To all of those who say that a Senator can't win the presidency

[Hippo_Tron]

It's true, only two senators have won the presidency in modern times (Harding and Kennedy), but only 6 have recieved a major party nomination (Kerry, McGovern, Goldwater, and Dole being the other three). Lets take a look at the loosing governors since the election of 1920 (when Senator Warren Harding was elected President).

1920

James M. Cox

1928

Al Smith

1936

Alfred M. Landon

1944 + 1948

Thomas E Dewey

1952 + 1956

Adlai Stevenson

1988

Michael Dukakis

And the winning governors since those elections have been...

FDR, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton

Bottom line...

Major party nominations have gone to a senator 6 times since 1920. Twice has a senator won. Senators that get their party nomination win the presidency 1 out of 3 times.

Major party nominations have gone to a governor 13 times since 1920.
Four Governors have won the presidency since and one stole the election. Governors that get a major party nomination WIN the presidency 4 out of 13 times (roughly 1 out of 3). Even if you do count *'s victory as an actual win it's still 5 out of 13 times which is still roughly 1 out of 3.

BTW another little interesting statistic...

Governors are 0 for 4 in open white house contests. Senators are 2 for 2.

Senators are 0 for 4 as challengers of incumbent presidents. Governors are 4 for 8.

Bottom line... (again)

I'm not saying that we have to have a senator in '08 but there's no reason that we can't. And also, senators tend to do better in open white house contests, '08 is one of those situations.

[NoodleBoy]

1. what happens if you count Humphry and Mondale as Senators?

[Bombtrack]

3. they were former senators.

It would be dishonest to do so.

[Hippo_Tron]

4. They weren't senators though

They were senators at one time but so were Truman and Johnson. Also, Richard Nixon was a congressman at one time and the main argumet against senators is their voting record so the same argument applies.

Humphry was a Vice President and Mondale was a former Vice President. Having been Vice President gives you distinct advantages (name recognition being a BIG one of them) that a senator does not have.

[Bombtrack]

2. thank you. The only person who has "won", by a hundred thousand votes

apparently, after 9-11 is a president.

9-11, and the WOT did lessen governors influence and "gravitas" in national politics.

Dean would have been obliterated on a related note. Not mainly because he was a governor, but partially because the state he was governor of would basically have been seen by America as a mosquito in the national scheme of things, and a left-wing-y mosquito at that.

[Hippo_Tron]

5. Again, I'm not saying that we can't have a Governor

I'm just saying that we shouldn't just discount senators because they are senators. But you are correct that Governors usually have very little foreign policy experience.

BTW, Clark is my second choice for President, Feingold being my first.

My ideal ticket is Feingold/Clark.

[AntiCoup2K4]

6. Bullshit.

Leave the Dean bashing out of this thread. It's got nothing to do with the topic.

Obviously the purpose of this thread is another Feingold boosting thing?

Why??

It's 2005 here. Why the hell, if you really want Russ Feingold to be elected President, are you pushing this now?

It makes me suspicious that some person or persons are trying to get Feingold's name out there now, so by the time the real campaign starts up, even the Democrats will be sick of the guy.

Seriously, we need to do two things right now:

1) Get rid of electro-fraud voting machines.

2) Find a way to get the Democratic message out in 2006, despite the mediawhores, to get Congress out of corporatist fascist Repuke hands.

Then in February 2007, we can start worrying about the Presidency again.

[Hippo_Tron]

7. Did I mention Feingold in the OP?

The purpose of this thread is to show that it is stupid to discount senators just because they are senators, which seems to be a common trend on DU.

BTW I don't condone the Dean bashing either.

[whathappened]

8. wow

havent we seen enought of this old shit that runs , there records go so far back they drag so much bagage with them , it is hard to get them to win big like we need to the next time we elect a presadent , we need new blood in all branches of gov. and throw all the dead in the head one's out on there ear ,

[John_H]

9. Statistics have only have meaning insofar as they

describe a real world problem.

The problem of senators is this: They have tremendous power within the senate and in washington DC. They have limited power in their states, where governors have the machines and even less within the national party aparatus. Even people like the longs were unable to keep contol of their machines or achieve national party muscle when they moved to the senate (see Caro's Master of the Senate/i] for the best discussion I've ever read about the senator for prez problem)

I agree that the media overplays this issue (unless of course Frist is the nominee) but I'd like to se us nominate an outsider or a governor net time around.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. Governors aren't outsiders in this day and age though

Governors are just as much a part of the national party as senators are.

And Huey Long did manage to keep control of his party machinery when he went to the Senate because his flunkie, Oscar K Allen, was Governor.

[LiberalFighter]

10. Senators that became Presidents

It takes more than being just a Senator.

James Monroe
1783-1786 Continental Congress Member
1790-1794 Senator
1794-1796 Minister to France
1799-1802 Governor of Virginia
1803-1807 Minister to France and England
1811-1817 Secretary of State
1814-1815 Secretary of War
1817-1825 President
-----------------------------------------------------

John Quincy Adams
1794-1794 Minister to the Netherlands
1797-1801 Minister to Prussia
1803-1808 Senator
1809-1811 Minister to Russia
1814-1814 Peace Commissioner at Treaty of Ghent
1817-1825 Secretary of State
1825-1829 President
1831-1848 Representative
-----------------------------------------------------

Andrew Jackson
1796-1797 Representative
1797-1798 Senator
1798-1804 Justice on Tennessee Supreme Court
1812-1821 War of 1812 / Battle of New Orleans
1821-1821 Governor of Florida Territory
1823-1825 Senator
1829-1837 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Martin Van Buren
1821-1829 Senator
1829-1829 Governor New York
1829-1831 Secretary of State
1831-1831 Minister to England
1833-1837 Vice President
1837-1841 President
-----------------------------------------------------

William Henry Harrison
1798-1798 Secretary of Northwest Territory
1799-1801 Territorial Delegate to Congress
1801-1813 Territorial Governor of Indiana
1813-1814 Brigadier General US Army, Commander in Northwest
1816-1819 Ohio Congressman
1819-1821 Ohio Senate
1825-1828 Senator
1828-1829 Minister to Colombia
1841-1841 President
-----------------------------------------------------

John Tyler
1811-1816 Virginia House of Delegates Member
1816-1821 US Representative
1823-1825 Virginia State Legislator
1825-1826 Governor of Virginia
1827-1836 Senator
1841-1841 Vice President
1841-1845 President (Never Elected)
1861-1862 Confederate States Congress Member
-----------------------------------------------------

Franklin Pierce
1829-1833 New Hampshire Legislature
1833-1837 US Representative
1837-1842 Senator
1847- Brigadier-General Mexican War
1853-1857 President
-----------------------------------------------------

James Buchanan
1815-1816 Pennsylvania House of Representatives Member
1821-1831 US Representative
1832-1834 Minister to Russia
1834-1845 Senator
1845-1849 Secretary of State
1853-1856 Minister to England
1857-1861 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Andrew Johnson
1830-1833 Alderman of Greeneville, Tennessee
1834-1834 Mayor of Greeneville, Tennessee
1835-1843 Tennessee State Legislature
1843-1853 US Representative
1853-1857 Governor of Tennessee
1857-1862 Senator
1862-1865 Military Governor of Tennessee
1865-1865 Vice President
1865-1869 President
1875-1875 Senator
-----------------------------------------------------

Benjamin Harrison
1861-1865 70th Indiana Infantry Colonel, Brevet rank of Bridadier Colonel
1881-1887 Senator
1889-1893 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Warren G. Harding
1900-1904 Ohio State Senate
1904-1906 Lt Governor of Ohio
1915-1921 Senator
1921-1923 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Harry S. Truman
1922-1924 Jackson County Court Judge
1926-1934 Jackson County Court Presiding Judge
1935-1945 Senator
1945-1945 Vice President
1945-1953 President
-----------------------------------------------------

John F. Kennedy
1941-1945 Navy PT-109 Commander
1947-1953 US Representative
1953-1960 Senator
1961-1963 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Lyndon B. Johnson
1931-1937 Congressional Secretary
1937-1949 US Representative
1949-1961 Senator
1961-1963 Vice President
1963-1969 President
-----------------------------------------------------

Richard M. Nixon
1947-1951 US Representative
1951-1953 Senator
1953-1961 Vice President
1969-1974 President

[karynnj]

19. THe current candidates also have done more than be Senators

A comparison ON PAPER of his credentials going into the Presidency would not beat those of Kerry or Bayh (they would beat Edwards, I have no idea how to value Hillary's). Kerry had the same amount of millitary service, and I believe was more decorated, his 20 yrs as Senator, 2 as Lt Govenor, and 2 as Prosecutor compare favorably with Kennedy's 6 years in the House and about 7 in the Senate. BY 2008, Bayh will have about 10 years as Senator and 2 terms as Indiana's Govenor.

The problem is that the comparison does not look at the crcumstances. JFK ran against an unlikable VP who was nearly dropped from the ticket as VP 4 years before because of a scandal. His President, when asked what he did of significance as VP, responded that he'ld have to think about it. JFK's idealism and optimism and sense of humor was a great contrast to the dour Nixon. (Also, Nixon's dirty tricks repetoire was not developed yet - there were no PT Captains for Truth!)

[Hippo_Tron]

20. But JFK had to run against a good economy

His situation was actually somewhat similar to *'s in 2000. Eisenhower, like Clinton, was a popular president and was also pretty much clean as a whistle. But JFK was actually a good politician unlike * and had a great TV personality and thus was able to pull out a win when people were generally satisfied with the current administration. *, on the other hand, had to steal the election.

[nickshepDEM]

11. Its not that they can't win.

But Senators are much easier to attack. Their voting records are like a gift from god to the oppositions campaign manager. They can easily be picked apart, exploited, and spun.

[Hippo_Tron]

17. So can Governorships

Michael Dukakis is a prime example of this. Also, they can do things like say "This Governor's state ranks such and such place in education. Do you really want him to be your president?"

[nickshepDEM]

18. Governors have more wiggle room. They are not tied to a YES or NO vote.

[dsc]

12. You forgot FDR

He improves the governor numbers to 6 out of 13 which is closer to 1 in 2 than 1 in 3.

[Hippo_Tron]

15. No I included FDR

Winning Governors: FDR, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton

[More Than A Feeling]

13. Very interesting indeed.

A well thought out analysis. I will consider it before rejecting out of hand senators from now on.

[leyton]

14. Excellent points, especially about the open seat.

The Senators who have been nominated recently had no chance of winning - Dole, McGovern, and Goldwater were all challenging popular incumbents who were guaranteed a landslide victory. Had they been governors, nothing would have changed.

[Hippo_Tron]

21. Kick

[PeaceProgProsp]

22. Senators have only been popularly elected for less than 100 yrs.

I think the senators we had before there were popular elections were probably the kind of people who couldn't win popular elections. So, I think a big reason Senators haven't been president is because we've only had less than 100 years of having the kinds of senators who could win popular elections.

D

[leesa]

23. This group of Senators is pretty lame. Why would you want any of them?

Boxer is the only one with any balls, but she often wimps out too. Let's get some fresh blood. No more millionaires!