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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:22 PM
Original message
Draft in 75 days? Could it be?
A DKos diarist is predicting a looming reinstatement of the draft. I am not sure where he is getting his information.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/19/191951/450


On March 31st, the Director of the Selective Service System (the SSS) is due to report to the Pentagon that the agency is ready to open 1,980 draft board offices around the country and be ready to operate lotteries by June 15th.
....
It took the SSS 2 years and now they must be nearly ready to issue compliance cards--to be filled out by ALL under the age of 35, man or woman, for a non-combat skills and medical draft.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. Holy shit! Boy, I sure would like to see a second
or original source on this one. Thanks for the heads-up!
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. HOLY SHIT is RIGHT! I'd like to see confirmation.
This is SERIOUS!
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JackD76 Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. 75 Days is an Interesting Number
In 75 days, that is when the school year ends and they can snatch up graduating high school students and last year college students.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #17
49. you want revolution in this country, reinstate the draft.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Gee, do you think some new people might join us in the streets?
I'm beginning to wonder what, if anything, will get the sheep to wake up!
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #52
94. I think that you can bet your life on it
Unless there are college deferments.
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #94
135. agree!!
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #49
159. They are not stupid.
If they reinstitute the draft they are well aware that there will be trouble at home. You have to remember that this is the Revenge of the YAFF, that Rove et al are the dipshit rethuglicans from the late 60's and 70's who didn't fit in with the antiwar riot-drug-and-sex festival of the era. They didn't have fun at all back then. They are however all set to bring down a reign of terror on us if and when we take to the streets. They have organized their minions, they have their storm troopers all ready, they have their enabling act in place. They are Good to Go. Are we?

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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #159
179. You got it!
Been trying to tell most I know the same exact thing! Rethuglicans dipshit started during FDR era, factually!

A History major, here! I know. They hated him! He was a Democrat, voted in 4 terms in a row (that's 16 years straight) w/Polio at that. Eleanor fought 16 more years after his death for Women & Black's rights! And our civil liberties.

Note: What the rethuglicans really detested of FDR is the New Deal (SSI) which they refer to as the Raw Deal. Imagine, FDR instilled hope when there was none (soup lines, no jobs, Pearl Harbor), and we came out prouder then ever as Americans, and way better off!

FDR was a WALL STREET Attorney, before becoming our President. What's that tell you about his creation of SSI, and NOT letting it go over to WALL STREET!
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
163. Yes,
and as a 54 year old amputee I would be one of the first on the barricades. No Fucking Draft! Not For Any Reason! Not At Any Time!
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #49
177. Yeah. Then you'll see the masses flip-flopping!
Most don't want to send their children off. Not even those up on that wicked hill!
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
72. Yes indeed.
And weren't we warned about June '05 for Iran? Plus, and I'll have to look for the link, but there was a thread last week or so that said 3,000 troops were on their way to Germany "to train to replace the current troops in Iraq in '06". The interesting thing about that training is that they would be done sometime in June '05.
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msanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
144. Bang, Bang, Bang---No colleges in session to have protests on,
either...
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is true as I understand it.
They have been staffing the draft boards since early last year.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yes they have been staffing the local boards
I've been a board member since February of last year.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. What do you do as a board member?
So, you have the inside scoop? Spill!!!
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:28 AM
Response to Reply #25
101. Like the painting
and quote from Angelia Davis. Love AD, AD for president!
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #101
118. Thanks! AD for President!!! eom
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Pikku Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
198. Have you been called for training?
An acquaintance of mine is on the local draft board, and says that they will be beginning some kind of training soon.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. This is bad
:scared: Of course nobody will believe us unless they are already in the know and everything. :nopity: :cry:
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #2
114. They've been oiling up the machinery or involuntary conscription
since before the invasion.
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JackD76 Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. I hope so, I really want to Visit Mexico
I hope there is a draft, i will celebrate a draft, while i am fleeing of course. If you want americans to wake up, you bring back that good old fashioned draft. Here is a related story.


<http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=27847>
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I was thinking the same thing...
I'm going to get a VW bug and paint it with bright, florescent flowers. I'll have to live in it too, because I can't have an address for them to track me down! :P
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. You mean a bus...
Bugs are kinda small :-)
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Yes, well I'll have to get what I can afford....
:hippie:
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blogbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. Don't blame you..Welcome to DU!
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
86. thanks for
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 01:06 AM by hiley
both links in your post. Don't blame you for fleeing either, that is exactly what I want my 2 sons to do. I was raised with a dad that did over 20 years in the Army as MP and he taught me Stay Away from the Military. During Viet Nam he had to pick up guys stateside for AWOL and everything else.It is strange because he was a strict military man you know, but when it came to that war he did not blame people for leaving America. This man had a military family, both brothers over 25 years, nephews, etc.
My dad hated that fucking war and made by brothers go immediately in the Guard and College. He was not going to stand for them going to Viet Nam !
Served during World War II and Korea and then came VN and he thought it was a vile war and the government had completely lost their minds.



my blog:http://rantsbyhiley.blogspot.com/
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #86
183. Your dad sounds like a helluva guy
the very best sort the military can produce--a no-bullshit type.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
150. yes indeed. He sounds like he is trying to prepare the public.
God knows the WH** won't...

<snip>


Its a concern others should share, he says.

I think it ought to keep all of you awake, he told a gathering of reporters Wednesday.

Nearly 31 years since it replaced the draft Army of both world wars, Korea and Vietnam, the all-volunteer force is facing its first real test, Cody said.

This is the first time weve taken the all-volunteer force into an extended fight, Cody said. Its not a Kosovo, its not a Bosnia, its not a in the Sinai, he said. It is a war. On any given day, we have 156,000 soldiers for 12 months in a combat zone, as well as still all those other commitments.

Its a pace that could be crippling, he said.

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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
6. Ok, I'm under 35, ex military police, but have been out for 10
years and have since become a practicing Buddhist. Can they still recall me? HOLY SHIT!!!!! My boyfriend, who's French, isn't taking this seriously at all, he just laughs and tells me that it's warm in Iraq!!!
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. I'm in the exact same boat - Mp; out 10 years but not Buddist
I can tell you right now, I'm not going. I'll show up fucked up on crack with a dude in a dress. I guess it's a choice of 6 months in jail or 4 years in hell. Hmmm, let me think...
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. that's a good idea....
I figure if they force me to go even though I've converted to Buddhism, I'd just fail the PT since I do have neck injury. My luck, they'd stick me at a desk job anyway. Fuck it, I live in France most of the time anyway. I'll just stay here!!!
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. Klinger? Is that you?
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
70. 3 former MP's out 10 yrs?
Damned strange lol. Y'all Army?
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #70
121. Army here. Ft Mclellan direct to Waynewright! eom
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #121
162. I'd have froze to death lol. McClellan to Rucker for me n/t
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #162
185. I almost did! I went out with damp hair once and it broke off! n/t
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
167. Army - Ft. McClelland and then Schoffeild HI 25 MP corp
I love the smell of pinapples in the morning.
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Andy_Stephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
142. I have my girdle and Sunday
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 12:14 PM by Andy_Stephenson
Dress ready to go to draft board meetings. I make a damned ugly woman...but know all the right things to say to get you disqualified.


"Ethel"
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #142
152. Hi Andy! I was just about to start a thread asking how you were doing!
So....How are you doing?? I've been thinking about you a lot, and sending prayers for a quick and total recovery.

:hug: I think you'd look cute in a dress! :hug: Don't forget to do your nails!!

:loveya:

Sue

:kick::kick::kick:
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mordarlar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #142
187. LOL Andy. Any advice for me? I am 32. : /
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #142
197. hi ethel!
i've been wondering about you. hope you're doing well!
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
178. LOLOL
I know, it's far from funny, but I had to laugh!

:hi:
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BamaGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
69. Me too
well except the practicing Buddhist part lol. I don't think we can be drafted or recalled (unless you were commissioned). As long as you met the terms of your first contract (8 yrs) and are not retired, then you are not recallable, Anyone who has previously served and met obligation should not be subject to the draft. I personally don't believe women will get drafted. Not as long as the RW crazies hold so much sway.
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Contrary1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. I wouldn't bet the house on that...
they will just invent new "rules" to suit them.
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hiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
75. I am sorry but
your boyfriend should take this very seriously !
The people behind PNAC neo-con fascist bastards aren't going to care about anything but what they want.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #75
122. Agreed, but he'd only lived in the States for about 4 mos
He even noticed how are media only reports fluff and not hard news, but that hasn't convinced him that the admin his behind it. We live in Paris now, and I guess he just doesn't believe that there are any more wars on the horizon. He just doesn't have any political leanings at all.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
91. If what they need is civil affairs management and training types
You are a FANTASTIC candidate for recall. Say they want to start training Iraqi cops in country. They snatch you up, send you to a short refresher course (not the full bore bootcamp, a bit more mature, like initial follow-on training) and then off to Texas to that all service MP/MAA school that the air force runs for a quick brush up on your weapons and nightstick, maybe give you a quickie course in basic phrases in Arabic, and maybe a little instructor practice, if that's what they want you to do, or a bit of culture if they expect you to prance around with a couple of local cops providing backup.

I have been sounding this alarm for some time. I see a very TARGETED draft ahead. If they need people who can shoot and kill, they'll get the youth memberships of all the gun clubs, and cull from there first (the younger, the more obedient, the more easily led--fewer health problems, too, usually). If they need doctors, nurses, EMTs to serve as corpsmen/medics, they'll cull the lists and cherrypick out the best ones.

As for those draft skills update cards, I'll betcha a donut there will be a printed warning on them that says something along the lines of "If you lie on this form, it's a ten grand, or twenty five grand, fine, and five or ten in jail." They love getting the penalties for perjury right out front.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. No, remember, you read his lips (no draft) ? % wont be playing soccer..
in five year's, temporary solutions, like campaign promises.
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. O.K. kids you didn't want Private accs. off you go...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
63. You are exactly right and this should be how we frame it.
Start spreading it around: Bush to young(ish) people: Take the private accounts or die.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. Exactly
Bush said in one of his little rally's that he will have an all volunteer army. So it won't be broadcasted. When it does happen it will be too late for a lot of people. All the freepers I've talked to on other boards all say the military is fine in numbers.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
92. He will claim that it is not a "real" draft
Because it will not apply universally. He's good at that--move the goalposts and claim victory.

They'll find another name for the program, something like "Targeted Force Structure Mandatory Service Call-Up"--why use one word (draft) when several will do. They'll actually try to come up with an acronym that the news geeks can easily use, that sounds catchy, so that the news heads don't start using that un-republican draft word.

Force Uptake Call-up to Service might work, yea, F.U.C.K. "Gee Mabel, did you hear little Willie up the street got FUCKED last week?" "Gosh, no, Doris, my little Louise got FUCKED a month ago." Turn on the news, and you'll hear the hairsprayed heads saying things like "FUCKING continues as the war in Iraq drags on. This month, an estimated six thousand law enforcement personnel will be FUCKED, along with 1,500 EMTs. Three thousand nurses are expected to be FUCKED within the next month. The FUCKING will continue until force levels are achieved for a five year occupation cycle."

You can count on them working this with a load of doublespeak that is designed to put you to sleep so you don't pay too much attention. They won't even waste time on fatties with glasses, at least not at the outset. They'll pick through until they get the ones that can be trained the quickest (training=HUGE expenditure, the shorter, the cheaper--even a one day reduction means BIG money savings) who already have civilian training that marries well with the jobs they need to fill, who are healthy, and they'll probably go for singles first, then married, then married with kids.

You know, if we go back to a shooting war, rather than a sniping war, if I were a kid who ever got a hunting license or joined a Rifle Club, I'd be nervous as hell.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #92
104. LOL
Love TFSMSCU or FUCK!
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #92
123. I most certainly do not want to get "FUCKED"! LOL eom
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. How? How are they going to enforce it?
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 09:37 PM by NEOBuckeye
I still don't buy any of these Draft reinstatment claims. There exists now, a majority of people in this country who stand against the War in Iraq and are demanding that the troops be brought home. Reinstating the Draft now would spark major riots and perhaps even a revolt against the BFEE. Unless they have a genuine wish to commit suicide, or are even more stupid than we know, I just don't see it happening.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. A commenter on that diary post feels the same way
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/3/19/191951/450/13?mode=alone;showrate=1#13

"Any Congressman voting for the draft better plan on getting a new job.

"Bush may want to stay in Iraq, but when you say draft, Iraq suddenly doesn't become that important any more. If they ain't volunteering and collecting those bonuses, they sure as shit will not accept a draft.

"If there is even a trial balloon on the draft, you want class warfare, you got it. Too many Vietnam Vets remember who went and who didn't to sit by and send their kids to Iraq."
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. The draft will happen once
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 10:15 PM by pstans
The draft will happen right after Iran or Syria does something major or after another terrorist attack. Iran or Syria will threaten or attack Israel, a US aircraft carrier will get attacked, a US embassy will get bombed, etc.

Then they will sell it as we have to go and get some more evil-doers. It will happen so fast that some people will think it was planned, well it is actually planned. Check out the PNAC.

They went to Iraq not to find WMD's or oust Sadaam, but to establish a long term milirary base in the Middle East, so they can gain control of the last oil reserves in the world. The has just started and they need some more troops. Cheney has been quoted as saying we will be at war in the Middle East for the rest of our lifetime. They want to do it fast, so they can clean it up enough by 2008 to have another Rethug elected.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
65. Yep.
They don't actually use the word draft, but the message is clear:

So we write to ask you and your colleagues in the legislative branch to take the steps necessary to increase substantially the size of the active duty Army and Marine Corps. While estimates vary about just how large an increase is required, and Congress will make its own determination as to size and structure, it is our judgment that we should aim for an increase in the active duty Army and Marine Corps, together, of at least 25,000 troops each year over the next several years.

-Hoot

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
67. Good Points....it will happen so fast we won't even know it...an Incident
happens to rile the people up...some kind of attack and the country goes back into "war mode" worried about futher attacks here or abroad.

Draft is instated just like they got Patriot Act and Irag Invasion through real fast.

He already has war powers...he can do whatever he wants. And he will.
:scared:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #67
103. REMEMBER THE MAINE!!!!!!!
...and the Gulf of Tokin!

And initially, they will claim that this is a very LIMITED, very SPECIALIZED "opportunity to involuntarily volunteer." Most of you don't have to worry, they will say, most of you will not be called....and it is only because of this (insert trumped-up incident) grave and unforseen emergency!

And the sheep will probably believe it...until they start coming for their loved ones, and then it might be too late.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #47
117. I can't disagree.
Each day I wake up and The Incident hasn't occurred, I'm surprised.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
180. Thats The Way I See It
Step 1) Israel strikes Iran's nuclear infrastructure.

Step 2) Iran lash's out at US forces in gulf region. Look for the Kitty Hawk and John F. Kennedy steaming up and down the coast of Iran supporting operations, in harm's way.

Step 3) Our Leader goes in front of Congress, says that we are victims of an unprovoked attack, like Pearl Harbor, calls for a draft to raise sufficient military strength to deal with the rogue nation of Iran.

Step 4) Occupy SW corner of Iran, flatlands (tank country) where oil is. Brutally suppress any remaining opposition in Iraq with our new draftee legions to liberate them from the oppressive burden of oil wealth.

Step 5) Give massive contracts to Halliburton and other buddies to sell off the Iranian oil as 'reparations' for their dastardly attack.

Step 6a) The Oligarchs get rich.

Step 6b) The rest of us go broke or die trying to push through the Zagros mountains and occupy Iran. Of course, this part of the substep is not that important to the leadership.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
51. OK, how's this scenario. They order a limited draft. Just to make
current recruiting goals, say 3500 people. With the force of law behind them, they give a choice of 2 years regular army, or 3 years guard service. The majority, not wanting to break the law, will choose one or the other. But they issue notices for 5000 people, not 3500. As many as 1500 could refuse, and they'd still meet their goals, and claim it is a success. Of that other 1500, they arrest all they can get their hands on and have a couple high profile trials using their best federal attorneys, set up for sympathetic courts. How many kids, after that, would rather spend 2 years in Leavenworth than 2 years in the Army?

The next draft would be much bigger, but they'll have made their point, and get 80% compliance.

Even during the worst of Vietnam, the draft got something like 95% compliance. It had been in place since Korea and very few even considered not registering, and most of those who registered, very few fled or applied for CO status.

They can do it, if they want. These are kids coming out of school, and school is all about socialization and compliance expectations.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #51
106. And jobs are few and far between
Gotta keep the youngsters employed! And putting them to work makes the chimp's employment numbers look better, too.

A lot like Turkey...the military is the biggest single employer, everyone gets a shot at doing their mandatory service, and those paltry paychecks grease the economy.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. Lets see how popular War and killing are with Repukes in 75 days then...
When their kids and grandkids are called up to join in on the fun in Iraq. I bet that tough ass War talk will be replaced by worrying about when their kid ships out.

You know what Repukes? I don't give a rats ass if your kid goes,you voted for this little dictator twice now. His maligned,crazed PNAC policy's and corporate give aways are biting everyone in the ass.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
34. I thought there's another Election in October in Iraq. Why the speed up ?
unless Iraqis aren't being recruited to defend their own country ? This is exactly what happened in So. Vietnam when they became dependent upon US soldiers to provide security; along with an entirely corrupt administration which made things even worse.

Read "Nixon's Treason" from TomPaine,com

www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/3621

Eventually it will come down to cutting off funds for the war, just as Vietnam did. The military will do all it can to keep us IN there even though it knows as we all do that alternatives to Middle Eastern oil are the only long-term security this country can rely upon.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
88. Thing is
Their kids and grandkids won't see a day of fighting. The draft is supposed to be universal but money can always get you out of it. Ask George W. Bush.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #88
137. Thats where Dems should step in......
NO college deferments,no married deferments,no phony medical deferments,no nothing.....

If Bush wants to keep his War On the rich kids can go get their asses killed also....
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #137
199. RE: "Thats where Dems should step in......"
NO college deferments,no married deferments,no phony medical deferments,no nothing.....

If Bush wants to keep his War On the rich kids can go get their asses killed also....


Excatly! If there were to be "a true need" for forcing people into uniforms, there can be no exclusions. After all the military provides medical care for it's members free of charge so only the most severe medical conditions should warrent exclusion. No need for college deferments because the military will pay for college after the enlistment is up.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
153. Oh they'll target DEMS FIRST NO DOUBT. RETHUGS AKA FREEPERS WON'T GO
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 02:24 PM by TheGoldenRule
aka "get drafted" or if they do it will be in very very very SMALL numbers.
Fckin Bastards that * & Co are!!! :mad:
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
13. That will be the final split between the bush regime and the people
of this coutnry.

I think even some of the mr. and mrs. USA under God crowd will balk when their own children are dragged away.

There'll have to be another attack to manipulate "the people" into some form of acceptance, but I don't believe it will work.

This will be the straw for most. It will eventually force the remaining national guard to chose between obeying the chickenhawk war pigs and killing their own neighbors who have taken to the streets, or joining the revolt.

I hope the rumor of the draft is wrong, but my gut says no.
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I agree. This may be what finallly drives the GOP from power.
Even today, most Americans don't think they have a real, pressing need to pay attention to politics. If they are employed, have food on the table, that Suburban dream home, a couple of SUVs, and room still left in their Credit Limit to charge up what they don't have, they probably think everything is fine.

But when the BFEE & NeoCons come knocking on their front door to drag their sons, daughters, and maybe even themselves off to bash and rape brown-skinned Iraqis for control of all that "Black Gold" that is the point when Americans have no other choice but to wake up and see how sick our country has become.

If the Draft is truly on the way, then the Republicans have just sealed their party's fate. Their power trip has finally caused them to overreach and directly claim control of the life of the average American citizen. I don't see any other recourse than taking to the streets and fighting back against these arrogant, power-mad thugs. They can no longer be allowed to abuse their power in office, and must be brought to justice.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #31
54. ((((applause))) Terrific post! (nt)
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
44. I'm with you
It's quite telling of what has happened since 9/11 and the military. After 9/11 a lot of people joined to "get revenge" on what happened. They started out right but then the neocons in Bush's camp knew it'd be the perfect timing to go into Iraq. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked and they'll follow. Watch the documentary "Hijacking Castrophe" if you haven't yet. You can see it at http://www.informationclearinghouse.info Something will have to happen for people to gear up to join the military again and get revenge on what happened since people are starting to question and wonder about the war (unless they're blind followers of course). I think if they do try a draft, unless they have another attack, it will be a secret thing. People will be called and when they know it'll be too late to leave and all that. It's impossible to continue all these wars that Bush wants to do since the military has lost so many people. :( They are definietly stretched. I worry too.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
15. What dos Charles Rangle say.....
...he was asking for the draft back in 2001 right after 9-11. He knew then that a disproportional hardship would fall on the poor and economically powerless and was attempting to have all economic segments share the burden of going to war.
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Chicago1 Donating Member (560 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
16. If you read the post, you'll see A MAJORITY OF RESPONDERS DISAGREED!!
I read the post and the comments that replied and ALOT OF RESPONDERS AGREED THAT A DRAFT IS POLITICAL SUICIDE. I've been posting that SAME MESSAGE to all the draft comments on here. I was THRILLED to see that other people agree with me.

The White House knows that the Congresspeople and Senators ARE NOT going to lose their jobs over this. This is POLITICAL SUICIDE and all the republicans WILL JUMP SHIP!!!! Iraq is not going to be that important if the draft is started. The alarmist RIDICULOUS PEOPLE who post this should be arrested for stopping the heart beat of other people.

REALITY: The White House has ALOT of scandals coming and they know it. The scandals are coming FAST AND FURIOUS. The size and amount of scandals is BIGGER than any other President and administration in history. You can't have scandal and war going at the same time. There's not going to be a draft and this country WILL NOT ALLOW THE CARNAGE AND A WHOLE GENERATION TO BE WIPED OUT that was ahnialated in Vietnam.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I hope you are right.
But many strange, previously unthinkable things have already happened here in the U.S. I hope this is the next one.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. I don't think it's about Iraq anymore....
He's threatening Syria, Iran, North Korea, etc. We have to staff our existing bases around the world as well as new posts like Afghanistan. I think Bushy boy has huge war plans on the horizan and wants to start building up his arms.

Is it political suicide? yes

But Bush and congress are well aware that in times of war, elections are suspended. If they are staffing the draft boards, we should be concerned, very concerned.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
46. Something will happen
to get more troops. The Bush camp does want to go into Iran though. So I don't know. And they'll be in Iraq another four or five years since the Iraqi military isn't ready yet. I was watching a BBC special on the info house site (it has General Clark in it) and they're talking to an Iraqi who's in charge of the Iraqi military (he worked for Saddam too). He said he thought they'd be totally ready in at least another four years. So how are they going to do it? It will be political suicide and they know that. Why else would Bush have to tell people there won't be a draft? They have SOMETHING up their sleeves though. Maybe someone can look into the PNAC plans and see if they tell?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
55. That's a little overblown. A generation was not nearly wiped out
in vietnam -- unless you're talking about the vietnamese. We lost 50,000 dead and something like 300,000 wounded. Over a ten year period. Out of a baby boom bulge of something like 75 million. Hardly wiped out.

All it would take is another catastrophic attack on US soil. They might or might not get volunteers, but the draft would be reinstated anyway, because the number of volunteers will quickly drop off again. They aren't making goals right now, even with extraordinary sign-up bonuses.

As I said above, at first it would be a small draft, with some show trials of refusniks, just to get us used to it. Within a year or so later, it would explode.

And they can do it. Believe it.
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #55
128. I think that another attack on US soil, which it is clear this
administration is willing to engineer to meet their devious goals, would only cause the people here to want to stay and defend their country on its own soil, in other words, adopt a totally isolationist policy. They've already seen what a miserable failure going over to 'kick butt' in Iraq has been. We've even had Governors in red states calling for the guardsman to come home because there aren't enough of them to fight a friggin forest fire if they break out this summmer again. The MSM has deflated the numbers of people opposed to the occupation of Iraq considerably over time. I think there are a lot more of us than there are supporters of 'endless war' and growing numbers of people waking up to the reality of His Fraudulency's lies and policies. I hope so anyway.

Reinstating the draft will not affect Rethugs getting re-elected if the voting machine and election fraud problems haven't been fixed however, so that might not be a deterrent for them endorsing a draft. It's hard to say what will happen. Anyone on a draft board aware of whether or not they plan on drafting women too. That will cause a serious backlash even among die hard supporters of the blivet.
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #16
138. I'm wondering
does Congress have to pass a law to undue the 1973 end to a draft? As Commander in Chief, can an executive order do it? Fought in the court's, with a right wing judge/SC upholding it? Particularly if there is a "stated emergency?" Hell, we go to WAR without a constitutionally required Congressional declaration -- reinstating a draft seems like nothing compared to that. The only thing Congress would have at its disposal is the purse string -- but as we know from the defiance of the Bollman Amendment during Contra gate, that doesn't mean anything, either.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #138
140. I've asked some people about this
some US historians, and they have told me it does need to go through congress. They might be wrong. It's important to know for sure.

The Boland amendment isn't a good parallel, because the Reagan administration got around that in secret. A draft by definition is not secret. It's also incorrect that the only power congress has is the budget. If you look at the Constitution, there are a great many powers that reside with congress, including impeachment and conviction.
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #140
146. thanks
I mentioned the Boland amendment as an example of getting around the purse string thing,cut the money off, and they still find other ways,allbethey illegal,to fund the operation. In the end, it doesn't matter what the laws say as long as you have a court which will uphold your action.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #146
148. true about the courts. and a scary prospect
I tend to think we wouldn't have a draft unless there is another terrorist attack on US soil.
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #148
157. I kind of feel the same way
although the skills draft could come before something like that happening. I do, however, think that if this admin can pull off another big WMD scare -- like N. Korea or Iran is about to send a nuke -- it could happen sooner than an attack here. The people are soooo gullible.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
181. Now, I like your post!
I want to see those FAST & FURIOUS "Scandals" before June 1st! Please!

:bounce::bounce::bounce:
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tuvor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. Related article
Two Years Later, Iraq War Drains Military

Two years after the United States launched a war in Iraq (news - web sites) with a crushing display of power, a guerrilla conflict is grinding away at the resources of the U.S. military and casting uncertainty over the fitness of the all-volunteer force, according to senior military leaders, lawmakers and defense experts.

Unexpectedly heavy demands of sustained ground combat are depleting military manpower and gear faster than they can be fully replenished. Shortfalls in recruiting and backlogs in needed equipment are taking a toll, and growing numbers of units have been broken apart or taxed by repeated deployments, particularly in the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve.

"What keeps me awake at night is, what will this all-volunteer force look like in 2007?" Gen. Richard A. Cody, Army vice chief of staff, said at a Senate hearing this week.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&e=15&u=/washpost/a48306_2005mar18
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. We must use whatever means necessary to sabotage conscription
We must organize civic resistance to the draft, and we must plan for a way to provide assistance to those that choose to evade the draft by leaving the country.
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toymachines Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. an underground railroad of draft dodgers
it seems like the time to take my break from society is nigh. being a ripe for the picking 19 y old male they will have a gun in my hand asap. i hope to god you guys are right in thinking that they wouldnt insate the draft. but what i have seen come from this regime....i am afraid.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
32. The Underground Dodgers! eom
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Snap Donating Member (361 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. RESIST
That's right, a draft will galvanize the people. An interesting sideshow will be Bush's shit getting blown all over the place.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. nothing is preordained. It would have to go through Congress
and if you think they were frightened over the fallout on Social Security, just wait until they start debating a draft.
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Ellen Forradalom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. good point
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
139. would it?
see my question #138
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #23
35. Don't the repukes have control of the Congress? eom
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #35
60. do you think there is a big Republican groundswell for a draft?
Do you imagine Democrats are the only ones who don't want to be drafted? If a draft were to be implemented, you'd see opposition to this war grow tremendously.
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #60
120. It does seem that more of the Repukes do support the war
and that fortifies the repuke resolve. I have a few republican friends, and family and they tell me all the time that Bush was right to invade Iraq and that Iraq and the world will be better off without Saddam. Really, most of these people get their info from Faux news, there's no telling what kind of spin, or scare they might put out there to enforce their agenda. I don't put it past them to create more scares and start creating more nationalist rhetoric. Heil Bush! They might even create a mandatory 1 or 2 yr military service requirement directly out of high school like they have in Israel and a few European countries.
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Discord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #60
124. since when do the Repukes give a shit
about their own constituents?
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #124
141. they don't have to give a shit
but they do want to be re-elected. They respond to pressure from constituents. Why do you think social security privatization is dead in the water? Why do you suppose they've taken action on the Schiavo matter? Because they've been flooded with phone calls on these matters.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #141
154. "they do want to be re-elected." Computerized vote counting machines
do that for them. Repukes don't have to worry about an election. They'll keep their jobs, and they will have even more repukes elected -- "Americans supporting the war effort" will be the spin on the news.


:kick::kick::kick:
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #154
164. I'm tried of defeatism
So is that what you say to absolve yourself of any responsibility for political change in this country? Argue it's all fixed in advance so you don't need to do anything? No wonder the Right wins. They have been willing to work for it. Politics isn't a spectator sport. Nothing is a more complete demonstration of power and tyranny than convincing the American public they have no power to change things. But that's a form of tyranny that succeeds with our full complicity. It's our responsibility to make sure they don't succeed. You're quite right that they may very well triumph, but only as long as people like you and I let them. When you succumb to that kind of defeatism you make their job all the easier. In so doing, you ally yourself firmly with the Right, whether you realize it or not. When Americans act like sheep, we bring about governments that treat us as such. We have the kind of government we do because Americans allow it. That will only change when enough of us are willing to work for something better.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #164
170. And I'm tired of the type of DENIAL that keeps saying "we'll vote 'em out"
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 06:22 PM by loudsue
THAT is what keeps up the totally innacurate meme that says our votes count. THAT is what plays into the hands of the republicans, who think we'll just move on until after we lose the next election, when once again, we'll whine for a month or two, and then worry about the NEXT election.

You want "activism"?? Fine! Join us in full-court-press activism toward our state legislatures to get rid of the republican owned vote counting machines, and the system they use to implement that. Speak out at every civic club meeting, write letters to the editor, go door to door to keep people informed about the dangers of these black boxes. Take your literature with you.

Quit trying to DUPE people into believing they are going to have some say in their government, as long as these machines and procedures are in place for our elections. It is NOT going to happen, unless we make it happen. That is where I'm putting my focus, time and energy. If people don't do it now, we'll just have the same outcome next time.

Being in DENIAL about the importance of this issue is complete "defeatism"....it's a sure prescription for defeat.

:kick::kick::kick:

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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #170
174. I'm not in denial
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 06:53 PM by imenja
but according to you it's all useless since the Right controls everything. If I am to believe you, organizing is pointless.

By the way, I am working on election reform. I happen to believe it's my responsibility to take action. Your posts suggests the whole exercise is meaningless. If I were to believe that, why would I bother? You say lobbying congress and voting accomplishes nothing, yet you say you are working on election reform. Why? You seem determined to spread the word that we can accomplish nothing. If you really want to motivate people to engage in activism, arguing that it's pointless is obviously counter productive. If others read your posts and agree with you, they will certainly decide nothing they do means anything. Is that the message you want to send?
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #154
188. how does a few screwed up voting machines in Ohio
lead to the conclusion that ALL elections EVERYWHERE are fixed?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. Hmmm...have to go through Congress?
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 09:57 PM by Horse with no Name
What was that little legislation they spirited through today to keep Terri Schiavo alive?
I have a feeling this was a trial run to see how many people would react to their little ole meeting that produced some results...perhaps it was done so they can do the same for a draft or perhaps it was attached to this bit of legislation since they both serve the greater good <sarcasm off>?
Who knows anymore. Sigh.
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
59. they got lots of phone calls on the Schiavo matter
The right gets their agenda put forward because they work for it. If you want to make sure a draft isn't passed, start calling your representatives.
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latteromden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
30. June? Wasn't June also the month tossed around for Iran operations?
Or am I going crazy? :crazy:
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
36. Hmmm, June 15 was also Ritter's date for action against Iran.
And if they are dumb enough to actually do that a draft will be needed.

Critical skills will be required though. "Can you walk and chew gum? Good, here's your gun."
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pnutchuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. Especially since Russia and China are buddied
up to Iran right now. WWIII? Not trying to be apocalyptic but, this admin is completely out of control. And for all we know, this whole thing has been conceived by all of the world leaders at the last G8 summit. Since economies are slumping, why not start a world war to pep them up?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
41. I've a dozen teenagers playing music in the other room.
fuck
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Discord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #41
125. ouch.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #125
147. They had a anti-war conversation during their party
Seems that none of them support the Iraq invasion and none support the draft. They are upset about talk that the don't ask don't tell clause may be taken away and a couple of the girls talked about getting dual citizenships. Interesting group. Then on to loud technomusic and eye rolling at me whenever I'd appear.
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Discord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #147
168. lmao.
sounds like an interesting group.
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Goldmund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
42. I posted a poll
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
43. DRAFT FREEPERS!!
We all know they're too chickenshit to fight a war they support!!

All the rest start practicing how to be conscientious objectors.

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LdyGuique Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
45. Every year, the Selective Services issues an annual report
It is always delivered on March 31st.

The Annual Selective Service Plan for 2004 was issued on March 31st, 2003. It called for the next "annual" report to be issued on March 31st, 2005, which would make it a biennial report.

ANNUAL PERFORMANCE REPORT

An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these performance measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005. This report will address attained versus planned levels of performance, explain unattained target levels, and identify where and how strategies, performance goals, and performance indicators should be changed to
ensure that the SSS reaches its strategic and annual goals and objectives.


The "2004" Report lists a whole series of "Strategic Objectives," which does include:

Strategic Objective 1.2: Ensure a mobilization infrastructure of 56 State Headquarters, 442 Area Offices and 1,980 Local Boards are operational within 75 days of an authorized return to conscription.


There are a whole series of strategic objectives to making the SSS ready for a draft, if one were mandated by Congress. It does take Congress to reinstate the draft.

Read the entire 2004 Report on what the various strategic objectives were assigned and/or wait until the March 31st release of new "annual" report.

It's hardly surprising that both the Armed Forces Committee or the Pentagon would want to see an updated report or ongoing planning for implementing a draft, especially since we are at war and are failing to meet the volunteer armed forces objectives for enlistment. It doesn't mean that a draft will be reinstated nor that it will be done behind closed doors or even through an Executive Order.



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Calvinist Basset Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
48. George Bush is an evil, evil man. n/t
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. Other sources have pointed toward June as an important month...
It's interesting that Seymour Hersh and Scott Ritter have identified June as a month during which a Middle-East invasion will happen.

This Daily Kos report alone is interesting, but not alarming.

However, when combined with information about June happenings--that come from credible, insider sources--it does make one pause.

There's no way America would approve a draft--unless that America was terrified and paralyzed.

Obviously, something pretty substantial has to happen between now and June--for any of this to come to fruition. Americans would detest a draft. To ask for additional Mid-East invasions, when support for Iraq is tanking--would be political suicide.

So. What in the hell are they planning?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. With the 75 day start up, the question is
What are they planning for the next 4 weeks?
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #58
66. Is frightening to think about...
...and I'm tired of waking up and wondering what these weasels will do next.

Can't they all just leave on a Carnival Cruise for a month or so?
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huellewig Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #53
112. political suicide...
Bush is unemployed in 2008 and he is safe until then. He is already rich so I doubt he cares much about his political future. If he does care it is only about what they will say in the history books.

Congresspeople get cushy jobs as lobbyist after their term is over so I doubt they care much either.

Republicans are not known for looking out for others so I doubt they really care about who gets the job after them.

My thoughts. Bush wanted two things out of this term, private accounts and Iran. The first looks not so good and the second is doable. I don't think any of them give a shit about the political repercussions.
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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
56. And what about Hitler and all those other failed leaders of horrific
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 10:56 PM by tlcandie
events? There came a point of the ridiculous and of no return and they pushed on anyway... pride/ego and thoughts that they were the untouchables because they were teflon coated and nothing had stuck thus far, but then.... it happened and the end came faster than the rise to fame.

It happens. It has happened and it can happen again, just like in times past. And these people aren't even functioning on all cylinders.

Sounds crazy! How crazy did these other moves sound with previous leaders?!?! Just as crazy to those around them who did not drink the kool-aid, yet they did it anyway and now they are infamous instead of famous.

BRING IT ON!!!

EDIT: I'm just saying...
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Neoma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
57. I heard this 2 days ago
:(
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
61. Bush and his group will need some type of "terrorist incident"...
...,if this is true, within the next 75 days. They'll need something that will help to minimize the backlash of initiating a draft - and to justify it to some of the American people - and to scare Congress into going along.....
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Discord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
133. I'm worried about this above all.
How long until the right-wingers start bombing malls and hotels to scare people into supporting the draft. I wouldn't put it past them. Actually, sadly enough, I'm almost expecting it.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
62. Yes A Draft would be Political Suicide
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 11:11 PM by TheWatcher
But it would only be Political Suicide if we actually still had a representative government, which we no longer do.

With the implementation of electronic voting, we do not have a process by which to participate in the process of government any longer.

With the passage of draconian legislation that has been rammed through Congress since 9/11, these people have all the tools they need to lock this country down, or at least attempt to.

Is anything absolute? Will everything go as they planned?

There is no way we can know that, but everyone needs to realize that these people simply do not CARE. They BELIEVE they are invincible, omnipotent, and can do whatever they want, and they WILL find a way to subvert any law, regulation, and this entire populace if they have to in order to get things done.

They are GOING to do SOMETHING.

And while it is true they would be vastly overreaching if they tried this, all it is going to take is an Operation Northwoods type event, and enough of the population will submit or even support what they want to do, and it won't matter what the rest of us think.

Dont think they will do it? I will say it again....OPERATION NORTHWOODS. They were plenty ready to kill their own people in the 60's to invade Cuba, and I don't think it is too much of a stretch to think they would do it in order to continue war and conquest without end.

The people must wake up somehow to the fact these people simply DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY. They do not CARE. They do not represent us, they do not work for us, they merely use us as a means to their own end. PERIOD. Whatever "freedom" we have left in this country is only there because the illusion of democracy must be kept alive. When Bush said a dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, he meant it, and don't think that the little madman and his handlers don't want to give it a shot. If they think they can get away with it, THEY ARE GOING TO TRY.

I'm sorry guys, I know this kind of talk sparks a bit of rough edges, but this is what we are living in now.

I do not want to believe it myself, but it is becoming more and more apparent, that sooner or later, we are going to have to FIGHT these people, literally, to get our country back. It may be the only way to make them STOP. Because they have been busier than a beaver in a forest making sure that any hope of change through the legislative or judiciary process is an IMPOSSIBILITY.

Things are going to come to a head in this country, and they may have to if we are to have a hope of surviving.

We simply cannot go on like this.

We CANNOT.

And if we keep this up, sooner or later, it may not be our choice as to how we put a stop to it.

What really scares me is what it is going to take to get most in this country to take these people seriously for they threat that they TRULY are.

Just remember when you are speculating about these people's actions:

They CAN.

They HAVE DONE SO IN THE PAST.

They WILL.

Do NOT doubt them.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. Believe me, I hold no illusions, when it comes to this crew....
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #64
68. Indeed
Edited on Sat Mar-19-05 11:30 PM by TheWatcher
And none of us should.

The question one needs to be asking oneself is if they can continue to do whatever they want unopposed.....

WHY WON'T THEY?

There is absolutely no reason for any of us to believe that they will not continue to create even greater horrors than they have already created.

And they will probably continue to do so unabated, UNTIL THEY ARE STOPPED.

The Nazis didn't stop killing people in the camps or invading countries simply because people got a bit upset about it and told them they needed to stop.

Yes I know, I know, we shouldn't be making those comparisons, right?

Why not?

The only differences I see is that the approach this time is a lot more subtle and subversive, because obviously you are not going to try and market the product the same way twice, are you?

But given time, I truly believe these thugs could go furter than Hitler ever dreamed.

And the question that needs to be answered is most simple, but carries more urgency than perhaps we have ever known.....A question Mike Malloy pondered very grimly the day after the election.....

WHAT'S TO STOP THEM?
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #68
155. Okay, after reading your posts, I am scared shitless...
Care to post what kind of attacks they may be planning? A heads up would be helpful... Are we talking airports, federal buildings, concerts, schools...what?!!! And remember how a few months back congress passed that doomsday bill....?!
I shudder to think what the f ck * has planned! :scared:
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livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #62
126. I wish I could say otherwise, but...
unfortunately I have to agree with you, Watcher. They have all the tools they need to get some form of conscription going, perhaps even without the majority of the people being aware it is taking place, until it escalates into a larger calling. A "skills draft" could easily be introduced, particularly if it was pushed as a non-combat employment. Besides, wouldn't it be considered unpatriotic, even bordering on supporting the terrorists, to be opposed? A 9/11 type event would be a great motivator. There are many, many ways the nitwit and his malicious troop can pursue their agenda. And, like you said, they don't care about the population of this country. People are used and tossed aside when they are no longer useful. They don't care, and they will do whatever they want, until it is no longer possible. Not only is the evidence in their past actions, but I "feel" it, like I know many here on DU feel it. I'm not a conspiracy advocate, and one doesn't need to be, to see the massive amount of wrongdoing this administration is guilty of inflicting on the citizens of this country, others around the world, and even the planetary environment.
I think you're right on the money, Watcher. They have desire, the tools they need, an uninformed, gullible though well-meaning populace, and lack the conscience that would prevent a truly spiritual, responsible, and insightful person from doing the deeds they so willingly embrace.
I don't mean to be a doomsayer. I think of myself as more of a realist. I like to know what I'm up against.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
71. I received this email about the draft back in November
I didn't post anything about it because I couldn't confirm the source. I took it with a grain of salt (still do) but now I find it a bit more interesting.

-------------------------------------------

Message 1 of 23 Subject 16 of 50
Subject: DRAFT BEGINS IN MAY - 2005
Date: Wed, Nov 3, 2004 6:20 PM
From: SexyMtnBabe
MsgId: 547746:21200


I am in the miltary and some paperwork crossed my desk last week stating that ~ according to Bush ~ the draft is going to begin in May, 2005. Men and women, ages 18-35... doesn't matter if you have kids, married, or pregnant (they'll take you after you have the baby).
THANK YOU to all of you who voted for Bush. I sincerely hope your ass gets sent over to Iraq to help our troops. You want Bush and you want us in Iraq, but you don't want to be the one to give your life over there! You hypocrites should join us in Iraq if you feel THAT strongly about supporting Bush! I look forward to drafting you and sending you over there.

-------------------------------------

I guess it's still a wait and see kind of thing.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. Interesting - but there are always decoy's floated to test the waters
the fact that that is posted here makes it most assuredly a deliberate ploy to get the ball rolling somewhat, see what people's reactions will be AND get people used to the idea. It won't happen in the time quoted though - I'm sure of that. Maybe later - maybe.
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HeeBGBz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #78
113. It wasn't posted here. It was an email I received from a friend
I didn't post it here until last night. I got the email last November.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #113
136. Yeah - perhaps it's something to watch closely
But it sounds like the friend is against the war effort (if I remember correctly - it was last night I originally read this) and may be being used as well. I just don't think they have blls big enough to start that part of the Vietnam replay over again. If there is a draft - well, we all know what the result will be. Let me just say Vietnam will become insignificant...
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Fovea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
74. At first there will be shocked silence and relief.
Because most people don't have medical skills. But of course, that is the first round.

Given time there will be riots-- there always have been.

They will be put down brutally.

Some will flee, no longer to Canada, sadly. Some will go to prison. Most will show up at the induction point as scheduled, a few with their gay lover in tow.

But this is the chute into the abattoir, it is greased with light, sweet crude. We are entering America's darkest hour. Because it is a only an single theater of an ongoing gang war over energy resources, the war will spread to the entire Muslim world, go nuke, and by the time we run out of oil enough to run a war machine, the world will have vast wastelands. A Billion or two will die in the conflagration and aftermath. That's about the size of it. Have a nice day.

This is **'s mandate from his masters. Bring all of Arakis under the Emperor. I want 50 more legions of Sardukan! The spice must flow!
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BronxBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:46 AM
Response to Reply #74
110. LOL
Watch how gay friendly the military will become when it needs bodies.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
76. yes, I feel a draft
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-19-05 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
77. there will be no draft
Not this year, and not while GWB is in office. The Republicans are too smart to hand us such an issue. you guys are dreamers.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. I agree - these are just decoys floated out there to make us look nutty
I don't buy it.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Yeah, but
our guys are biting. Rangel is an ass.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #82
90. I dunno - I think Rangel is calling their bluff
It's kinda funny what he is doing if you think about it...
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #90
129. I don't
know. I think he looks like a fool, and a hypocrite.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #129
134. I think he's foolish - like a fox
I really do...
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #134
175. Maybe so.
We'll get a better idea in 2006. But there will be no draft.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #77
80. They don't need to worry about losing voters anymore
Now that they have mastereds the arts of media manipulation and election fraud, the neocons can do as they please.

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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #80
83. Right, but
they will not please to reinstate the draft. You'll see. No draft in 2005, 2006, 2007, or 2008. My crystal ball is cloudy after that.

And of course, as I claim t be psychic, well I can't be wrong, can I?

But there willbe no draft.
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BronxBoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #80
111. Great Artwork
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rainbow4321 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
81. Webpage: Skills/Medical Draft Timeline info gotten w/ FOIA
http://blatanttruth.org/draft.php

In short, if a Skills Draft and Medical Draft are authorized by Bush and the Republican Congress in 2005, nearly 40 million young people and a somewhat overlapping 13.5 million doctors, nurses and specialists ages 2044 will have to go to their local Post Office and register with the IRS. The form will have on it a list of several hundred skills for the skills draft, and at least 61 medical specialties for the Medical Draft form, probably along with a host of other medical occupations, from dental lab technician to health forms processor. Under penalty of a $250,000 fine, these tens of millions of Americans will self-declare their name, address, and all of their skillsand they could be drafted for any one of themby writing down the coded number for that occupation. Recently, the DoD asked the IRS to help them track down the whereabouts of 50,000 Ready Reserve soldiers they had lost track of, so not registering could be very problematic in 2005.

But this new FOI-recovered document and the actions that the SSS admits they are taking in 2004 proves that at the very least, a Skills Draft and Medical Draft are being quietly readied for 2005just in case.

<snip>
Part of the timeline:

May 1, 2004Eric Rosenberg writes an article on the Skills Draft Agenda memo with the memo in handbut fails to mention several key points: skills conscription would be expanded to fill labor shortages throughout the Dept of Homeland Security, which is 1/3 of the whole government, the Skills Draft can be called without a combat draft, Skills induction will take a mere 90 days of reauthorization, the SSS wants to promptly change the very MISSION of the SSS, and so on. The article does, however, reveal many major points of the sweeping plan.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/171522_draft01.html



Summer, Fall, 2004Mock Combat Draft Lottery held, and sample medical exam report orders issued to sample addresses, using mailing list software. Alternative Service is geared up for the first time in 31 years. Papers to place Conscientious Objectors with employers as Alternative Service Workers are actually drawn up. With the Alternative Service for the first time geared up in the culmination of a 5-year readiness plan, the SSS is brought up to 95% operational capability. Full Medical Draft capability is set for 2005, and all Draft Board vacancies are to be filled by Spring 2005, according to a column by Ted Rall. The SSS must report to the Director on March 31, 2005, that the entire system could be operational within 75 days. This means that all 1,980 local draft board offices would be open by June 15, 2005. Theoretically, the first Draft Lottery for Combat for 20-year-olds and older Skills and Medical registrants could then take place. http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
84. Probably got it from Rense, who got it from the SSS page at:
http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

Note that this was LAST YEAR, and was the normal annual report.

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Benno Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
85. Was wondering
what everyone else thought about the fact that in this document it only calls for the draft of non-combat skills and medical skills..

I could see how this could be spun into something like Patriotism in Action, without using the word draft or anything equivalent. Then later on down the line using it as a means to draft people for combat, or maybe this document is already saying that, I only skimmed the document that was posted on dailykos and didn't see anything to the effect of using it for combat (not that I want to be drafted in any fashion for this corrupt administration.)
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cobaindrain Donating Member (731 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
87. I always wanted to go to Canada and be a hockey pla.....
...oh wait, they don't play anymore.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
89. an ache in my stomach just started
I sure hope we don't have a draft , but when it starts
every republican I've warned about the draft who laughed
at me will think of me as their heart begins to pound ,
will they ask themselves "if she was correct about that
what else is she correct about ?"

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JackD76 Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
93. The Republicans are Fucked No Matter What they Do
If they don't draft, they can't start any more wars. If they do draft, then their party falls apart. They also have the problem of people not joining the armed forces anymore. Plus the fact that no progress is being made in Iraq. We will have troops their for years to keep the peace, which will piss off a lot of families and a lot of troops. Just imagine putting your life on hold for ten years. We also have massive debts. Drilling in an area that more Americans don't want to drill in. Gas prices that are rising. A social security plan that has fallen apart. This is just two months into the new term. I can't wait to see what 2 months will bring, let alone two years. The republicans have fucked themselves with their extremist agenda and they will pay a heavy price. I suggest you all sit back and watch the downfall of the republican party. They are going to do what they are going to do and it doesn't matter if we worry and send emails and make fun of them. Just let them slowly gather enough rope to hang themselves and when the time comes, open the trap door.
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #93
108. I like your viewpoint...
and I too, can't wait to see what 2 more months bring! Then 4! Then 6! and so on.

Hopefully, we can win back the House in 2006... maybe even the Senate?

Of course there is that problem with elections and voting machines...
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
95. Unrealistic, they need another crisis to re-instate the draft
There WILL be riots in the streets if they try to re-instate the draft in 75 days.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Agreed.
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 02:14 AM by VolcanoJen
The Republicans use popular, media-fueled public issues to pass their radical agendas. Perfect example is the current Schiavo issue, with the congressional Republicans radically abusing their power in a court-based matter. They're doing it to manipulate public opinion, to show their base that, "Yes! We really are about values and God and please do go back to your Wal-Mart job and remind your coworkers of that." They could honestly give a damn about Shiavo or her family. They just know that it's media-fueled and they can control the language. They're incredibly proficient at it, and while I despise their motives, I admire their skills, not to mention the obvious collusion involved.

They'd need a full-blown looming war with Iran/Syria/N Korea/Russia/You Name It to push a draft through. They might just get it, though. Now that the Iraq war has been won, and all. Isn't that what CNN keeps insisting?

Expect an immediate call to arms, in terms of a draft, the moment the anti-Iran rhetoric gets notched up. I don't think they can get it through without a perceived threat.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #96
97. It needs to be a crisis of 9/11 proportions
Especially if the want to draft women, homosexuals, and have no college deferments. Drafting rich kids is what will guarantee that they loose the next election unless they have a VERY good excuse.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #95
99. And who's to say they want create the next crisis?.....
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 03:00 AM by Robeson
...I think thats the point of some of the posts. I agree with you, they'll need another incident, and I think they could create one. Remember the sinking of the Maine?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. I'm not saying that they can't
But I don't think that they would do it within the next 75 days. Nor do I think that they would make it this obvious if they planned to re-activate the draft in 75 days.
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #100
105. Lets hope your right.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #105
151. Me too, considering that I am of age to be drafted
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
98. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
102. Even if there is a draft
the draftees won't be ready to fight or do anything useful for at 6 months to a year. Unless the maladminstration wants to use them as cannon fodder or 'walkers over minefileds' so the trained troops can walk over the 'field safely' or send them in advance to see where the fighters are in house to house combat, or get blown up by the IEDs, etc.
In others words, clear the way for the highly trained fighters.
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Technowitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
107. I'm 42 and female...
...but I almost wish I was eligible, just so I could burn that fucking draft card.

Draft = Slavery
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #107
201. WELL PUT
I wholeheartedly agree. Draft=Slavery. No Fucking Draft For Any Reason!
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Wabbajack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
109. Do you really think anyone is gonna cooperate?
This would turn the young repubs and their parents against *.
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durablend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #109
116. This would turn the young repubs and their parents against *
So? There's enough brainwashed that would willingly comply, and the ones that don't would have no choice. You think * really cares what any of them think?

* to repuke voters: "We got your vote now shut up"
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Wabbajack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #116
195. What are bush and the oil barons interested in?
Making money. Upsetting the applecart of complacency of the American public is the last thing he's do. It would be bad for buissiness. And bad as it is we are NOT in nazi Germany * can't start plucking white kids from their homes and sending them to war it would bring him down.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #109
131. That's why
it ain't gonna happen. Count on it.
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Maine-ah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
115. kick
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KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
119. MSM has reported this and it's true
I did a Google groups seach for "Rove polled congress vote draft" and found this interesting post from last October.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/misc.activism.progressive/browse_thread/thread/d45e9431b8d9e3eb/f53b08c2225c24a9?q=rove+polled+congress+vote+draft#f53b08c2225c24a9

If the link doesn't work, just try doing the search yourself. It mentions the 75 days and June 15th, the New York Times, Family Circle, and the Seattle Post as sourses, with info obtained under FOIC.

Karl Rove polled members of congress back in September of 2002, asking whether they would reinstate the draft for Bush, and they said yes. Like it or not, this is likely to happen.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
127. I hate to say it, but it may take the draft to wake this country up
and throw the bums out, but, hopefully, it won't happen.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #127
130. You know, I used
to play chess a lot when I was younger. While I would take a win anyway that I could get it, it was never as satisfying when the opponent just flat screwed up and I took advantage of it, as it was when I simply outplayed a superior opponent. Of course, extremely dissatisfying was when I thought I had out-played the opponent, and he still won.

What I'm trying to say is that we are really reduced to desperation if the only way we can see to win is if the opposition does something really stupid like re-instate the draft. It ain't gonna happen, and if it did, should we be hoping for that just to regain political power? It sort of makes a mockery of our principles and our integrity, in my opinion. Don't you think so? Sort of like hoping for the economy to tank. Too many people would suffer.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #130
176. Have you even read PNAC?
In my sunday paper, the Raleigh News & Observer, there is a story about democracy in the middle east. Way back at the end of the column, i quote:

"Michael Ledeen, a scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and a leading proponant of the Iraqwar, is likewise skeptical that democracy will prevail.
Ledeen praised Bush's call for freedom throughout the world as "a good start, but it is not good enough to win."
He called on the president to give the leaders of Syria and Iran the same treatment he gave Saddam -- 'regime change'."

That is what they want. They are in control of every branch of government, and have their allies planted in international organizations like the UN and, once approved, the World Bank. They will stop at nothing. They don't care about the cost. And they aren't worried about the next elections, because they own the companies that count the votes.

Nobody wants it to happen just to regain congress, because they will use it to solidify their hold on congress. There will be riots, which will result in massive civil crackdowns. Do you think the Patriot Act was all about catching foreign terrorists?
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #176
182. Very Well Said
It amazes me that they have done all that they have done, passed all of this legislation giving them the tools to do whatever they want, basicaly taken control of everything, yet people STILL think they won't go all the way with it and abuse it to the fullest.

In my opinion, much of this country has been reduced to willful ignorance, blind nationalism/jingoism, and just plain wishful thinking.

Thinking positvely is NOT going to stop these people.

HOPING they won't try to go all the way with it, will NOT stop these people.

Whistling past the graveyard will NOT keep these people from doing whatever they have to do to keep and expand their power.

I'm sorry, this is they way it is, and it isn't what most want to hear.

And that doesn't change their course either.

The TRUE options we have for stopping these people are not very palatable for most.

And they certainly dare not be posted.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #182
194. Absolutely. And for once in my life, I am grateful to the wingnuts
support of the 2nd amendment.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #176
193. there will
not be a draft. You'll see. And, yes, I read it.
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #130
203. Yes.
Progressives who support a terrible evil like the draft, for any reason, (I have heard all the reasons..)absolutely mystify and dismay me. Even if a draft would help the democratic party (an unproven assumption) it is WRONG WRONG WRONG and should not be defended by any progressive or liberal. Since the (aborted) European revolutions of 1848, progressives, and the left in general, have ALWAYS opposed a draft. We should not now change that noble tradition.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #203
205. I think
we're in the minority here, bud.
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Spinoza Donating Member (766 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #205
206. I know
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Mrs_Beastman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
132. If only they could draft Freepers first
So they could go die for there precious freedom of oil
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seventythree Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #132
143. currently grant money is available to expand nursing programs
I thought the money was being made available because we have a nursing shortage and the boomers turn 60 this year -- but maybe there is more to it.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
145. Bring it on. It'll wake up our apathetic nation
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
149. Book that one-way ticket to Spain, Germany, or France
cuz if you're under 35 and unlucky enough to be resident in the US, Britain or Australia right now, you're lot in life will probably consist of being used as cannon fodder in the neocons' imperial wars. (They've already all but sealed off the border to Canada and pressured the Canadians into repatriating anybody who crosses over.) Hope for the best but prepare for the worst-- "contingency plans" sound like an awfully good idea.
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #149
156. Make sure that the country you run to won't send you back
Conditions are different from the Vietnam era. From what I hear, Canada will now extradite draft dodgers.

My guess is that his new draft will go after people with skills (linguists, computer types) who are up to age 40. I don't think the Bush administration will draft cannon fodder yet. They'll wait and let the next administration do that.
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_testify_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
158. All it would take is another terrorist strike
A plethora of executive orders have been passed to allow FEMA, the DoJ and the President to implement martial law. No more elections after that.

This sort of thing has been in the works for a long time, just waiting for the right administration to abuse the shit out of it.


Jeb Bush declared the equvalent in Florida with executive order #20011-261 on September 7, 2001. It was in effect until June 30, 2003.

A trial run, I'm sure. The timing is a bit suspect.

http://sun6.dms.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/orders/2001/september/eo2001-261-09-07-01.html
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
160. Kerry WARNED about this during the campaign.
I don't remember where he was when he spoke about it, but he told Americans that bush would reinstate the draft.

Face it, the neocons ARE going to push the PNAC agenda....they already have followed it to the letter, and they will continue to do so. In fact, Rumsfeld already put out his new paper.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO503A.html

He is going to spend the BIG BUCKS putting even more "privatized" soldiers on the payroll, and add thousands of U.S. troops to the mix.

Kerry told us bush would reinstate the draft, and Scott Ritter and Sy Hersh told us when we'd head for Iran. The neocons are right on schedule.

They own our tax dollars, they control the voting machines, they control ALL branches of government, the media and the courts. What more do we need to know about this?

They'll do as they please, and American citizens (on the whole) have allowed their rights to be taken away.

:kick::kick::kick:
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teakee Donating Member (91 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #160
173. Wonder how many Repukes will offer up their sons and daughters
with the way Rumsfinkle ran the Iraq War? My son's college friends that voted Republican seem to think Bush would NEVER draft them.....just like my stupid ex-husband, father of draft-age boys who voted for Bush for the tax cuts he got. (He has been quiet lately, Bush's idea of a small business was NOT the same as the his--FOOL. :dunce:)
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
161. gulp
:scared: :scared: :scared:
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SnowGoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
165. another skeptical voice
Edited on Sun Mar-20-05 05:19 PM by SnowGoose
for what it's worth - I just don't believe the draft will happen any time in the near future. As for some big attack on the US, that would be bad for Bush.

Everyone, would at some point think, "gee... if we didn't have 150,000 troops in Iraq, we wouldn't need this draft. Sod Iraq. Let's bring the troops home to defend our own soil."

If we really were to have a draft, I think a foreign event would be a more likely scenario than an attack at home. The specific thing I could imagine happening is some event that threatened world oil supplies - say a coup in Saudi Arabia, leaving a fiercely anti-western regime in place, or a devastating attack on some oil tanker port.

In this case, we'd get the Europeans and Asians on board, since their economies are dependent on petroleum just like ours. It would be easy to ram a resolution through the UN, and maybe even muster up some big multinational alliance.

Additionally, we could sustain ourselves for a little while on the strategic petroleum reserve, and Bush would remind everyone how he kept filling that tank up, even at the extremely high recent prices, and boy oh boy, isn't he smart? We wouldn't be able to pull the troops out of Iraq, because it would exacerbate the problem of critical shortages of oil.

Again, my money is on no draft, but if it were to happen, this is my best guess how it might.

edited for $#@% spelling
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
166. President Rove is not that stupid.
He will continue to sabotage the economy for the politically underepresented- no need to get Republican white kids involved in this.
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Psst_Im_Not_Here Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
169. 64 days to go
Until I'm 35. Hubby turned 35 this past St. Patty's Day. Now to protect my boys.
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Boo Boo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #169
192. Didn't I read somewhere that the max
age had been raised to 40? Don't think it really matters, 'cause the military would really interested in drafting kids. This isn't WWII here, I don't think they'll be taking anybody that can walk. The last thing the Army needs is a bunch of 40 year old recruits flopping over dead in boot camp from heart attacks.
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Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #192
196. You are correct.
The maximum age for recruitment in both the Reserves and the National Guard is now 40.
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rockedthevoteinMA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
171. I got this flyer at the protest today, I didn't think it would be happenin
so soon.

The flyer had this website: http://www.noDraftNoWay.org
Don't know if it's true but :scared:
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Darkhawk32 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-20-05 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
172. Draft would be political suicide for the Repukes.
How much would you want to bet me that it would be the "supporters" of this war that would skip out on it more?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #172
186. remember, they own the voting machines
they count the votes
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
184. kick n/t
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
189. This just scares the everyliving everything out of me. n/t.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
190. If they do this...
They will have gone far enough that the house will begin to really crumble.

After every scandal we've seen has melted into the background due to the MSM refusing to cover it...I've become pretty discouraged about anything bringing down this Administration.

But, with the rising gas prices added to this...if they do, it's over.

"It took the SSS 2 years and now they must be nearly ready to issue compliance cards--to be filled out by ALL under the age of 35, man or woman, for a non-combat skills and medical draft."

And at 32, looks like I'll be expected to fill out a card for the non-combat skills draft. :puke:

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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
191. Great source!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
200. kick n/t
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
202. I've got $100 bet on this issue
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=968653#968791

Just waiting to collect...

The people who say there is going to be a draft are wishful thinkers.
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-21-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
204. We can only hope this is true
It would be the best thing to happen to this country since Bush was elected. I'm sorry but this would be great, if they bring back the draft, we will win back the House, Senate and the Presidency in '08.
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