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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:45 PM
Original message
One of Edwards' two major impediments is now completely gone
(Sorry if I'm not too good with thread-tending today, I'm about to step onto a very long flight)

The two major impediments I see are Youth/"Inexperience" and unelectability. The latter is now completely gone. With a very solid second in Iowa and currently a competitive fourth in New Hampshire, the dismissal of him having no chance is COMPLETELY gone. That's huge. He is now "in the game" in the eyes of the masses, and that's just peachy.

As for the other, the "youth" issue is one that one either gets past, or doesn't; the experience issue is one that can be dispelled by the following analysis of his extreme confidence and clearheadedness under fire.

His performance in the debate last night was assured and enthralling, although I missed the Islam question and about half of the show. His response on guns was great: he didn't try to puff up and be a tough guy and claim that he's a gun totin' bohunk like all good men (like a Begala would) and he ANSWERED the question. It was couched with "was John Kerry right..." and "what laws would you enact", and he responded immediately that yes, Kerry was exactly right, and he went on to get specific about the gun show loophole, the Brady Bill and other things.

Here's an example of this man's genius: Dianne Sawyer was trying to trip him up with the gay marriage issue on 60 Minutes, and when asked "do you support it", he immediately said "no". When asked "why not?", he said "the country's not ready for it." This is such a good answer on so many levels: it shows that he's in touch with how much progress the country can make, it shows that the will of the people is a major issue to him, it doesn't let them pin him down on his personal tastes too much by giving a definitive answer and it's a straightforward answer. He does not shy away from the expression of societal obligation to those of non-traditional relationships, but he knows how to shut off a question that's designed to screw him.

Presentation and self-control are major issues in this office; possession of them don't "prove" slickness or dishonesty, they show skill.

I'll check in in about 14 hours, so I hope you all give this a look-see...

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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. isnt' the third one the fake layer smile ? That is still there...
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 03:47 PM by creativelcro
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. What do you say about a man who seems totally sincere and movtivated by
strong convictions?

You say he's an insincere, faky performer, with a fake layer smile.

Just like Fred Barnes did in the Weekly Standard today.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. The point is that he does not seem sincere to me....
Starting from the hair and the fakey smile...
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. But thing is, he seems totally sincere to lots of people, and the genuine-
ness of his concern for Americans, his biography, and his convicitions (real or not) are extremely apparent.

Nobody is going to totally agree on everything, so that's great that your insincerity detector is going off. But the the reason this will be a popular line of attack is becuase OBVIOUSLY for each person like you, there will be 1000 people whose sincerticy detector is going to off the scale with Edwards.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Fake smile? Have you caught him doing his "real smile" when no one looking
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 04:25 PM by beaconess
And how is his hair "insincere?"

Jeez.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Damned if you do...
damned if you don't. Edwards is cute except for that mole and fake smile, but really too cute, actually. Can't vote for him. However, Kucinich looks like an elf, Dean has no neck, Sharpton has bad hair, Kerry's scary/ugly... and so on.../sarcasm off!!!

Exactly what is our candidate supposed to look/smile like--The Chimperor?
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. WHAT is fake about his smile?
Do you think it's not a real smile? Is it not his actual smile? Do you think he never means it when he smiles?

Please explain.
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
37. Rush always accused Clinton
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:22 AM by Lex
of having a fake smile and being insincere.

He even said Clinton was "faking" shedding tears at the Oklahoma Fed. bombing, during the memorial service there.

Rush said "Did you see how fake Clinton's tears were? He is so insincere. It is all just a show."

Sad when one Democrat starts it against others.

"Edwards has a fake smile." Hmmmmm . . .
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StopTheMorans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Edwards is my man now, but you forgot the main argument about
him: inexperience on national security, that's what everyone's trying to hit him with now. I personally think it's a strawman...
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Edwards Will Really WORK That I/P Issue
won'e he.

Right after he "beats Bush in his own backyard".
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. John Kennedy
was considered young and inexperienced too. Wouldn't it be nice if Edwards could give the young people and older ones too the feeling that we could accomplish good things as JFK did. I like Kerry best but Edwards is very good.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. how much foreign policy experience did w. have
four years ago?

at 50, edwards is older than kennedy and clinton were when they were elected. only four years younger than w. was. his handicap is that he looks 35.

i agree about the fake smile, though. it's pretty irritating.
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nannygoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Way less irritating than chimpy's smirk, though, you have to admit...n/t
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. I don't get the "fake smile" criticism
He smiles a lot. He smiles the same smile. Do you think that everytime he hears something funny or that makes him happy, he's standing there thinking, "OK, John, wait a minute. Don't do your real smile. Remember to give the 'fake' one."

If you've got a problem with Edwards platform or ideas, fine. But the "fake smile" bash is really weird.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Take your enemy's strength and make it a weakness. Gore seems smater than
Bush. Gore is a poindexter. See how that works? It's as easy as Do Re Mi. So sing after me. "Smile is fa-key."
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I think I've got it!
the first three slams just happen to be . .
trial lawyer
fakey smile
insincere hair
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. By george, she's got it!
LOL--"insincere hair"!

The hair slams also crack me up. I mean, how many options does a 50 year old guy have for how he does his hair in 2004? Hmm, maybe John would look better with a nice, genuine perm.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. LOL!
He's been wearing his hair like that for years and years. And if he changed it now into a more "sincere" style (whatever that might be - a crew cut?), he'd get slammed for not knowing who he is, being a Gore, earthtone wearing student of Naomi Wolf, blah blah blah.

I think people are just pissed off that at 50, he has a full head of hair.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. I'm pissed off that it's not gray. Mine started turning in my 20s. Damn.
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Namvet04 Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. He will make Bill Clinton his Sect of State
Solves that problem.
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maxr4clark Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yeah, he's really cute.
:)

If Edwards wants to reform the campaign finance and lobbying systems after half a term in the Senate, he should first show that he can win reelection without special interest supporters. Then maybe I'd believe he knows how the system should work rather than just having had a tour of how it currently works. Knowing it's broken doesn't show you know how to fix it, he's asking for a big leap of faith there.

The cut for electability in Iowa was third. I think people have said the same about NH, except for Dean who now needs to take at least second. After taking second in Iowa, I think there is a big difference between third and fourth for Edwards in NH.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. I think that would be fair if we expected it of all the candidates.
If the system is as powerful as he says it is, you cannot expect even the candidate opposing it to win by a different set of rules. He needs to win first.

Frankly, I do not think that campaign financing is a big issue for most voters, no matter how flawed and in need of change as it is. But maybe Edwards thinks this is a valid way to differentiate himself without attacking fellow Dems, and if so, more power to him.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. Go Edwards!
He did great at the debates.

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. The RW meme on "fakey"
I know that if I were a multi-millionaire at age 45, the one thing I'd want to spend my time doing is running around the state, and later the country, trying to PRETEND to people that I cared about them, so that I could take a job that would cut my pay by 90% and open me up to unfair attacks constantly. Yessirree, that makes a lot of sense.

Have a good trip, POE.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. LOL!
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Now THAT'S funny!
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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
38. Ridiculous, isn't it?
He looks the most relaxed and real of any of the seven, and much moreso than Junior. He even lets himself laugh with a cheery clunkiness and not a whiff of fakery. I totally dispute this line of reasoning; his relaxation is one of the things that wowed me when I first saw him: this guy feels very comfortable in his own skin, and it shows. He laughs heartily when things are funny, and his odd crooked smile lights him up. His standard facial set is neutral, so it's not as if he has a cheesy false smile as his default.

As for that insincere hair, that's just unkempt thinking. He's got a standard parted-on-the-side male haircut--a tad longish--and with that kind of hair, it's an unobtrusive and natural style. (His hair's thick, but it's very fine and straight.)

He literally exudes the power of someone who's well-centered, warm and thoroughly focused. Many who are suspicious of those who have good presentation skills or who are too attractive may often miss the fact that some people like that really are the real item. FDR had panache and elan, and he took the heat for it too, but he was for real.

Thanks for piping up for a nice thread, I just got home.

(And, yes, the flight was fine and the short guys had a great time, too.)
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Great post
Although I can't believe we're spending this much time arguing over the moral integrity of his hair!
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. Gun Issue

I was disappointed that Edwards didn't say anything about the change (in the omnibus bill) made to the amount of time that gun records would be kept. That was a pretty significant change, completely ridiculous - it would have been a great opportunity for him to point it out.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It's kind of hard to mention every important issue in one minute
before that ridiculous bell started ringing.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. lighten up, for god's sake
i'm voting for the guy. he's my #1 choice and has been since the day he announced his candidacy.

but if i want to say his smile looks fake, don't flip out.

and, yes, his hair looks like shit. it's a goofy haircut. but he'll still make an infinitely better president than bush and/or a lot of other people running.

we spend all day criticizing the guy who's president now. what, we can't criticize one who's running for the office?
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. I didn't flip out - just asked why you think his smile is fake and his
hair is insincere.

If that's the best that they'll be able to come up with against Edwards, he and Elizabeth should start measuring for curtains.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. good point
if that's the best they can come up with, you're 100% right.

not to go all kennedy/camelot, but little kids in the white house would be cool.

but i think his smile looks fake because it ...... looks fake. but that's just me. is it a politician's smile? a lawyer's smile? or the smile of a kid from humble stock who worked hard to make something of himself. who knows. not me.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I think it's definitely the grin of a guy who is genuinely happy
has never forgotten where he comes from, adores and is adored by his family, knows he's been blessed, and who understands how precious every minute is.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
27. You left out one - His vote for the IWR.
He won't win without the left.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. 81% of Democrats voting in Iowa thought other things were more important.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. At some point, MOST people on the left will do the right thing
and vote to kick AWOL out of office. They will realize what a great President John Edwards will be, and how he will work to make the American dream a reality for all Americans.

I think he has the most beautiful, genuine smile that always makes me smile back.

And I am, quite frankly, shocked that anyone would question the sincerity of his hair.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. LOL - I agree. What has his hair ever done to them?
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
36. Kick for JE
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
39. I consider Edwards' youth and electability to be in his favor....
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 03:54 AM by flaminbats
Edwards two biggest challenges have always been the same..first against him is lack of a campaign agenda. He could have won Iowa if he had embraced a universal healthcare plan, a complete repeal of the taxcuts, and more on the issue of election reform. The second biggest impediment is winning the nomination, and at this point Edwards is a long-shot...although he is doing better than Dennis Kucinich!
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I just don't believe that in the GE, Americans are ready to vote for a
single payer (govt) health plan. I assume that is what you mean by universal healthcare, since JE does propose a vast public-private health care change. To a lot of people, it sounds as if you're going to take away their choice of beloved doctors and send them to understaffed, dirty clinics where they will have to wait in line for hours. I think you have to ease into it in steps, and that is what JE is proposing. He can't honestly advocate one thing in the primaries and (if successful) a different thing in the GE.

Didn't Dean support a complete repeal of the taxcuts? I believe he garnered only 18% of the vote. While many factors are at play, I don't see a basis for proposing that was an issue that beat Edwards.

As I have posted elsewhere, I do not believe that the average Iowan or American cares much about campaign financing reform. They don't see it as affecting their daily lives, and many people think that there will always be a way for big money to get around the system. Jobs, the economy, terrorism matter more to them.

So I really don't think those things kept him from winning Iowa. I suspect the main factors are that John Kerry's name has been known for a longer time, to more people, and Edwards has less $ for ads, and Kerry is seen as more experienced in govt., which may be comforting to people who are nervous about too much change.
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