Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What happens if Dean loses and goes third party?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:53 PM
Original message
What happens if Dean loses and goes third party?
Forgive me if this thread has already been done, but I haven't seen it yet.
I was just wondering about the true Dean supporters on the DU, if they would follow him to a third party or would they stay true to the democratic party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. the Democrats would just have to close up shop
Of course he won't, but then again if you sell out your base, what do you have left?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
windansea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. nothing much n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Never happen....
Dean is a Democrat, not an independent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. I believe that he is a true democrat and will stick to the party...
but I'm just wondering if he will feels like he got shafted by the party would he decide to take matter into his own hands. I'm not suggesting such, I'm just not completely sure that he wouldn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. Go to the DLC website. They don't want Howard Dean and he needs to
pack and go. I wish he'd do it soon. Third Party with Dean leading the charge looks like a bet. I've long lost respect for the leadership in this party and it's time to change tactics.

Dean '04
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. He is a loyal Democrat.
But times change, people change, the Democratic party is merging with the Republican party. I doubt that he would run as an Independent, but if he did, I would be right there to support him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. There are lots of things
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 08:24 PM by Nicholas_J
Dean has said he would do or not do, both as Governor, and as candidate, and has changed his mind. Early on he stated that he would unilaterally invade Iraq if the U.N. did not enforce its own resolutions, then he became the only candidate to oppose the war in Iraq from the beginning. He stated that universal health insurance was his greatest priority at the beginning of his campaign, and now he will not consider universal health until the budget is balanced ( and in his last debate in Iowa stated that this would take 7 years, meaning he told Iowans he was going to get rid of even the piddling amount they got from the Bush tax cuts, and pretty much give them nothing in return).

It is my belief that Dean will turn on this, and if he does not get the nomination, he will run third party. This has been hinted by his statements that if he is not nominated his supporters are not transferable (since they seem to be so loyal to him however, I do not see why they would not abide by his wishes if he was sincere in supporting any other nominee, and apply that passion and anger against Bush, to asking them to vote for anyone else to get Bush out of office, which is why I doubt the sincerity of his claim)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. Dean has said repeatedly
As recently as today in Claremont NH, that he will support the eventual nominee.

See for yourself: rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04012204_dean.rm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's not going third party
He's said it many times. Nice try.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. This isn't an option in Dean's mind, so why the question?
I would vote for the Dem nominee, under your hypothetical situation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Since Dean said he'd support the Democratic Candidate
whoever it is, I think your point is moot. (Source: NPR today-heard Dean say it, and he was very sincere) I remind you that he also asked all candidates if they would support the nominee, and all of them, including Dean, raised their hands.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. What will happen happen
if the now front runner Kerry loses will he go 3rd party? Why throw out horse hockey? Dean is a Democrat and will support the Democrat as he says. Whether he will do anything other than vote for them remains to be seen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes, it has already been done.
And your question is illogical. Because it is Dean and his supporters who are true to the Democratic Party, and the corporatist Republicans in Democratic clothing known as the DLC who are betraying us to the likes of PNAC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'd vote for Dean. He is the only chance the Dems have of even possibly
winning. So, if they don't have Dean and are not going to win, I might as well vote my heart and go for Dean.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. We'd be screwed
It would be 2000 all over again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
maxanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
38. yup
and we'd deserve it, for sabotaging the only original political movement to come along in decades.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Dean is a Democrat, always has been, always will be
That scenario will never happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
14. Somebody asked Dean that question
already. I can't remember exactly who did so I don't have a direct quote.

Dean said that he is a Democrat and that he would not run as a third party candidate. I expect him to be true to his word as he has been consistent on this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freetempe Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Won't happen
Dean has already pledged to support the Dem nominee, but that won't stop me from writing in his name on the ballot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
16. I'd follow him without missing a beat
and would never look back.

Of course I realize Dean is 100% committed to the Democratic Party and would never do this.

It matters not to me. Come Novemeber 3, I'm voting for Dean whether he's on the ballot or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adamrsilva Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. What if he only ran in states that Bush was guaranteed to win?
Like some have suggested for Greens.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. It won't happen, but...
...I think little attention has been paid to what may happen if, as seems to be happening right now, the Dean campaign goes into total meltdown in record time, and he's a non-factor by this time next week.

I suggest that the main lessons that will be "learned" by the "conventional wisdom," as personified by party officials and the mainstream media, will be the following:

-- Iraq doesn't matter (and, by extension, neither does opposition to pre-emptive war and the PNAC's agenda). The main candidate that spoke out against Bush's Iraq adventure will have been shown to have far less support than previously assumed, and most Democrats will have no problem supporting a candidate who gave Bush his "blank check" IWR.

-- Anger against Bush doesn't matter. The one candidate who was steadfast in denouncing the administration will have been lapped by a series of candidates who helped put into place not only the Iraq resolution, but also the PATRIOT Act, Ashcroft's nomination, etc., etc. The Democrats will have demonstrated that "Bush-hating" is a dead-end among them as well.

-- The Internet doesn't matter. Dean was touted as the first "cyber-candidate" who drew supporters from outside the standard Democratic profiles. Now, it will be said, those supporters have been proven to be a mirage. The notion of the Internet as an organizing tool and a sounding board (and, yes, that also means the opinions of those of us at DU) will be seen as inconsequential, extremist, a minority of a minority, a special interest group best ignored in the future.

:-(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
20. It would be the beginning of the end...
...of the Democratic party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cuban_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. he won't
So it's a non-issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
22. he'll be crucified as this year's Nader
and promptly ignored

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. What happens to his "war chest" of money if he loses?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. Don't do it!
If Dean were to run as a third party candidate this time, it would rule out his running as a Democrat at a more favorable time in the future. Why would he commit political suicide like that?

Secondly, I hope you people who say you will still vote for Dean even if he is not the nominee don't live in states which will be in play. A vote for anyone besides the nominee is a vote for Bush.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. Dean would be insane to break from the Democratic Party...
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 09:19 PM by Monte Carlo
... and run as a 3rd candidate in the general election. Splitting the vote in THIS election would be near-certain disaster. If Dean is even half-way sincere about his intentions to remove Bush, he would not willingly damage the Democrats' chances in November. Besides, it would reflect on him very badly as a candidate in such a race. It wouldn't be a plus for the ousting-Bush plan.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think its the Democratic party that is suffering from temporary insanity
I dont think it would be that insane, especially after seeing the way in which he is being treated by the other "Democrats", which to me is insane, especially in considering the overall impact on the party.

I believe he is a real Democrat. He is the one that motivates and inspires me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
26. Dr. Dean answered you in tonight's debate; He is a "D" - no 3rd party
He will fully support the Democratic nominee, end of story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. He won't because he is smarter and has more honor than some...
of the faithful
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
styersc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
29. Then it will be obvious that all of his detractors were right.
He pledged to support the candidate. If he lied then it was all about his ego and his own personal glory. If this happens I hope he has the decency to return all of the money- or I guess we could sue for fraud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
31. Dean may be unelectable, but he's not stupid.
First off, unlike some of his DU supporters apparently, I'm 100 percent sure Dr. Dean will support the nominee.

Second, he's way too smart to piss away his very bright future in the party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. He won't run as an independent,
so the question makes no sense. If he did run as an indie, and I thought he could get enough votes to beat Bush, damned straight I'd vote for him. Unless some Democrats start acting like Democrats, I see no reason to be part of a party that has no interest in my welfare or in my point of view.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
33. screw that.
I am voting for the Democrat. very simple. In the meantime I am gonna bring up things I don't like about the candidates but I will still vote for any one of them in the end. Call me a sell-out I don't care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoeBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
35. What if millions of meteors...
...struck the earth only killing Democrats?

In other words it ain't gonna happen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zinnola Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. no, no, no
Dean stated tonight in the debates and in other instances that he will support the nominee. He did stated that he could not guarantee that his supporters are easily transferrable. A very honest answer. As a Dean supporter, I am with him all the way. If he does not get the nomination, I will support the nominee with an absentee vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
37. To those that say it's a stupid question....
Personally I don't think Dean would split from the party either. But it's not far fetched either. Dean knew he had the support. He should be in the lead right now. If it were not for the DLC, the media and the other candidates ganging up on him, he would probably still be ahead of the game. I can sense he has plenty of well placed bitterness about how he was treated. I think that alone would be the reason behind a split from the party. As for too much to lose? What does he have to lose? He's a governor, not a senator or congressman. So he doesn't have that much to lose, but the white house to gain if he did split. It's a hypothetical question, so don't get so defensive about someone asking it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Demo Gog Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. I don't like Dean,
but I don't think he would do that. He's a Democrat, right? So that automatically entitles him to something called "honor" that Republicans have only heard about!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
40. I don't know if you saw the debate tonight, but
Dean again said he will strongly support whoever the Democratic nominee is. End of issue.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
41. Bush wins in a particularly large landslide
look, its going to be tight and thats IF we nominate a winner.

I'm sure people would go vote for him figuring that the party had screwed them or some such foolishness so he becomes Perot plus Nader rolled into one and takes only from the Dem totals.

These threads are coming in distrbing frequency.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. I would be disappointed in Dean if he did that
and I would vote for the Democratic candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
megaplayboy Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
43. If Dean is the next to last man standing, then...
he will of course support the nominee, but if a DLC backed candidate goes down in flames, I think Dean will lead a purge of the From/McAuliffe leadership faction, and he will be a stronger candidate in 2008. Hillary will regret not running this year in either case.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
44. What third party wants him?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
45. Your far bigger worry should be
(or perhaps the DLC/DNC's):

What if he loses and DOESN'T.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
46. He won't do it...
He's become the anti establishment, establishment candidate...

I know that sounds confusing, but the fact is that Dean may have made a few enemies, primarilly Terry McCaullife and the DLC insiders, but he's made a few powerful friends as well, namely Al Gore, Bill Bradley, and Tom Harkin...

Were he to run independent, he would lose the respect of most of these people, as well as the support and respect of the entire democratic party.

Dean may not be my first choice, but I know he has better judgment than that. Were to run independent though, he would definetely garner a greater support than Nader's paltry 2% or so. My guess is he would end up getting say 10-15% of the electorate, and most likely Vermont and maybe one or two other states.

But that's not going to happen, because Dean is democrat and whether or not he gets the nomination I think he's one of the party's stars. Ultimately, the party's insiders, whether they like him or not, will be forced to consult him with regards to energizing the base and raising a ton of cash, especially in post McCain Fiengold elections (after all, one lesson that Dean teaches is that dems can still raise a lot of money -- maybe not as much as Bush, which was never going to happen -- but maybe enough to get the attention needed to get the message out).

It's inevitable. While, I don't think Dean is the right messenger for the job, his message is pretty much on target.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Th1onein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
47. I hope to God he doesn't do something that stupid
If he does, and it splits the vote, like in 2000, we are in deep trouble in this country. I think that all Dems need to get together this time, and vote Bush out of office. This country is doomed, if we don't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
48. CSPAN aired a speech/Q&A where the poor sick Dr (could hardly talk
I felt bad for him) said clearly/definitively that he'd
support/work for the Dem nominee if it isn't him.
I much appreciate that.

(Afterward someone in the crowd told him he should see
a Dr for his cold and he said he'd look in the mirror. :))
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DannyRed Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:00 AM
Response to Original message
49. I have been
getting really tired of that question.

He will not run third party.

Here is what I think Dean should do if he does not get the nomination....

Take that huge pile of money that his campaign is sitting on, and form a 527.

Use the money via that 527 to create a massive, well-funded, well run Think Tank, advocacy group or whatever, run ads, hire out to and support the eventual nominee, and leverage himself into the DNC chairmanship.

That's IF he does not get the nomination.

Which he will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThirdWheelLegend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
50. Huh? ... which 3rd party?
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 04:10 AM by ThirdWheelLegend
Dean is pretty much a regular corporatist Democrat. Just that the has a unique campaign. Why would he leave the party that he does not differ from?

TWL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
51. He'll NEVER Eat Lunch in this Town Again !!
The Back-to-Brattleboro-Tour :crazy:

Political Suicide-you do Dean a disservice to annoint Him as a 3rd force.


GG :smoke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
52. I don't think Dean would do that....
Nor the other candidates. Too much at stake....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 07:29 AM
Response to Original message
53. If Kerry wins the nomination
I will change my registration to independent. I cannot stand him. he was the most negative of all the candidates yet won in IA, where they "don't like negative campaigning". WTF?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ficus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #53
57. negative
Judging by ads I saw and lit I got the most negative was, by far:

1. Gephardt
2. Dean
3. Kerry
4. Kucinich
5. Edwards

Most of Dean's hits came from the G man, the finest congressman that Anheiser-Busch ever owned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
54. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. He won't
He is loyal to the party and he knows he wouldn't be able to win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
56. He won't run 3rd party
but if he did I'd vote for him. F the DLC and F Fromm.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Dec 17th 2017, 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC