Latest outrage: the far right are moving to discredit FDR

[AlGore-08.com]

The signs are everywhere... articles comparing what Smirk wants to do to Social Security being compared to what FDR went through to get it passed... Smirk dissing FDR for allowing the spread of Communism after WWII... Pat BuKKKanan on Imus, claiming WWII wasn't worth the effort... the ongoing effort to put Reagan on the dime...

Anybody else noticing this?

They couldn't come up with a better President than Roosevelt - - their only two contenders are Lincoln, but he made war against their voter base and ended slavery and Teddy Roosevelt, but he made war against their class.

So they have to take down FDR in order to make their hacks (Reagan, Smirk) look like the greatest White House occupants in history.

Shame!

[zbdent]

1. So, because the "oppression of the South" after the Civil war gave birth

to the KKK,

Lincoln deserved his fate? Similar logic . . .

[AlGore-08.com]

8. I'm not saying that about Lincoln, the far right is...

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding.

And FWIW, at least a few Neo-Nazis over the years have claimed that Lincoln was a "race traitor" and "deserved" to be assassinated...

[zbdent]

18. Not attacking you, attacking the idjits who are trying to paint FDR as

a commie-lover who intentionally started the Cold War.

[Patiod]

2. They're working on Lincoln, too

I wish I had a link, but I was reading the "Tombstone Tumbleweed" (long story), whose editor is one of the founders of the Minutemen boarder patrols - a total right-wing nutjob. The paper had a very favorable "book review" of some book trashing Lincoln.

[RoyGBiv]

6. Probably a libertarian thing ...

Thomas DiLorenzo, libertarian god, authored a book, I think called _The Real Lincoln_ (I'm away from my library and references at the moment) that libertarians and ultra-wingers have been holding up as bible of all that was wrong with Lincoln.

It boils down to them blaming him for every ill that has befallen the nation since 1865, everything from big government to war crimes.

That book, btw, is garbage. I have a link somewhere put together by an academic friend of mine that is a long rebuttal of the argument DiLorenzo makes.

[EVDebs]

11. Odd, Lincoln railed against corporations and their evil potential !

What Lincoln Foresaw:
Corporations Being "Enthroned" After the Civil War
and Re-Writing the Laws Defining Their Existence

http://www.ratical.org/corporations/Lincoln.html

[RoyGBiv]

15. Shhhhh ...

They be hunting demons.

None of it makes sense. Lincoln railed against a lot of the modern evils attributed to him. The problem, in part, is that he's associated with the Republican party, which at that time was still very much a fractuous coalition with wildely divergent interests and goals. One of those factions eventually rose to the top and took control, notably the ultra pro-business, corporation, etc. faction.

Lincoln was no more flawed than any President, and he was quite a bit better than most. One could pick nits about him and offer up some genuine criticisms of his actions and ideology, but people like DiLorenzo take these nits and blow them out of all proportion.

[suziedemocrat]

25. I'm sure they also hate Eisenhower. People who want to make the world

a better place are Dangerous! That's why they hated Clinton. He REALLY wanted to make a difference - improve the lot of ordinary people - that's Dangerous!!

[doodadem]

3. So how are they going to explain FDR getting elected 4 times?

Back when elections by the PEOPLE were legit??

As for Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt, the Repug party is a vastly different, bastardized version of the party they belonged to. They would be Democrats today.

[KansDem]

7. "Election fraud..."

Don'tcha know? "Election fraud" occurred in national elections from 1932 to 1944 and in 2000 (Gore tried to steal the election, damnit!), and in Washington State in 2004. It was finally brought under control with the implementation of Diebold voting machines and their ability to provide a clean, honest accounting of the voters' intent, void of any malfeasance.


How's that! :D

[Felix Mala]

4. Going On For Years: Buchanan, Coulter, Rush were all reared

in households where FDR was a dirty word. Their lifelong aim has been to defeat liberalism from it's inception. They are totally in denial about FDR saving free enterprise and creating the middle class. My grandparents would have laughed in the faces of these boobs. They were the classic examples of people who were able to build a decent life without working 100 hours a week or owing their annual salary to the company store.

True, FDR turned his backs on the plight of blacks in the south, but his four terms and WWII made it possible for civil rights to get going in the 50's. It was FDR's judges who decided Brown vs. Board of Ed.

About 12 years ago I was listening to Rush rant about FDR when a caller somehow got through to challenge Rush's 'thinking.' The caller was really good and called Rush at every point where his knowledge of history was lacking. Finally, Rush hung up on the guy.

[EVDebs]

9. 'Futurist' eschatology of Left Behind series is actually Jesuit

Jesuit named Ribera cooked up this 'pre-tribulation' rapture eschatology in order to counter the view of the Reformation preachers (Luther, Zwingli, et. al.) that the Papacy is the antichrist. The Counter Reformation needed to refute this and the Jesuits presented both 'Futurist' and 'praeterist' views to counter the 'historicist' (Protestant) eschatology.

This proves very instructive TODAY, since the 'futurists' outline of the end times requires the destruction of the Al Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem in order for a Third Temple to be built, reinstating the sacrificial system that Jesus came to remove.

The book End Times Delusions by Steven Wohlberg points all of this out.

What is verrrry interesting is that Hal Lindsey, who popularized the futurist eschatology with his '70s book Late Great Planet Earth, is a CIA consultant. Further interesting tidbit is that the CIA was originally populated with many Knights of Malta, a Catholic organization. This is really weird, since KOM -- originally the Knights Hospitallers-- were the enemy of the Freemasons, who originated in the Knights Templar, as John J. Robinson points out in his books Born In Blood: The Lost Secrets of Freemasonry and Dungeon, Fire and Sword: The Knights Templar in the Crusades.

http://www.alibris.com/search/books/author/Robinson,%20John%20J

Until very recently, Masons were anathema to the Popes. You can see that the feeling was mutual from the incident of the "Theft of the Pope's Stone" with the Washington Monument http://www.nps.gov/wamo/history/chap3.htm

The CIAs founders, William 'Wild Bill' Donovan, James Jesus Angleton, Allen Dulles, John McCone, Bill Casey, were Knights of Malta. So was Reinhard Gehlen, Hitler's intelligence chief. But the real story here is the neo-cons use of this eschatology and the obvious TROUBLE in the Middle East that is predictable from the Third Temple requirements 'futurist' ideological eschatology brings !

It is also fascinating that current day Protestant denominations have 'bought' the Jesuit originated end times delusions.

The political implications need exploring. Hopefully DUs forum is up to the task.

[EVDebs]

5. "Day of Deceit" book by Robert Stinnett, friend of GHW Bush

you know, the family that tried to overthrow FDR

www.ihffilm.com/r547.html

that was only prevented by USMC Gen. Smedley D. Butler (2x CMOH ) who blew the whistle on the attempted coup d'etat. Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker were members of the coup plotters who wanted to establish fascism in the US. Apparently with Shrub they have succeeded after all.

Day of Deceit, no, not about 9-11 ! but about Pearl Harbor, seeks to show FDRs foreknowledge of the Japanese intentions to attack Pearl Harbor ... and his LIHOP. Apparently this is supposed to be the neocons "excuse" for their actions in the current LIHOP involving The New Pearl Harbor, PNAC's 9-11 events.

We'll see about that.

[EVDebs]

10. DUers, please recommend for Greatest Page ! n/t

[Felix Mala]

12. Want return to gilded age valhalla... when only rich and powerful

made the decisions. Majority of people stayed poor and in their place and the only 'elites' were the pampered offspring of the ruling classes. No social safety nets, no wage-work week laws, no problem with children working, no income tax.

[DeepModem Mom]

13. Rewriting history -- tyrants always do it. nt

[Helga Scow Stern]

14. Maybe they are worried because of Warm Springs....

a wonderful movie on HBO this month, showing the compassionate side of FDR and how he found his populist roots through helping others with polio.

[NYCGirl]

23. What a lovely movie that is. The "values voters" should watch it and find

out what real values are.

[applegrove]

16. They, neocons, are never at fault. They have to blame FDR for all

of communism so that they, neocons, get to take a pass on their behavior in the Middle East (fighting communism so we had to get with dictators, Saddam, Saudi Elites, etc... who all just increased Islamism..not our fault..we had to fight communism...the fault of FDR...reallly).

They also blame Woodrow Wilson for Hitler & WWII. Apparently Woodrow caused too much guilt within the German people..all by himself. Hitler would never have tried to take over and murder, scapegoat, bait, try & take over the world.. if it had not been for Woodrow Wilson. (The point being that right wing aggressive tribalists who promote corporatism .. as fascists are... are not inherently wrong (or even ever wrong) and if they cause a genocide..it is the fault of some Liberal somewhere).


Rumsfield blames Turkey for not allowing him to invade Iraq from the north. That is why there is an insurgency. Not his fault for changing all the generals assumptions and cutting down the fighting force necessary in Iraq from 400,000 souls to 150,000 (or whatever). No - it is the fault of Turkish liberals.

THESE UTOPIANS HAVE HIT LIFTOFF. They can no longer gage when a myth acts more like a cartoon. They drink too much of their own ****.

[Daphne08]

17. Yes, I've noticed!

He is the antithesis of everything the hard Right believes, and they probably learned it all at their mother's knee. (I'm certain the President did)

I grew up believing that FDR saved this country and I had never heard anything to the contrary until... well, until the 1980's, I believe. (I may be incorrect in this since my memory is not what it used to be when I was young.)

[gordianot]

19. I tend to look at what used to be the American right as American radicals.

Just wonder if Joe Lieberman knew what kissed him during the State of the Union address? Yes sir WWII was not worth the post war consequences as so aptly described by that great intellect who occupies the White House.

:sarcasm:


Every day the revisionist American radical right gets a little bolder. When the WWII generation is gone they will become more uncontrollable.

[zbdent]

20. I've been trying to find an Akron Beacon Journal article from the mid-90s

where a Repuke candidate for some office IN OHIO said that he heard about the attack on Pearl Harbor, and his father said this about FDR:

"That damn cripple got us into a war!"

I would so love to find that article. It would show the hypocrisy of the Reich, er, Right. Somehow, I don't think that the Repuke son fell too far from the nut . . .

[rockedthevoteinMA]

21. Did anyone else hear about the paper * supposedly wrote while

in college, talking about getting rid of SS, and how FDR was the worst thing that ever happened to the US? I forget where I heard that, maybe in a documentary, or on AAR. :shrug:

[EVDebs]

29. It was Bush's MBA professor's comments

Originally published on Friday, July 16, 2004 in the News section of The Harvard Crimson.
Former HBS Prof Blasts Bush

"Tsurumi said he particularly recalls Bush’s right-wing extremism at the time, which he said was reflected in off-hand comments equating the New Deal of the 1930s with socialism and the corporation-regulating Securities and Exchange Commission with “an enemy of capitalism.”

“I vividly remember that he made a comment saying that people are poor because they’re lazy,” Tsurumi said."

http://www.able2know.com/forums/about29063.html

No mention that Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker were in on the coup attempt to overthrow FDR
www.ihffilm.com/r547.html
that failed only because USMC Gen Butler blew the whistle !

[Cell Whitman]

22. 1984 - "Whoever controls the past controls the future.

... Whoever controls the present controls the past."

We are 1984. http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984.htm

from part 3 chapter 2

http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/1984/1984_c20.htm

'There is a Party slogan dealing with the control of the past,' he said. 'Repeat it, if you please.'

'"Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past,"' repeated Winston obediently.

'"Who controls the present controls the past,"' said O'Brien, nodding his head with slow approval. 'Is it your opinion, Winston, that the past has real existence?'

Again the feeling of helplessness descended upon Winston. His eyes flitted towards the dial. He not only did not know whether 'yes' or 'no' was the answer that would save him from pain; he did not even know which answer he believed to be the true one.

O'Brien smiled faintly. 'You are no metaphysician, Winston,' he said. 'Until this moment you had never considered what is meant by existence. I will put it more precisely. Does the past exist concretely, in space? Is there somewhere or other a place, a world of solid objects, where the past is still happening?'

'No.'

'Then where does the past exist, if at all?'

'In records. It is written down.'

'In records. And --?'

'In the mind. In human memories.'

'In memory. Very well, then. We, the Party, control all records, and we control all memories. Then we control the past, do we not?'
_________



Learn who tilled the field.



http://cellwhitman.blogspot.com/

[EVDebs]

26. Right on the money. See post #9 eom

[ReadTomPaine]

24. When they are done with him, past civil rights leaders will be next.

Look for the return of the 'natural role'.

[Miss Chybil]

27. This is how they want us to live again... Republican Wet Dream

[WLKjr]

28. looks just like what my grandpa and grandma always described

food lines, joblessness, and no sense of pride left in anyone becuase no one had anything during that time.

[CBHagman]

30. I think you're on to something.

The other week I was appalled to find a Regnery book in the history section of the bookstore where I work. Mind you, we're an independent bookstore and get more business from the moderate to liberal, but some of the usual wacky stuff turns up and is occasionally sought by customers.

The book in question is apparently an attempt to spin the whole of American history from a right-wing point of view -- i.e., that the Founding Fathers were identifiably conservatives (at least by today's GOP standards), that communists were swarming through the State Department, that the War on Poverty made people poorer, etc. I almost wanted to wash my hands after picking up the book.

By the way, the other thing I've noticed about the Bush administration in particular is that they are practically posing for the statues right now. At every opportunity, they try to link themselves to some long-dead leader (Churchill comes to mind) and sometimes they suggest that they are superior to the leaders of yesteryear because -- wouldn't you know it -- they're avoiding all the mistakes of yesteryear. Huh.

They also co-opt dead Democrats' legacies wherever possible, but we all know that Harry Truman and Daniel Patrick Moynihan and all the others would have seen them for what they are.

[Robert Oak]

31. YUP, History Channel

'rewriting history once again' their 4 hour bio started out with how Roosevelt's
new deal "didn't work" and unemployment was 22% in 1941.

Blatant bold faced lie, unemployment was 14% and the supreme court
stopped much of Roosevelt's new deal.

Then, tried to imply he was "Ladies man"...more the dude fell in love
with someone else...a clearly major tragedy for all..
and anybody notice, someone paralyzed and disabled, can't exactly
be a Ladies man????

The ads for the show talked about how Roosevelt ran a "secret" government...is this somehow supposed to justify the Neocons?

(And he did not, he was in fact a master politician more like)

He's in the top 5 best Presidents of all time, he saved their
crappy capitalism from utter revolution through basic social
institutions and Keynesian economics..saved the banking system..

lead the nation in the biggest economic crisis the modern world
had ever seen and into the worst and utter horrific war
the world had ever seen.

It's just way too much to see this utter disrespect for such a great leader and shows they do not care about the United States and it's principles...Neocons and their corporate propaganda machine care
about power.

They also obviously do not care about truth...for "rewriting history"
to reflect what one wants people to believe is just unbelievable..
but then so many "studies" are now becoming biased propaganda instead
of truth and fact...

well, it's shows erosion at the very framework that holds the United
States together.