Tough on terror, weak on guns

[MrBenchley]

A look at the latest scummy actions by the GOP and the gun lobby...

"When Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig introduced his bill last month to shield the gun industry from lawsuits, he claimed it was nearly identical to a similar measure that went down in a series of parliamentary maneuvers on the Senate floor in March 2004. The bill would quash all suits against the gun industry, except where evidence proves a dealer knowingly broke the law. When lawmakers come back from Easter recess, they're expected to take up the legislation, and with Congress more Republican and more pro-gun than it was last year, the bill is considered more likely to pass this time.
But Craig has slipped in a so far widely unnoticed provision that gun industry experts say goes way beyond the one that died in the last Congress. It would bar "administrative proceedings" against the gun industry, which means that along with being immune from most lawsuits, dealers -- even unscrupulous ones -- would no longer have to worry about having their licenses revoked. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives uses such administrative proceedings to regulate the gun industry. But under Craig's provision, the ATF's authority would be greatly curtailed.
...But gun control advocates say they are dumbfounded by the timing of Congress' effort to indemnify the gun industry because it will come just weeks after the release of a troubling report on guns and terrorism. A Government Accountability Office report released earlier this month said that at least 36 individuals on the federal terrorist "watch list" have walked into gun shops and bought weapons. The report makes the current effort in Congress to provide immunity to the industry painfully ironic to the gun control crowd. "It really ought to be an embarrassment that Congress would push this bill in the wake of a report that terrorists are buying guns over the counter," said Dennis Henigan, legal action project director at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/03/28/guns/index.html

Remember, no civilized country on earth has anywhere near the level of gun violence the US has.

[montana500]

1. please drop the gun control talk

we will never retake congress if we dont drop it. We lost huge chunks of union votes because of this issue.

gun issue = local control.

[JuniorPlankton]

2. Gee, we lost a lot of votes around the guy marriage issue

Let's drop that one too.
And abortions..
and anti-war protests
and health insurance
and decent wages....


I guess if we could become republicans, we would get a lot of extra votes!

:wtf:

[MrBenchley]

5. Guess the only way to oppose the GOP

is to bend over and spread cheeks for its scummiest and most corrupt splinter group.

You'll notice that gun nuts never feel they ought to softpedal their fetish for the sake of economic justice, peace, reproductive freedom, workers rights, a strong economy, health care, etc. Instead they're quick to parrot right wing lies about "gun grabbers" and the like.

[montana500]

6. the "thoughtful liberal act" doesn't work

NO to gun control. That is one of the main reasons we lost rural America.

if you want those days to return, you are going to have to make a concession. The truth is, most rural Americans hunt and like guns. If you want their votes, stop the federal gun control.

[MadHound]

8. The truth is friend, that the majority of Americans support gun control

It has been proven time and again that the majority of Americans support some form of reasonable gun control. Why do you wish us to go against the wishes of the majority on this issue, when doing so won't bring in but a few more votes?

Your position is illogical, and definetly not a good game plan for liberals or the Democratic party.

[MrBenchley]

17. You will notice

that John Kerry owns guns and hunts, and that it didn't keep the gun nuts from lying their stinking asses off about him. Nobody peddled the slime boatters lies louder than the NRA and their scummy allies.

[MadHound]

19. I hear you friend,

In fact most Democrats I know have at least one gun, and a lot hunt. And most of them also believe in reasonable gun control, thus reflecting a national trend.

This continous call to drop gun control as a "losing cause" will backfire on us if we adapt it. Better to stay with what the majority of Americans wish, which is sane, reasonable gun control measures.

[MrBenchley]

27. Exactly so....

Nobody but the lunatic fringe wants the ATF to be unable to regulatre gun dealers...or wants to shield the gun industry from liability for irresponsible actions...or wants assault weapons in the stores...or wants loonies and criminals to waltz out of gun shows without passing background checks.

[montana500]

23. the majority of America - the one that doesnt vote?

Cause guess what? The Union voters who like guns DO vote.

So until these lazy assholes who hate guns come out to vote, we will lose on this position.

[MrBenchley]

31. Gee, so you're telling us...

the majority DO support gun control, but we should go out of our way to piss them off to appeal to the tiny fringe of loonies who enjoy getting lied to by corrupt right wing thugs.

Uh-huh.

[MadHound]

40. And gee, guess what, like other people in this country, Union Members

Do support reasonable gun control, including the AWB.<http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=33238>

Get a clue friend, the majority of Americans, of all stripes, favor reasonable gun control measures. Why are you advocating the minority position for the Democratic party, unless you want us to lose?

Sorry friend, you are going against logic, and the will of the people on this one.

[montana500]

49. welll...

Take a look around you , and let me know what you see. We have lost congress the white hosue and the supreme court.

who is in the minority?

[MadHound]

51. And my question for you is

That loss that the Democrats have experienced entirely due to gun control issues? And if you think it is, please provide some sources that back your POV up.

Quite frankly them Dems have been losing for a multitude of reasons, none of them having to do with gun control. In fact Gore, a noted gun control advocate, won in '00, but due to Republican shenanigans, his campain's bumbling ineptness during the recount, and the actions of the Supreme Court, Gore had his win yanked out from under him.

In '04, Kerry ran a bad campaign, was faced with an electoral public pumped on fear, had the RW fundies pumped up over gay marriage, had to contend with vote rigging in Ohio and Florida(again) among other places, had to deal with a MSM that was against him(as they were against Gore), among many other issues. If you will care to remember, gun control hardly came up in either election cycle, and quite frankly had a negligble effect on the outcome.

Sorry friend, but your premise still doesn't fly. The majority of people in this country favor reasonable, sane control, and the party shouldn't abandon this position in a vain effort to get some minority position voters that won't go their way anyhow. It is a losing proposition, and if you believe otherwise, well you are just buying into that NRA spin. Speaking of which, it seems like seventy five percent of NRA members are also in favor of sane, sensible gun control measures. Gee, I guess that leaves Charlton Heston, Wayne La Pierre, and a few freaking freepers who want unrestricted gun rights. Not a good company to join friend, not a winning coalition at all.

[MrBenchley]

9. That IS rich...

So the kind of people who aren't troublednow by Republican dishonesty, corruption and fascism will suddenly become so if we announce they can play with popguns?

[montana500]

11. you guys must not live i nthe real world

the gun issue is *the* top issue for many Americans. They dont care about anything else but this issue. And many of them are union workers.

As far as what the majority thinks, their "thoughts" only matter when they fucking show up to vote.

[MrBenchley]

16. Hilarious...

"the gun issue is *the* top issue for many Americans. They dont care about anything else but this issue."
They must feel shit out of luck, then since the GOP pays lip service to gun control too.....

"their "thoughts" only matter when they fucking show up to vote."
Gee, you don't suppose that if they more strongly reflected their wish for more gun control they might show up, do you? Jeepers.

[montana500]

24. genius plan!

"their "thoughts" only matter when they fucking show up to vote."
Gee, you don't suppose that if they more strongly reflected their wish for more gun control they might show up, do you? Jeepers"



Jeepers! You looked at a map of who voted for who and where in 2004?

there is a reason we started losing congress under Bill Clinton.

1. guns
2. corporate right wing talk show hosts

[MrBenchley]

26. Yeah, it is....

"there is a reason we started losing congress under Bill Clinton.
1. guns
2. corporate right wing talk show hosts"
Funny, the Contract on America Newt and his gang were pimping doesn't say a fucking word about guns....

[montana500]

34. they didnt have to. The NRA did

nm

[MrBenchley]

37. So in other words

Democrats should rush to embrace a group that even Newt Gingrich doesn't embrace publicly...ho-kay.

Especially since there's no group in the country that spoends more to attack workers' rights than the NRA.

[JuniorPlankton]

13. I believe that the main reason we lost the rural votes

is religion (and lack of education)
While gun control is one of the issues, religion ( and all its consequences such as school prayers, gay marriage, 10 commandments) is still a deal breaker.

And this is something I am personally not willing to give up ( unlike the gun control, by the way)

:kick:

[montana500]

14. we lost rural votes because....

of these main things:

1. lack of choice in rural radio ( this greatly effects the workforce. When al lthey hear is Limbaugh and Dr. Larua.....)
2. gun control
3. more organized repub party

[MrBenchley]

18. It's the audience the GOP reached with the "Ban the Bible" flyer

I see no evidence that the sort of people who loathe Democrats and every civilized notion including gun control are going to suddently become liberals if we announce they can play with popguns.

[JuniorPlankton]

21. This is my point precisely!

n/t

[MrBenchley]

25. The notion that they suddenly drop their bigotry and stupidity

and vote for the things they demonstrate a loathing for (which is basically the entire advance of civilization) if they get to play with popguns is ludicrous to the point of insanity.

It's also funny to hear the trigger happy invoke "unions" for their cause...considering the AFL-CIO and a bunch of other unions ended up on the NRA enemies list. And the gun lobby has backed up its hostility to labor and workers rights with its blood money...

"In fact, there is significant evidence that the one organization that has historically done the most damage to labor politically, and that has the most potential to defeat pro-labor, pro-worker candidates in 2004, is the National Rifle Association.
The NRA bills itself as a single-issue group -- and that issue is guns. Its lobbying and political action arms have been called the most effective in the nation. It maintains a large cadre of lobbyists in Washington and in state capitals around the country. And in 2002 it was involved in 271 campaigns for the U.S. House and Senate, spending over $10 million on campaign donations, independent expenditures, and grassroots mobilization. Its candidates won 253 of those races. It also claims a great deal of credit for electing George W. Bush in 2000.
Each election year the NRA uses the fear of gun confiscation to convince millions of voters to cast their ballots against "anti-gun" candidates. Many of the voters who follow the NRA endorsements are working people and a large number are union members. However, NRA-endorsed candidates do not just vote on gun issues when they take their seats in Congress or in state legislatures. They also vote on issues like workplace safety and health, workers' compensation, overtime regulations, pension reform, union rights and the minimum wage. And when they do, the NRA's candidates, with a few exceptions, are far more likely to vote for corporate America's positions on these issues than labor's. In other words, the NRA's candidate is almost always the candidate of big business."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04248/373232.stm

[MrBenchley]

3. Rubbish!

Even Chimpy and his corrupt gang try to pay lip service to gun control while they sneak through shit like this.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

29. So we should pander to the lunatic fringe

because they rave and rant? Uh-huh.

"The gun nuts, on the other hand, are extremely vigilant about the issue. "
And they're dishonest scum, too.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

35. So we should piss on 80% of the country

for the sake of a dishonest, bigoted minority....ho-kay.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

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[montana500]

41. your 80% doesnt exist

come out of your fantasy land. They dont exist and they DONT VOTE.

[MrBenchley]

42. Feel free to associate with the gun rights crowd...

They're some of the scummiest right wingers on earth.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

46. Gee, I'm not the one pushing their agenda...

Nor was i the one who applied that label to the poulation of NYC out of the blue.

[montana500]

50. yes, lots of gun nuts are scummy. But lots are good people too.

and we need their votes to win.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

7. Says you.

But even a majority of gun owners support gun control.

But its hilarious to hear Democrats ought to piss on sane urban voters for the sake of a handful of rural voters who hate blacks, Jews, gays and uppity women as much as they love those guns.

[Name removed]

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[montana500]

12. yep

...

[MrBenchley]

15. That IS rich...

"the voters who base their votes on guns oppose gun control, overwhelmingly"
They sure do...and what scummy folks they are too.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

28. You're a lot more likely to find hate filled loonies

on any "gun owners" forum on line than in NYC.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

33. Really....

Been on any gun owners forums, lately?

But it's nice to hear a Democrat refer to the people of NYC as "scum".....

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[MrBenchley]

38. I'm sure David Duke or John AshKKKroft would see plenty...

and those two are gun rights all the way. The NRA even put AshKKroft on the cover of its magazine.

[MrBenchley]

43. By the way, it's intriguing to note...

that none of the pro-gun people have wanted to comment on the pros or cons of the disgraceful bill proposed by Craig and the GOP.

[Name removed]

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[MrBenchley]

47. Yeah, it shows....

[MrBenchley]

48. Kick...

Here's another excellent issue that can be used to paint the GOP as the party in thrall to its lunatic fringe....

[MrBenchley]

52. another kick...

[MrBenchley]

53. One more kick

to remind us about the gun lobby's extremism...