TO" me rather than at me.

Ah! the joys of maturity!



“JAFO”

[Myra]

32. Are you sure you weren't gazing into a mirror?

eom

[Larkspur]

46. No. I'm not the one running for President. Clark is and

he is suppose to rally people to his view. He had a hard time rallying the Clark supporters in NH that I saw. If he has trouble doing that then he has no hope of rallying uncommitted voters to his campaign.

[TexasSissy]

54. You want excitement? Go on a roller coaster ride. You want to win ..

an election? Nominate someone who knows what he's speaking about and can run a country.

Tricks are for kids, silly wabbit.

[helleborient]

4. Any text at all???

This requires registration...

Do they have any hard data that Clark is turning it around? The polls that have been posted here don't show that...

[BootinUp]

8. How About This poll

discussion thread and poll link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=14846

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/local/state/hc-20235239.apds.m0920.bc-ct-democdec20,0,5478446.story?coll=hc-headlines-local-wire

[helleborient]

14. That poll had Clark at 14 in October, 13 now in New Hampshire

Here's an article on the Monitor poll in late October...

http://www.cmonitor.com/stories/news/state2003/102203_dem_poll_2003.shtml

Where's the traction?

[BootinUp]

18. No, that Oct poll includes independents

The October article you reference says poll includes independents, the other article only says democrats. I am not sure this is a good comparison at all.

from your link

"The poll, conducted on Oct. 16-20 by Research 2000, questioned 400 New Hampshire Democratic and independent voters. The results echo those of other recent state polls, with Dean maintaining a comfortable double-digit lead over Kerry."


Here is a link for NH poll results by a Clark blogger that you may find interesting, I cannot do a thorough analysis right now, but I think you can see Clark has definitely gained strength.

http://home.gwu.edu/~jacobsen/polls/New%20Hampshire.htm

[helleborient]

22. They don't have the latest ARG which has Clark back down to 7

After having been up to 11.

I still see no indication of any gain in strength.

[BootinUp]

41. Seems to be a lot of disagreement

in these polls. Kinda suggests things are fluid. Also The ARG poll shows that voters are still getting to know Clark and haven't all made up their minds.

Look a third place in New Hampshire is fine for Clark, 2nd would be icing on the cake. But to say that Clark is not showing gains is incorrect based on a fair analysis of all polls IMHO.

I am starting to think we just aren't going to know much about Clark's performance in NH until voting day, mainly because his late start and still fairly low voter recognition.

[helleborient]

44. Do you have a poll where Clark is higher than in that poll in October?

I still haven't found one...saying he's not showing gains seems about absolutely right without data to the contrary...

[BootinUp]

51. I don't think comparing against 1 poll is worthwile, here is my take

You want to take one poll, that includes independents, from way back in October, and just because that poll is at 15%, it means Clark has not shown any gains relative to the pack in the last 60 days.

I can't find many comparative state polls on line, but I did find one with the last data point of Dec 8.

The real question is has Clark made ground on the second place candidate?

The answer is clearly yes. see chart last data taken Dec 8.

http://www.suffolk.edu/suprc/pres/dec03/dec03_trends03_demchoice.html


Then read this:

http://www.suffolk.edu/opa/news/12_08_03poll.html

In other findings from the 7NEWS-Suffolk University poll, Wesley Clark (19%) was New Hampshire’s Democratic top choice for Vice President, followed by Joe Lieberman (13%). In fact, among Dean voters in New Hampshire, Clark was clearly the VP pick with 29%, followed by Kerry with 13%.


This explains why Clark is clearing the air about a possible VP slot lately, the voters in NH think it is a possibility and therefore are not forced to re-examine support for Dean vs Clark.

[jonnyblitz]

5. I sincerely thought he would be the frontrunner by now.

Particulary with the 24/7 media trashing of Dean.

[KittyWampus]

6. Trashing Of Dean? If It Makes You Feel Better...

[SahaleArm]

38. We've had less than a week of 'negative' Dean coverage...

and they're already complaining? After 3+ months of nothing but postive coverage? Wait till the sh*t really hits the fan...

[deminflorida]

7. One phrase for the Dean people....

Feb. 3, 2004

It's coming, get ready.

[dave29]

9. That's only a potential because Clark is playing hookie in Iowa

and yet still isn't catching fire down in SC

[poskonig]

10. I'm pumped dude!

Especially with the latest SC polls!

[JVS]

11. Bring it on!

[helleborient]

15. It's gone nowhere since October...

Why should we expect something now?

[BootinUp]

20. See post 18 please n/t

[jonnyblitz]

23. right. n/t

[RogueTrooper]

26. Just make sure you pass us in the polls first

:evilgrin:

[batman]

17. anti-dean. ?

strange term.

[ibegurpard]

19. Indeed

Hell of a campaign theme you've got going there General Clark.

[maddezmom]

21. was it the Clark campaign's term or the author's?

I support Clark, but I'm not anti any of the dem candidates.

[Toucano]

27. "Anti" not part of article.

I guess it was added by the poster.

The only person I am anti- is BUSH. But I agree that Clark represents a palatable alternative.

[Cheswick2.0]

25. too bad he has no democratic credentials

I am sorry but I will not vote for someone who decided to be a Democrat just weeks before he declared his candidacy.

[KittyWampus]

28. Too Bad Dean Has Bush-Lite Credentials

I will not vote for someone who decided to be a Liberal just hours before he declared his candidacy.

Nothing worse than an opportunistic panderer with no core values.

Oh wait, I suppose I WOULD vote for Dean if it comes down to that unsavory prospect...'

Too bad you would enable another 4 years of Junior... but that is your perogative.

[jonnyblitz]

29. well at least Dean was a registered DEM when he announced

his candidacy. :hi:

[Toucano]

30. Zell is a registered Dem.

As if that means anything.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TLM]

36. Lieberman is easily more of a democrat than Clark...

I do not recall Lieberman working as a defense lobbyist or going to republican fundraisers to speak about what a truly great leader Reagan was or how Bush was a man of vision.

[SahaleArm]

42. Dean on Bush I: Excellent on Foreign Policy - He'll hire James Baker n/t

[JVS]

34. It means that we have to have better people working the door,

[TLM]

35. So even Zell Miller has more democratic cred than Clark...

I mean can you find an instance of Zell going to a repuke fundraiser to say how much he loved reagan? I think that might be too much even for him.


But we have a special set of standards for Wes, down't we?

But I bet if Zell was a 4 star general, Clark supporters would line right up to vote for him as the nominee. THey'd proclaim Zell a true democrat regardless of his past positions... just like they're doing with Clark.

[SahaleArm]

40. Who does Zell endorse? Maybe you're on the wrong site n/t

[TLM]

33. Can;t defend Wes' dash to be a democrat... so attack Dean

But was Dean the one going to repuke fundraisers and saying how much he loved reagan and what a great leader Bush was only two years ago?

You want to talk about Democratic creds?

While Wes was sticking his nose up republican butts for speaker's fees and working as a defense lobbyist... Dean was expanding healthcare, creating jobs, funding education, and balancing his state budgets.

[Tom Rinaldo]

47. I see a lot of people defending Dean on DU

People who back other candidates for the nomination are pledging to support Dean if he wins the nomination. I see people agreeing that the term "Anti-Dean" shouldn't be used by Democrats, with several threads of discussion on that point and lots of Clark supporters posting.

And I see you coming on to Pro Clark threads and continuing to frontally attack Clark. That's what I see. Dean is the front runner. What do you really really expect to be going on at this point in the process? I wish Clark were the front runner getting all the concern from other candidates. You are in a fortunate position. Ahead with people pledging to support Dean if he wins. Don't be so greedy. You never really expected a coronation, did you?

[RetroLounge]

48. Bush-Lite ???

Ohh, I see now. When Dean uses the phrase, it's an all out atack.

But in reference to Dean from a Clark Supporter, it's okay.

_|_

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. It's never OK

OK? But there is a difference between one of the 9 Democratic Party Candidates publically using that obscentiy against one or more Democratic Party Candidates, than it is for one of the tens of thousands of free lance supporters of a candidate using the term on a bulletin board. I don't really need to explain why, do I?

[Myra]

52. Thanks for stating it perfectly Rev Sharpton

"Welcome to the party. It's better to be a new Democrat that's a real Democrat,
than a lot of old Democrats up here that have been acting like Republicans all along."
-Reverend Al Sharpton, Democratic debate, 9/28/2003

[maddezmom]

53. Al likes Clark

and I'm sure a few others as well. Thanks again Al for welcoming Wes to the party. :)
edited: spelling

[Myra]

37. Not to state the obvious, much

But there wouldn't be so many sneering posts from Dean
supporters if they weren't plenty worried about General
Clark. I don't see them going into Kucinich thread, for
example, and trying to undermine his support.

[Patriot_Spear]

39. Clealry, if you're an 'anti-Dean' then you're 'Anti-Dean Supporters' too.

If that's what you want, fine. Do you really think I'm going to support someone who is 'Anti' the values I see in Howard Dean?

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. Please take note of the thread bout this terminology

Here it is:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=18266&mesg_id=18266

I will never personally call myself Anti-Dean but a lot of people slip into the terminolgy without giving it much thought. That thread has a good discussion going on the theme you raise. But again Patriot, aren't you really talking to the person who wrote the thread. That poster may or may not be anti the values you see in Howard Dean or it may be a matter of sloopy semantics. In either case no one expects you to "support" some poster on DU. The question for all of us is which Canidates, in which order, can we support against George Bush.

[Tom Rinaldo]

45. Sorry, see that you have already been there

Frequently! But maybe some others haven't. I agree with you what you say over there Patriot, but I think my point above still stands. We can't allow ourselves to get thrown off center by stray comments of supporters of other candidates. Did you read my "Open Letter to Dean Supporters"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=16345

I am curious what your action to it might be.

[Upfront]

50. Hey!

I thought we were supposed to be anti-B###. Silly me. What crap!