Is the Schiavo case the beginning of the end for the religious right?

[wyldwolf]

Hear me out...

I believe this ordeal has raised the ire of moderate Republicans and the "libertarian wing" of the Republican party.

I can only base this on anecdotal evidence but I usually keep my ear to the ground when it comes to politics on both sides of the aisle and what I'm hearing from mainstream Republicans is surprising.

I present two things that might be an indicator of the infighting among the GOP.

1. Here is a report from a Tom Price (R from Georgia) Town Hall meeting with mostly Republicans in attendance from the East Cobb Democrats:

Price was overwhelmed with anti-administration questions. His responses were fairly conciliatory – agreeing to look very closely at SS and other issues raised. There was not a single voice heard in favor of privatization. There were many complaints about the deficit, government interference in the Schiavo case, lack of psychological counseling for those returning from Iraq with PTSD and many progressive points of view.

There was one woman who tried to softball Price by congratulating him on his vote on the Schiavo case. What followed was a round of boos. Comments like, “Keep the government out of our private lives” and “I trust my wife more than the government.” Price gave a halfhearted explanation for his vote.

I'll have my chance with Price tomorrow night at another Town Hall meeting

2. Rightwinger and faux libertarian Neal Boortz has made his tirades on the religious zealots in the GOP a daily event. Today he recommended the Krugman article to his listeners, which would be shocking just 6 months ago.

He is calling on the Republicans to purge them from their party or risk losing power. His listeners agree.

So my question for discussion. If the right pulls another stunt like this with the Schiavo case, do they risk raising the ire of the moderates and libertarian wing of the GOP?

Could this be the beginning of the end?

[Warpy]

1. I think the religious extremists have been discredited

Whether or not this is a lasting phenomenon is anyone's guess. Remember, wingnut preachers have a full three years to do damage control until Jebby announces his intention to inherit the crown from his big brother.

Some of the dumber ones will only remember dimly that Jebby was on the side of "life," but not the kind of life he was grandstanding about.

The GOP truly did make a deal with the devil when they allowed Reagan to give the party of fiscal responsibility over to the end times lunatics. I sincerely hope the old Goldwater types retake their party, but I also know that losing the religious extremists as a voting bloc will likely keep them out of power.

My guess is that the party will now bend over and twist itself into a pretzel to try to keep the loonies while they sell out their fiscally conservative base.

[genius]

17. They wiped us out. Our only hope is to call Jesse Jackson our leader

If it weren't for Jesse Jackson, Democrats would look like pro-torture, pro-death, pro-hate lunatics - based on the postings I've seen here. Jesse was the moral conscience of our party at a time when too many Democrats seemed to have lost their souls and their sense of humanity.

I am certain that the democratic underground pro-death threads will be repeatedly quoted in right-wing churches and in campaigns to discredit the Democatic Party. Members of the Democratic Underground did a great disservice to our party by allowing these threads to continue in such an extreme way. I hope the moderators stop this garbage before the Democratic Party is totally defamed by some of the posters here.

[Debs]

21. Pro Death

Instead of honoring what were seen as Terris wishes is a disengenuous way to frame the Schiavo thing. I think it interesting that by taking the stance supported by around 80% of the people, that those like me who wanted to honor her wishes are killing the party? You really live in your own little world dont you?

[NAO]

2. Religious Reich is strong in numbers and very credible among themselves

No matter how "discredited" the Religious Reich is in the mainstream - and by that I mean in the general consensus of most everyone but people in the Religious Reich - they have not lost any credibility in their own eyes nor have they lost significant numbers of Bible-thumping Shock Troops.

Within their own institutions - their churches, their private schools, their business and professional networking groups, and their PACs, they believe they their power is on the rise. Now they are very realistic, patient, and persistent - they realize it may take 5 or 10 or 50 years to fully realize their vision, but it is a lifetime commitment for them.

We sometimes forget that people who are politically active usually think about politics mostly around election time, and meet possibly a few times a year, or every once a month in our grassroots orginizations...but Religious Reichers meet EVERY WEEK, sometimes two or three or four times a week in their rallies (aka "church services").

Their commitment is a total commitment that is deeply tied into what they believe is the ultimate truth about things, who they are, and why they were born.

Further, they have an extremely mature and effective infrastructure and a leadership powerfully focused on a chilling agenda. Radical Fundamentalist Clerics such as Falwell, Dobson et al are not merely medieval throwbacks or misguided religious hacks. They are part of a well organized subversionary movement known as "Dominionism". Dominionism constitutes a serious threat to American Democracy.

Dobson and other Fundamentalist Radical Clerics like Falwell and Robertson are planning and executing a coup to gradually replace the free, secular democratic society of the United States with a Theocracy. This plan has been spelled out in detail by other radical clerics and is called "Dominionism".

It is critical that people become aware of the extreme agenda these people have for the United States and ultimately for the world. The results of the 2004 election were not a fluke or something that was drummed up over a period of months. It has been in planning for over 20 years, and what we are seeing now is, in the words of Katherine Yurica, "the swift advance of a planned coup".

The articles below are critical for understanding the Dominionist movement and for realizing how real and how detailed their plans are, and how far they have come toward achieving their goals.

Dominionism: The Swift Advance of a Planned Coup

Conquering by Stealth and Deception - How the Dominionists Are Succeeding in Their Quest for National Control and World Power
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheSwiftAdvanceOfaPlannedCoup.htm

The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

The Rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party
a public information project from TheocracyWatch.org
http://www.theocracywatch.org

[Al-CIAda]

3. 5 stars

Video on the Christian Reconstructionist Dominionist Theocratic Agenda
http://www.theocracywatch.org/av/video_dominion.ram

[sendero]

7. I agree with your assessment of their mission..

.... but would quibble with your assertion of their numbers. They are at best about 30% of the population, and I don't think they are going to be 49% ever.

They will gain recruits and they will shed those who become dissillusioned with them. They will be 30% or so, forever.

[NAO]

11. If they are really 30%, we are screwed...

...because >99% of them are politically active 24/7/365 for elections, boycotts, pressure groups.

Going to weekly church services provides a pre-fabricated infrastructure where they can be rallied to any desired cause and their activism can be fine tuned via feedback on weekly intervals.

Because they are, by nature, highly deferent to authority and very unlikely to question or think for themselves, they can be given orders and expected to follow them, marching in compliant lockstep.

I really hope they are substantially less than 30% of the population. If they really are 30% of the general population, that would mean they were close to 50% of the VOTING population... and merely by swinging a few non-Christian voters in their direction, they would always be able to muster an electoral majority.

God help us if that is true.

[sendero]

12. Well.....

.... their 30% was able to barely eek out a victory for Bush** in 2004. And that's if you don't believe Ohio and Florida were stolen, which I do believe.

I don't think the whole 30% votes.

[applegrove]

4. There will always be creeps who use extremism to gain power for themselves

The trick in a democracy is to never elect a national government that tries to do away with democracy by using tribal rivalries to get power.

Get rid of the big ***holes in Washington and then you can start to dial down the tribal attacks on the institutions of democracy.

[Nikki Stone 1]

5. I would still like to see how this all shakes out first. but just in case

I will be rereading my copy of "The Handmaid's Tale" ...

[NEDem]

6. I happen to think

The RR has taken a very serious hit with this case, but don't ever count them out. These sleazeballs won't ever give up without a fight.

[Biology]

9. I agree

The republicans always have a way to come back. It is usually the fear ticket. They redirect public opinion by increasing fear of domestic terrorism, fear of gays, fear of illegal immigration, etc... They can't win on basic issues, so its usually an attack.

[libodem]

8. You should have heard Michael Savage

tearing down both the Bush Brothers as disgraces; they won't soon forget...and how, Jeb, could have rescued Terri...The guy was yelling and screaming and bashing his callers, when they called in...He was a manic...morally out-raged...They have turned, on the Bushes, in that camp.

[quaker bill]

10. One can only hope so.

But I rather expect not. What it has done is expose more of the gulf that lies between classic economic conservatives and the neo-con religious right.

This in itself is not a bad thing.

[OneTwentyoNine]

13. It was bogus to begin with,especially the Presidential elections...

There was NEVER this mass group of Christians rushing to the polls to make sure Kerry wasn't elected. If that was the case he might have lost by 10-20%. Fact is he most likely won,when you look at ballot counts done in secret,CNN changing Ohio polling numbers at 2:00 am.

There are religious right fanatics that will vote for Bush no matter what but its not in the numbers they want everyone to think.

[mtnsnake]

14. Yes, I think it's the beginning of the end for them. Now that they've been

in power, it was just a matter of time before they started shooting themselves in the foot. It won't be long before they take aim....at their other foot.

[Hidden Stillness]

15. The Beginning of the Beginning of the End

I have thought that it was the beginning of the end for this extremist archcon/neocon/corporate/Anti-Christ wing of the Republican Party ever since the uprising against their attempt to kill Social Security and leave old people destitute. They had gotten themselves so cut off from the American people in their little corporate think tanks and ad agencies, that they lost contact with what our opinions are and, like capitalists, did not care. You cannot beat people into submission forever with no consequences in the political arena, where we will have our chance to respond, the way they do in the corporate world, where you never do. They stupidly took on the most educated and civic-minded group of all when they went after older people, and they got the backlash they deserved. That generation had spent their whole lives going to PTA meetings at school, volunteering for or contributing to the March of Dimes, reading League of Women Voters background information on candidates and issues, calling or writing to the City or a corporation to complain. They know how government should work, and what they, politely, will not tolerate. There was something seriously wrong this time with the Republican "radar" for picking victims they can get away with attacking.

The Schiavo thing, though, was unbelievably bizarre--they were totally insane, cult-like, to have even started this thing. This was truly the Anti-Christ wing of the Republican Party. For all the tragedy of this family's medical crisis, the whole problem was that you didn't know what she wanted or if she had expressed it. The parents not wanting her to die, and no doubt (understandably, I think) angry at the husband's betrayal of her during the marriage. Was the husband telling the truth and this was what she wanted? Will they be able to tell for sure what was the cause of it all, at autopsy, and will people even believe it after all the slanted coverage? After all this painful thinking about this tragedy--the fact that, no matter how the parents wished, Terri Schiavo was probably never aware of them in the hospital room--along come the corporate criminal Repubs, riding down from the hills, waving Cease and Desist orders, and blathering about how they will save this "useful advertising prop" as if the multitudes would all cheer. The sadness and complexity of this issue had people on all sides of it not knowing what they would do, and suddenly these "issue framing" idiots are railing against--something; and waiting for cheers for--something. All I could think of was, "What the hell are they doing?" They are going to USE this horrible tragedy?.. Sure enough, all the polls show a real, true reaction against these people, and their media can't even cover up for them completely anymore.

This is the most hope I've had for years, and all we have to do is act normal.

[info being]

16. No human being or social movement is strong enough...

to succesfully take on nature and truth itself. When your belief system is predicated on nothing but lies and wishful thinking, it is always just a matter of time...just a matter of time until nature weeds you out.

These people cannot survive in the real world, even with control of government.

[Speck Tater]

18. Remember Billy Sunday?

This isn't the first time that religioius fundamentalists have grabbed political power.

From Wikipedia article on Billy Sunday:

Sunday spent time as an assistant to another evangelist before embarking solo in 1896. He was ordained as a preacher in the Presbyterian church in 1903.

Billy Sunday is most noted for his "fire-and-brimstone" approach to evangelism. Holding a strictly fundamentalist view, he would often preach fiery sermons against political liberalism, evolution, alcohol, and so forth. His energy and vitality won many converts. This in turn led to his accumulating a small fortune through contributions at his sermons. He was one of the first prominent preachers to make use of the new medium of radio.

Sunday is noted as being one of the major social influences leading to the adoption of Prohibition in 1919. As the tide of public opinion turned, he continued to strongly support Prohibition, and after its repeal in 1933, Sunday called for its reintroduction. His popularity waned in his later years, but he nevertheless continued to preach up until his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Sunday

[googly]

19. In the words of a very wise democrat, given a choice between

a republican and a republican lite, the republicans
will vote for the republican everytime. So I am hopeful
that the religious right is on the wane, but I am not
betting my money on it, not atleast until 2006 results.

[rocktivity]

20. Wrong question.

The right one is: Shouldn't this be the beginning of the religous LEFT?

After the freeper Jesus-freak show put on in front of Terri's hospice, there's a crop of mortified non-fundie and moderate Christians who are ripe for the picking. All they need is a unified message from the religious left: "If these people do NOT represent you, your salvation is here!"

:headbang:
rocknation