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Should Clark have sat it out again?

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:02 AM
Original message
Should Clark have sat it out again?
FAUX is not a real network. The thing is, with debates you're setting yourself up to answer questions from the likes of Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes.

With Town Hall meetings, Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes can't ask questions.

Freepers set "debates" as traps, and all the Dems are too happy to walk into them.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. No
I want to see how the AWOL thing plays out.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. It could be Clarks
finest moment. Fox and Tweety are not jounalist. I haven't heard anything about it from CNN.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. No, Clark did fine
And it is only a trap if we let it be a trap. If we echo the crap the media says and use it against him, then we are the ones who are doing the dirty work. I won't have it. As much as I really dislike Clark, the reason he won't be elected is because I didn't vote for him, not because Fox decided to play dirty tricks.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Why do you dislike Clark so much?
He seems like a nice enough guy...Grandpa and all.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. My reasons are many
and fairly lengthy. I'm compiling an essay "Who is Wesley Clark?" that I'm going to post on the website in my signature. Very little of it is the standard stuff you see here. I don't think he is a GOP agent or a baby killer, or war criminal, etc.

It is really the little things about his positions and due to his history, no way of truly verifying any of them. A little of it does have to do with SOA and Vieques and a little stems from his being a military person who has never served in elected office before.

None of it matters, because I'm not in the business to convince people NOT to vote for him. This is just MY opinion. And at the end of the day, I will defend Clark against a Goreing as readily as I will defend Dean. Right now, that is all that matters. I'm not looking to stop anyone, I'm only interested in propelling Dean forward.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Original message
only if he was planning on quitting
he was wrong to sit the others out as well although I can understand why he did.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. No, you have to take your lumps.
Not campaigning in Iowa allowed him to not really be interested in the Iowa debates. New Hampshire is a different story.

As much as I would have liked for him to have a stronger showing, I would have hated that he missed it.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. Huh?Clark Knows He's Playing Big League
and he did okay for someone who's never run a political campaign.

He's run military campaigns though and has lots of pros on his team.

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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Clark did fine
The AWOL thing will end up working in Clark's favor. Remeber it was the Boston Globe that reported the AWOL story in 2000
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
8. What's the deal?
Relax! Clark can handle Faux just fine - he's proven himself on THAT account, time and time again. Even tonight - I think he was good - there weren't any real stellar moments in the entire debate (well, I DID think that Sharpton's line to Dean was funny) - but this is the reality of campaigning.

We Clark supporters need to quit listening to so much Faux spin after the debate! He's the last one who would bail out on a debate or interview just because the atmosphere is not friendly - and we wouldn't want him to!
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Toucano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Nothing wrong with Clark's answers.
It was the stupid questions they gave him.

I think he's been asked about his "Democratic credentials" in at least 3 other debates.

I think he has to stop playing by the rules of the debate and take a tip from Sharpton; spend the first 10-15 seconds answering the better question that was asked of the other guy. Otherwise, he'll never break out of the box they want to put him in.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. Chill!!! He did fine!!
We all want our guys to just knock everybody out of their seats every time they open their mouths. They just don't. I wish Kerry had done better. The point tonight was to slide through and not screw up. Nobody did. Not even Howard Dean, thank god. Democrats and Independents believe in the right of people to speak their minds. That's what Clark supported. It's Moore's opinion, he's entitled to it. Good for Clark, Democrats will like it. No big deal.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
11. The debate was bad for Clark, period
I'm not going down the route of blaming anyone but the Clark team for their own mistatkes and fuck-ups. He should have been better prepared. It's not like he showed up only to find it was a Fox debate at the last minute, they knew. Everyone else was at the same debate, too.

Yes, he got hit hard, but that's life in the big leagues.

Kerry's Iowa debate was awful and he went on to win. We will survive this, but I want him better prepared next time.

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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I disagree
If this were the only view people had of Clark, maybe it would have been an "on balance" negative, but remember, Clark's been introducing himself to NH for a month. Nothing he said tonight will change any of THEIR minds, and when he comes out in second place in the primary, he'll have more chances to introduce himself to other voters.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Any of these debates
Could be the first time people see you. People are paying attention now. Before this, I assure you, there were very few watching. The primaries are starting now.

I have no idea what effect this will have on NH voters. But I think it was a mediocre to poor performance. He has to do better, no matter what shit they are slinging at him.

I'm not counting on a second place finish based on one poll, either, that's silly. God knows I want it, but Dean is hardly dead, despite the rumors to that effect.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. he skipped Iowa he had plenty of time to prepare
and he did not.

Why ?

He's certainly smart enough to do the homework necessary.
He's not THAT old that he can't handle the load.
His advisors can't suck THAT bad.

Is he just lazy or making a terrible miscalculation as to the importance ?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
12. Deleted message
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
14. Jack_Dawson in the Titantic Wouldn't Approve of This.
Knock it off.

Wes did fine. Stop worrying.

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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I didn't see it - I simply pose a question
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
18. Clark was great making Bush take responsibility for 911
I loved his statement that excuses about 911 were just that - excuses. If Bush says another attack is "inevitable" than we need to replace him with someone who can make sure it doesn't happen again.
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. He can't
If he does can you imagine the spin they'd put on it. Tonight they only asked him one substantive question on the issues (on the Patriot Act). All the rest were another repeat and how many times do these guys have to keep answering the same questions?! Once again the questions to Clark were set as offense; questioning him being a true Democrat, quoting him out of context, setting him up on the Moore question with a lose/lose option, etc. He answered the Moore question perfectly and honestly but they'll twist that too.

It seems the media forces candidates to become Stepford candidates, to learn to just spout sound bites, keep on message, repeat often in simple terms. He's way too intelligent and a deep thinker to compress his answers into 1 minute answers and that's why debates are not where he shines. Clark is complex, a thinking man who approaches questions and issues from all sides and considers different scenarios and recognizes that things are not always black & white. That's what I want in a candidate. It distinguishes him from the others, maybe it's because he isn't a lifelong politician. The only other major candidate I can say that about is Dean. The others are all good men and good legislators but put them side by side and none stand out.

Clark is a leader who would be the best thing that ever happened to this country. He truly has the best chance of beating Bush. Unfortunately the media has a powerful effect on elections.

Maybe this country isn't ready for a President like Clark. I hope I'm wrong.
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