Do you think the "Greatest" page is useful?

[Clarkie1]

Poll question: Do you think the "Greatest" page is useful?

After many months on DU, I finally discoverd how to navigate to the "greatest" page today. I must admit I'm not sure if I find it useful. There are a lot of threads there, and it doesn't take much longer just to look through the tread titles on the various forums anyway. Also, the threads that get voted to greatest page are the ones that are probably going to get "kicked" more because more people are responding anyway.

This is especially true since the threads on the greatest page only stay there for 24 hours:

"The Greatest Page lists discussion topics which have been recommended by DU members. Topics can be recommended for 24 hours after they are first posted on our message board. This page shows topics that have received at least three recommendations, and topics remain on the page for 24 hours."

Also, what is "greatest" is obviously a matter of opinion. I checked out several threads just now on the "greatest" page and I'm not sure why people thought they were more important than other threads that weren't on the greatest page.

I hope the moderators don't mind me asking this, I'm just honestly curious if people find the "greatest" page useful.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. Perhaps the qualifications a thread must have are not stringent enough.

[kevsand]

4. I've thought that for a while now. nt

[cestpaspossible]

17. It should take like twenty votes

or maybe the twenty threads with the most recomendations in the last 24 hour period.

[KittyWampus]

29. Yes, It Seems Everyone Has Different Criteria For Deciding What Makes

a "Greatest".

And with no real ground rules from Admin. it leaves things kind of open.

[paineinthearse]

2. This mirrors a post I made yesterday

The "greatest" page is the greatest thing since sliced bread. When entering DU from being away for a while I read, in series, the HOME and the GREATEST pages. It gives a rapid sense of what has been going on.

The "greatest" page is the antithesis of how unimportant or stale posts sink. With 3 votes, posts in forums one may not often venture into are visible to all.

If you were unaware of how it works, or find yourself staying in one or two forums, give it a try.....broaden your horizons!

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Uh, no, it does not mirror your post, since you like the GP and the

opening poster doesn't think it's so great, an opinion I share. Too many people are voting meaningless threads to the "Greatest" page.

[bvar22]

3. I LOVE the GREATEST Page.

It is a regular part of my navigation at DU.
I don't use it exclusively, but it is a very quick way to find out Whats Happening at DU.

However, I would eliminate threads from The Lounge from the Greatest Page. I use DU as a source of Latest News and Political Events, so threads from The Lounge on The Greatest Page are just a nuisance.

[0007]

22. I'll second that!

[kevsand]

5. I've rarely gone there.

I go to the Discussion Threads page first, and from there to the various forums. Just my habit, I guess...

[KaliTracy]

6. I have been trying to venture out to more forums, and find this a good way

to see what is going on overall - especially since my viewing time is quite limited.

[Rowdyboy]

7. Rarely check it out and really resent that its caused so much trouble....

Maybe it would make things easier to just ditch it.

[welshTerrier2]

8. Proposed Change

i'm concerned that this allows special interest groups to obtain prime real estate ...

i'd like to suggest that DU'ers should be limited to the number of "greatest votes" they can make in a given period of time ... no idea what the right number would be ...

it could be one vote per day per forum or 3 votes a week or 10 votes a month or whatever ... putting a limit into effect might make people be a little more selective ... some of those "greatest" threads aren't the greatest ...

[janx]

42. That's a very good idea. I like the Greatest Page,

but it has been abused. More selectivity would be a very good thing and could only serve to improve it. :toast:

[Crunchy Frog]

9. I just find it another source of divisiveness and conflict and

resentment. I agree, threads that are of interest will keep getting kicked by people who respond to them, while threads that aren't will end up sinking.

Right now I'm just waiting to see how long it will be before this poll gets locked.

[iconoclastNYC]

27. Disagree

Articles also get kicked by flame wars.

I like the greatest page b/c i dont go into all the forums...if you dont like the greatest page why not just ignore it?

[Crunchy Frog]

32. Well, you can ignore the page,

but you can't ignore insinuations or outright accusations that different groups of people are gaming it for the sake of various agendas, and you can't ignore when you're a member of one of the groups getting accused.

Groups of posters are now using the "Greatest" page to go around accusing other groups of posters. I see that as divisive, even when I'm guilty of throwing those accusations around myself. If you don't see that kind of behavior as divisive, you're entitled to your opinion.

[iconoclastNYC]

37. I really don't understand what you are saying....

How do you use the greatest page to make accusations?

[Crunchy Frog]

40. I should make myself clearer.

People are using which threads get voted to the "Greatest" page to make accusations against various different groups of "gaming" the system. All you have to do to see that is to look in the ATA forum.

[melnjones]

10. I didn't even know

what it was until all this drama started. I also agree- 3 votes isn't very many to put something on the greatest page. It would make sense to at least require more votes. Personally I use the Latest page to get an overview of stuff happening in other places on DU.

[ginnyinWI]

11. I use it all the time

That way I get pre-sorted posts and only have to read the most interesting ones if I don't have a lot of time. Keep it up!

[Califooyah Operative]

12. Yes.

I use it all the time, I check the greatest first for urgent/important news, then I go to latest breaking then gen/Pol..

It's a good way to alert others of important issues/actions,etc.

[stevedeshazer]

13. Dislike it.

It quickly turned into a popularity contest. Little cliques vote each other's posts up all the time.

[vikegirl]

14. Great idea and intentions.....

but don't see the point since all the interesting threads are constantly "kicked."

[Nostradammit]

15. This gives an overview of all forums, though.

I think it's damn convenient.

And I think it's pretty obvious when a group is trying to astroturf something or other on the greatest page. I was just over at FreeRepublic.con to see if there was any reaction to the Guckert sleepovers and was once again reassured by the utter lack of artistry in their forum. Just butt-ugly and user-unfriendly as it's possible to be.

Just what you'd expect from a pack of orcs. They may have taken over the government for the time being, but creativity is the most powerful tool one can have.

God help me, I love DU.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. I don't think it's all that obvious.

I think it can be very easy to jump to conclusions, especially if you see a thread up there that you don't find of particular interest, and can't imagine how it can have gotten so many votes. But in a community this size, there may have been many people who did find it of interest and voted for it.

Then again, cases of real astroturfing may be overlooked or ignored simply because that particular group isn't under a cloud of suspicion.

In a community this size, it's really impossible to know who is voting for a particular thread and what their motivations are. If there was some set of criteria or rules for how and why people should vote for "Greatest" page, then it might be easier to gauge abuse. But there aren't any criteria. There just has to be a large enough group of people who see a thread and like it to zap it onto the page.

And it's very easy for people to read and project all kinds of motivations, plots and agendas into what they see there without really knowing anything about people's real reasons.

I love DU too, but I hate all the infighting and all the divisiveness and all the accusations that get flung around. Sometimes I think we do more collective tearing up of Democrats than they ever do on Free Republic.

[Nothing Without Hope]

16. The Greatest Page is EXCELLENT, but there are ways to improve it further

to keep really important posts visible for more than 24 hours, when their threads may just be reaching their peak of interest. There is also the long-term problem of needing a way to browse through through important threads from weeks and months past.

Simple partial fix - make threads stay on Greatest page more than one day if they receive over a set high number of votes. The numbers could be worked out. For example, maybe threads with more than 10 votes could stay 2 days and threads with more than 20 votes could stay 3 days. (I'm assuming that the votes would still be counted only in the first 24 hours after posting.)

More complete fix - would take more planning and work to set up - some kind of long-term, browsable, searchable collection of best/most popular/most important threads - the ones from the Home Page plus the ones with a high number of member votes. The Demopedia cannot serve this function, since it is too big to browse. Having a "best threads" Forum where home page/high-vote (more than 3, I would think) threads could be stored and searched by date would help, though it's not exactly what I'm grappling for here.

[tommcintyre]

18. ABSOLUTELY! A big timesaver for me.

Most of my time here must be devoted to the 2004 ER&D forum. But I make it a habit to ck the Greatest Page at least once every 24 hrs. I'm now seeing lot of "stuff" I just wouldn't hve time for before.

(Like this thread. ;) )

[liberalla]

19. I also like it !

It's my starting point at DU. Before I discovered the Greatest page, I really stayed in 2 or 3 forums. I was hear for the Election info. "Greatest" has introduced me to a lot of other forums at DU.

Obviously, if you don't like it, don't use it! Resume your former method of browsing at DU. Leave it for those of us that do like it.

[Tesla]

20. PLEASE DON'T TAKE IT!!!!

I go to Latest first, then Greatest next.
It saves alot of time.

I try to always vote on the ones I would like to have legs.
I think if everyone would use their right to vote and take it seriously, it could be a great time saving tool.

[rman]

21. I'm confused - what exactly IS the "greatest page"?

I (think i) know articles can be nominated for the DU front (home) page. Is that the same as nominating for "Greatest page"?
I know there's sort of a sub-set of forums under the demoninator "Greatest" - but those seem to be the only forums i can access. When i click on for instance "General Discussion" in the Lobby or Latest, i do end up in "Lobby / Latest / Greatest > General Discussion". Same for "DU Groups" etc.
I cannot access "Latest / General Discussion" as it used to be before the "Greatest" forums were introduced, but maybe that's how it's supposed to work.
For all i know we were/are supposed to be able to nominate posts in a "Latest" forum for its "Latest / Greatest" equivalent, and i seem to recall it's possible to nominate for front page as well - but under each post is only one "nominate" link.
So like i said: i'm confused.

[enough]

24. I think it is a great addition to DU.

I don't always have time to go through everything on the "Latest," and this gives me a way to see if there's something important I have missed without going through every forum (which takes even more time).

So its a convenience and a sort of "sense of the meeting" about what DUers are most concerned about at any given time. It doesn't keep me from going to my favorite forums to see what's happening there.

The fact that posts only stay at the top of the "Greatest" if they keep getting votes clears away the occasional chaff that may make it to the page.

I think it's working well at three votes to get on the page.

[myrna minx]

25. I love the greatest page,

There are so many interesting threads that I would miss without it.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

30. I agree with that.

When you see a thread like this,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1736130

that has ten votes for the "Greatest" page, and when you also know, on top of that, that there are two separate secret Kerry forums, you can pretty much put two and two together and figure out that the system is being gamed.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

38. Based on a thread that I read on the Kerry forum

I'm betting that it was. But I agree with you. They should check.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

44. Actually, it's very easy to go over there and investigate for yourself.

It's either on the first page, or near the top of the second page. It's a healthy exercise to do some of your own research and it's quite an interesting forum to read.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

48. No, just asking you to do a little of your own work

to answer your own questions. It's an interesting forum to familiarize yourself with, as are many of the other ones on this board. I will tell you that right now it's the second thread from the bottom of the first page. You can probably do the rest of the work for yourself. You'll probably conclude something different than what I did too because your natural instinct is to believe the absolute worst about Clark supporters and to give everyone else the benefit of the doubt.

I know nothing I say will change that, so I'm not even bothering to try anymore.

[Nostradammit]

45. Help me out here, Crunchy Frog -

In post #34 you say it's not obvious and here you say you can figure out when it's being gamed.

:shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

54. It's not obvious. I guess I was going out of my way to demonstrate

how it can encourage suspicion and accusations against different groups of people.

I honestly don't know why a particular thread got 10 nominations, who nominated it, what their motivations were, whether they organized to nominate in off site or if people just liked it and nominated it spontaneously, or if people nominated it maliciously in order to make other people look bad.

Nobody knows. But the whole thing encourages people to become suspicious of each other and throw around insinuations and accusations and I find that divisive.

[Nostradammit]

55. The whole thing encourages me to recommend threads I like -

How is that divisive?

{I asked, non-divisively}

[Crunchy Frog]

56. It's divisive if I start accusing you of "freeping" the "Greatest" page

for reccomending threads that you like. Just like some of the rest of us have been accused.

Would you consider it divisive if I accused you of "freeping"?

[Nostradammit]

57. No, I'd consider it ridiculous.

But then, that's just me.

I would say that the possibility of division is greatly outweighed by the benefits of increased visibility of important, galvanising information.

K?

[Crunchy Frog]

58. Actually, I think the disappearance of the ATA forum

where people go to make these accusations against each other is a very good thing, and maybe will see an end to people being accused of freeping.

I think that may be a better solution than getting rid of the "Greatest" page.

I'm glad you wouldn't mind being publicly called out and accused of freeping. Not everybody is as comfortable with it as you seem to be though, and that sort of thing is used to attack people and foment divisiveness.

But hopefully all that is in the past now.

[johnaries]

28. YES! I love it! I visit it every time I log on. n/t

[annabanana]

31. When my time is limited..

and for some bizarre reason I can't stay glued to my screen for the requisite hours to read EVERYTHING THAT LOOKS INTERESTING..........
I trust the judgment of the majority of DUers to winnow the stack to things that I really,
shouldn't,
miss!

[LincolnMcGrath]

33. Yes, I find the greatest page useful

[Adelante]

36. I think it would be better off moderated

Let the threads receive 20 votes and then a moderator review them and decide what is "greatest" -- or possibly a small committee of DUers -- as it stands, the system is not rational in that interest groups can and do vote for their interests. Just human nature, no matter what the interest may be. One day it's all Catholic threads, the next day it's all anti-Catholic threads, for a current example, yet many DUers are avoiding those threads entirely, so they are important not to DU, necessarily, but to the participants in this controversy.

I've maybe voted 3 or 4 times and looked at the page possibly the same number of times, so I don't have a strong interest in it. It just seems to be carrying a lot of trouble for DU. It isn't working.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blueblitzkrieg]

39. Yes!

Especially if I only have a few minutes to drop in and check out the DU boards. Gives me a quick way to read the hot topics on DU. :thumbsup:

[Jimbo S]

43. When I'm here but only have a few minutes

I can go to the Greatest Page and quickly scan over the hot threads without wading through all the different forums.

[lostnfound]

49. I think some reminders or guidance of what types of threads should

be recommended would be a good idea. Don't change the rules, just clarify what is the goal: i.e., are they looking for DU original material, or for threads that no one should miss?

Sometimes I wonder. Sometimes I want to 'recommend' simply because I think a thread is important, but it doesn't necessarily contain original information, just an important article.

One goal is to get stuff 'out there' to outsiders, another goal is to help regulars find the most important stuff quickly.

[erichzann]

50. This noob thinks it's a good idea, though I didn't know about it

<wave>

[paineinthearse]

53. erichzann

welcome to DU :hi:

[CrispyQ]

51. I would like to see more votes to make the Greatest page,

but once it makes it, I would like the threads to stay for 48 hours.

[paineinthearse]

52. Agree....as well as a longer nomination period.

Perhaps 10 votes over 72 hours?