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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:12 PM
Original message
If we gave Kucinich 8 years to run this Country as he pleased..
we (USA) and the world would be better off.... In our heart of hearts we each know that and are saddened that it's not even close to becoming reality...
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. whats really saddening is that the Democratic party has no principles
:shrug:
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well T... Right now it's the lesser of two evils
and if you can't agree with me there then you're not paying attention.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. I am paying attention...Demsa are losing
becuase they have no principles
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. As long as we have folks like Kucinich, that's not true
The party of Feingold, Wellstone, Kennedy, Byrd--we have many fine folks of principle, and you just crapped all over them. The Democratic Party STILL has people who stand up for what's right, and you shouldn't generalize and insult those people by association.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. the association is damning
just calling it like it is
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. If we do the right thing and vote our conscience, Kucinich will win and
the world will be the way we want it to be.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. We? Who is We...
cause we be a small group in this big old country....
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. as much as it saddens me....
it ain't gonna happen.

It almost makes me long for the days when there really was such a thing as the King's chancellor (or president in this case), a kind of power behind the throne. That's the PERFECT position for Dennis...
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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. There is...
...his name is Karl Rove...
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. makes sense
but lets make it as close as possible by supporting DK in the primary season
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. exactly!
even if he doesn't win, he would bring enough delegates to the convention to affect the platform and or the nomination if its close.
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. There is the election that
The pubs want to have, the election the Media Whores want to make,
and the election that 2004 will make.

The economy is doing its bubbly, war defict best, and STILL cannot produce an actual reversal of the Bush job loss. This is going to be a difficult year in Crawford Texas, a place George should not get used to, as the Leavenworth climate is nothing like it.
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KFC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. I would rather not have a dictator
Or a King.

Too much power in any one man's hands is too risky.

Kind of like putting every last cent into PALM.
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Ok
what does that mean?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. I know it.
But being the defiant idealist and stubbornly optimistic person that I am, I'm not giving up hope until the convention is over.

And it's the people just like that keeping Dennis' campaign going. We've made enough of an impression that other candidates are mentioning Dennis' talking points. We're going to influence the party's direction no matter who gets the nomination. And, for the next few months, I get to bask in a unique experience; to actually support and vote for a candidate I believe in. It may be the only time in my life I get to do that; I'll enjoy it to the fullest!
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
11. this is so true that it hurts
in my dreams he would be there, unfortunately he won't and teh country is the less for it.

I hope whomever DOES win, puts him in their administration somewhere
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. We'd Be Crowning Him King.
:toast:
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. huh?
what's this king stuff?
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Oh, You Commie, Red, Anti-Royalist You.
:hi:
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. LOL
ok

sorry, two people on one thread calling him a king makes me curious as to what I've missed.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
18. Dennis is a dreamer - always was
he is an idealist for sure, but theory and reality are 2 very different agendas.
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. except his dreams
would make an effective reality
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Actually, I don't agree.
Dennis has had more than a drop or two of experience with reality. He's lived a harsher, more unforgiving reality than many. He's survived the reality of the political arena, and come out victorious.

While he appeals to the idealist in me, it is the realist in me who is supporting his campaign. It's ok to want to make ideals reality.

For some of us, it is the reality that we have lived that draws us to Dennis. He knows how to get things done, and he wants to do the things that will make a positive difference for us.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I agree, too
While he has the idealistic vision, it is based on a realistic and wide-ranging sense of what this country needs to fulfill its potential.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
50. Yes, it is.
And all those plans...they're laid out in detail. Specifics, all included.
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #22
53. Jesse Jackson was a dreamer, Dennis Kucinich is a Pragmatist
Seriously, for all those people that claim that DK's platform is "unrealistic", I challenge them to go read the ten points on his site and then name one of them that has no possibility.

His national health plan is brilliant in its elegance and simplicity. No mucking about with insurance, different plans, who pays what when, etc. Just 100% coverage for EVERYONE, paid for by a 7% tax on businesses (which is at least 5% lower than what they're currently paying for health coverage today).

His 15% pentagon cut is not enough IMHO, but it's a good place to start. DK should know too-- he's the ranking Democrat on the subcommittee that oversees Pentagon appropriations. We literally have TONS of weapons systems that are either obsolete or just don't work-- yet we still continue to dump billions of $$ into them yearly.

His NAFTA/WTO plan is also quite simple, but entirely workable. The U.S. is the largest economy in the world. If we bailed out of the WTO, would the rest of the world simply ignore us and stop trading? Highly doubtful. Our economic power is too large to be ignored.

His full employment economy plan used to be a mainstay of Democrats until the 1960s. It's quite simple: spend government money to create jobs that improve public infrastructure. Right now, our tax dollars subsidize the creation of jobs by the private sector-- many of which end up costing three to four times what the actual job pays. By creating the jobs directly, we'll not only put more people to work, but we'll rebuild our long-neglected public infrastructure as well.

DK's positions used to be mainstream Democratic positions in this country forty years ago-- it really is amazing to think that even "diehard" Democrats consider them utopian today.

Of course, compared with the current crop of hopefuls, even Nixon looks positively progressive....
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. theory/reality
is an overblown dichotomy
its being in the process that matters
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm not saddened
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 01:02 PM by redqueen
Not now. Sometimes I feel that way, but then my optimism kicks in again. :)

High hopes, friends! We must be the change we wish to see in the world.

Not voting for Kucinich because you're afraid others won't? You're not being true to yourself. It's not healthy.

Courage, America! Courage!
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TheWebHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
27. in theory
virtually everything kucinich would want couldn't get through congress.. Though if it did, we likely would have a huge outflow of business out of the U.S. and an economic meltdown, resulting in a currency crisis, increased crime, poverty, and world instability.
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diamondsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. That's funny-
considering that's what we've had happening under George W. Bush for the past 3 plus years. Since Kucinich wants to change all of that, I'll have to give this post the credit it merits...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. LMAO
The thing is, see, that it's the will of the people that congress would be thwarting. Do you know what voters in NH care about the most? Not the economy... not terrorism... but health insurance.

Also, he and many others have repeatedly stated that when he's nominated, he will make this election about a complete change in direction, and will implore voters to support downballot Democrats if they want his agenda implemented.

Remember FDR? Over a hundred Dem seats gained on the hill? Think it can't happen again?

Regarding the business outflow, meltdown, crisis, and blah blah blah... :) Nice scare tactics. But please!

Do you think we don't have a huge outflow of business NOW?

Do you think we're not facing economic meltdown NOW?

Do you think we're not facing a currency crisis (capital scarcity) NOW?
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. In theory aliens could invade
all the volcanoes could spew out molten lava and the earth could be hit by 6 meteors too
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. I'm not saddened.
Honorable man that he may be, I'm convinced our party has better Presidential 'timber' in the race.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. lol
I hate marketing. :)
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Don't we all?
:)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. I wish!
:)
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. You know one thing we share?
We BOTH know we're selling a superior product to the one that's already on the shelf, and it gets frustrating as all heck, some times. :)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. ^5 (high five)
Bright side? Frustration can serve as a great motivator.

Try harder! :)
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Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. ^5
I'm gonna keep on pluggin' away! :)
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. "OH WOW a big tree!"
said the lowly beaver.

dp
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MMT Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
35. Dennis's political opponents all say the same thing
and that's that, while he really is an idealist, he's also a very shrewd, hardworking politician who knows how to make things happen and who never gives up.

His "ideals" are really just practical goals that we've been conned out of trying to reach.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #35
41. Just wanna say I love your posts
Really I do. :)
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. If we gave Kucinich 8 years to run this Country as he pleased...
...the United States would become an international joke.

...we would probably be attacked by China/Russia/North Korea.

...the Democratic Party would collapse.

...Republicans would win a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, and a massive majority in the House.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Polar opposite view here
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 01:41 PM by redqueen
... the United States would become respected again (we're ALREADY an international joke)

... we would be respected by our allies and start making allies of our enemies... those enemies that remain would respect a leader who didn't waste our money on useless weapons programs like star wars, also he'd focus on preventing the development of new enemies (he's the only one who seems to 'get' that)

... the Democratic party would return from the grave (collapse? we've already done that)

... FDR's coattails would be overtaken by the Kooch. :)
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. do you have any proof or logic or reasoning?
or like the poster above are you just offering mindless speculation
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jsw_81 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
49. A fringe leftist president like Kucinich would signal the end of the USA
And that's not "mindless speculation," it's the truth. Luckily, Kucinich will get nowhere near the White House. Not this year, not ever.
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youngred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #49
52. "fringe leftist"?
you mean that guy who believes in bringing US troops home to safety?
you mean that guy who wants to restore relations with our allies?
you mean that guy who believes in bringing jobs back to america?
you mean that guy who believes in the american dream by having lived it?
you mean that guy who believes in smart economic policy?
you mean that guy who believes people deserve health care?
you mean that guy who believes people deserve an education?

Luckily? No, Luckily he would be the president. You still have nothing to say why his presidency would be bad other than a bloated stereotype of your own.
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ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
43. I know it can happen..
Just need to get the rest of you slackers on board! :)

oh and kick

TWL
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I know it can too!
We are the ones we have been waiting for!
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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
45. I'm not sad because we're closer
to having someone like to Kucinich as president than we've ever been in my life... and in the history of this country, actually.

So, put in that perspective, we're pretty close, actually. :)
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
47. Oh, I can just hear the neocon pundits screaming SOCIALISM
every day during a Kucinich administration.
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snoochie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. I spent $2,700 on health insurance this year
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 09:36 PM by snoochie
I was just looking at my taxes, so that figure is fresh in my mind. (Actually, that's just the premiums. Not including co-pays, deductibles, etc. etc. etc.)

Also, my husband lost his job due to NAFTA. I'm one of hundreds of thousands direclty negatively affected by that crime against workers and their families. I'm one of millions indirectly affected by it.

My city's water system is in shambles. It needs renovation and we don't have the money to fix it (but we did have the money to build a new entertainment center).

For some reason, I can't imagine the talking heads' ranting having much of an effect on the average American family. I can imagine Kucinich's policies having a drastic impact on them, though. A really positive one, too. :)
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
51. What would happen
The people that DK favors would do well and the people DK opposes would suffer. For example, if you are a trade unionist, in manufacturing or lacking health care you would do well. If you were in the business of exporting goods or the defense industry, you would suffer. That's basically what DK is all about--picking winners and losers in the economy according to his own personal opinion.

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