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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:31 AM
Original message
Poll question: Is the draft just what we need?
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 10:34 AM by sellitman
My feeling is that a draft would galvanize the country against bushco's war mongering because then and only then would the public have something to lose. It would be like Vietnam. The tide would then turn against the Neo-Cons. Their children would have to serve too. what do you think? Would this stop UN-necessary wars?

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femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. A draft, and the nightmares it will bring, is the only way to wake people
Until the Repukes that voted for * have to suffer dearly and see the err of their ways nothing in this country will change.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Charlie Rangel convinced me...
... for the exact reasons you state.
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Meeker Morgan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Rangel is wrong ...
... not only tactically, but morally.

How much innocent life are *you* willing to sacrifice to "galvanize the people"?

That's what Rangel's proposal amounts to.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I don't think it will actually happen...
...do you believe that Congress would blindly allow * to attack Iran, Syria, North Korea --- if there was even a chance that their constituents would have to go? I don't.

I do know that we have an army disproportionately comprised of minorities and poor (disadvantaged) people-----fighting for the advantaged. I'd like to see us get the hell out of there and never enter into an immoral "war" again! With * at the helm I don't trust that to happen on it's own.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, they would. Our Congress is no longer working for us.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. ahh, but they are working for "right wing wackos"...
Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 09:17 AM by etherealtruth
Who (most) will not tolerate their children (or themselves) going off to fight in *'s folly (AKA immoral wars).

I have no idea how else to stop the crazies, as you say they are NOT working for us. Come up with a better idea and I'll get behind it!
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. How much innocent life are you willing to sacrifice...
> How much innocent life are *you* willing to sacrifice to "galvanize the people"?

How much innocent life are you willing to sacrifice while America
blunders on, starving people, denying them clean water, blowing them
to itty-bitty-pieces, denying them medication, education, and housing,
and so on?

And I'm only talking about Americans; then we can talk about Iraqis
next...

It's about time a few Americans got galvanized!

Tesha
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pen dragon Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. ...
Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 05:44 AM by pen dragon




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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Don't kid yourselves
Any draft proposed by these neocon shitbags will never allow their own kids, or the kids of their rich contributors to pay the price. They didn't go the last time either. Hell, I'm surprised Poppy served in World War II, to be honest. Especially given their role in starting the thing.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. The last one.
You know no one with resources or access to power will have to serve. It will be the same thing as last time. No better.

And if people get angry at the government, Osama will show up and really give them something to bitch about.

Give me a break.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 05:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
22. But who are the people voting for Bush? nt
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. One of two things would happen:
(1) Very quickly, many more Americans would feel they had something invested in American foreign policy and they would start voting for people with sane foreign policy,

or

(2) The Republicans would double up on the propaganda and convince many more Americans that it's right to die for the profits of weapons manufacturers and oil companies.

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sickinohio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I say #2 would happen
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union_maid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
7. A draft would galvanize people...but....
I think we've got to find a better way to do it. It's bad enough to be sending those who signed up...well...sort of signed up...for something. When I was raising my son, one of the things that made me happiest was that he wasn't going to have to face a draft and he could make his own choices. I don't want to see that freedom disappear for young people, regardless of the benefits of a reality check. And no matter what the draft laws, the wealthy, powerful and connected will serve only to the extent they want to. That will never change.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I have 2 kids approaching draft age
I want this war over with so if they are drafted it is to defend this country...not attach others. I bet the war would end faster when everyones kids are in peril as opposed to now. The amount of protesters in the street would grow exponentially too.
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Lydia Guerra Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. But it sounds like you are still talking about "other people's kids"
Why don't YOU wake up. I hope you not only protest in the street, but write letters to the editor, call your senator, representative, join an activist group, walk the talk, drive a fuel efficient car (not an SUV), etc. etc. Start your kids' Conscientous Objector files today.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I have marched , written, called and walked the walk....and
wouldn't drive a SUV even if given one. I still think this would work though. Let the plan come from the Right though....that way we would have more ammo to rebel against.
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Steel City Slim Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. I Think Two Things Would Happen
First: The neo-con propaganda machine would go to work to convince people that it is good, and right, and proper to send their kids off. And second: The children of the rich and influential would not have to go.
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Lydia Guerra Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Three things would happen:
First, the neo-cons would propaganize
Second, children of the power-elite would still not have to go

Third, too many people will die, die, die.
The draft means death death death.

Other people's kids, their kids, your kids, my kids.
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femme.democratique Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. The rich will always have their perks, BUT...
I'm more worried about waking up the throngs of non-rich average joe freeper bush voters who really believe that Bush is good for them yet haven't had to pay the piper yet. They most certainly will be suffering and feeling much pain- remember there are millions of them...
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
36. Hi Steel City Slim!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
9. You're kidding, right?
If you are not, you are dangerously naive.

Rich White Christian Neo-Cons will always find a way around the draft for their children. A L W A Y S. Count on it.

The draft is meant for the un/under-educated, poor, people of color, or others, not the children of the Rich White Christian Neo-Con Elite. Their fathers, at least most of them, dodged the bullet figuratively in Vietnam, and their father before them did so in Korea.

All a draft does is provide convenient and expedient fodder for the Neo-Con wars. Trust me... that's ALL.

TC
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ways around the draft have been drastically altered.
You can't escape to Canada and there is no College deferment. Will all the rich kids join the Texas Air National Guard?
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Call me crazy...
but a Party of thugs with the wearwithall to steal an election will find a way to exempt their children from any draft, regardless of the rules and safeguards.

It has always been that way... in a draft, the rich and powerful serve ONLY when and how they wish. It is the children of the "others" who bear the largest part of the sacrifice without a choice.

TC
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Lydia Guerra Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. A Draft Still Means Death Death Death
Galvanize the country? How many draftees would have to die before it is determined the country has been "Galvanized" enough? Now that's a noble cause worth dying for. Are the signs not clear enough already?
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The signs are there........
but only those who are committed are reading them and following through. This would force the rest of the populous to take heed. It happened in Vietnam. History cannot be denied.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
19. .
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pen dragon Donating Member (287 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. Another 9/11
with round the clock news coverage and media outrage, and vengeful Bush soundbytes will reset 70 % of the populace back into unquestioned flag waving/let's kill the fuckers mode. The majority will embrace the draft if they see the effects of a nuclear explosion or something similiar. It's not hard to manipulate the masses, it's a time-honored science. Why do you all think they keep Bin Laden alive out there

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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Well, the mythology of bin Laden anyway. He probably died 12/01
This will be tricky though. Hard to keep the "we're safer with Bush in charge" con job going...although they only have to do it once.
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. yes, but make sure to....
.....strip away any deferments or potential influence by the wealthy and powerful that would permit their kids to join the texas air national guard.....
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
30. Yes it would galvanize the nation
And that is why they won't do it. They are smart enough to know not to start a draft. Instead they will use recruitment to get uninformed kids to join up. They control the press and media, so it is easy to keep the real truth from most people.
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aintitfunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
31. This is utter bs
I find it difficult to believe that so many on this board would support the draft. I find it difficult to believe that some are so naive that the draft would be re-instated and that the rich will be subject to the law. There will always be an out for people with money. Perhaps they will have to serve. Perhaps they will have to serve in an office in DC or if they are really unlucky an office in
the boonies but somewhere in the good ole US of A.

Meanwhile my son, who like his mother did not support this President or his evil war will be subject to serve a year or more in Iraq or Iran when the asshole decides to invade that.

So how kind of you to stand on the side of re-instating the draft to prove a political point. How kind of you to put other people's children, at risk so that you can prove something. It truly is noble of you to think that someone elses sacrifice of life and limb is acceptable as long as the rich repukes learn a lesson. I am sure with full control that the Republican party now enjoys the draft bill you dream of will come true.

I am sorry, but damn, but this pisses me off.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
32. Voted NO.
Edited on Mon Mar-21-05 11:57 AM by Stand and Fight
However, I really am not so sure either way... I have found that I am becoming increasingly more pessimistic about the state of things in our country. It seems to me that Bush and the Republicans can get away with anything, and I am not COMPLETELY certain that even a draft would stop them. I am not COMPLETELY certain that even a draft would cause their constituents to rise up and call for an end to the madness, because they are in the grips of the very same malady. It is an interesting thought to ponder -- as those who recall my posts a month back -- but it will not likely happen because of the risks involved. However, the Neo-Conservatives have managed to continue to trample on the Constitution left and right and no one has really opposed them. The scenario that the two camps here may be ignoring is the fact that the American people may just be dumb enough to agree with a draft if the packaging is changed.
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d_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
33. The pukes are stupid, but not that stupid.
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hughee99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is disturbing...
While I would agree that a draft would probably galvanize support against the war, the price is too high. US troops executing every man, woman and child in Iraq SUSPECTED of aiding the insurgents would also galvanize support against the war. Would anyone advocate that? I've seen a few threads in the past few days where I've found some of the opinions very disturbing, such as hoping for a draft or hoping for a recession or depression. I know that this isn't how most people feel, but I've started to see growing sentiments.

I, personally, want to get our people elected so that these things don't happen, rather than wanting these things to happen so we can get our people elected.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
35. Let something else galvanize this country!!
I have two sons in their 20's!

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