Kennedy"We will not discuss a social security plan unless PVT accT

[gizmo1979]

are off the table.Is this the right approach,or are we playing into their hands?I think it would be better to float a plan so they can't say"our plan is better than no plan".

[marcologico]

1. It's the right approach. It's a phony crisis and there's no need to hurry

on it. Doing nothing would be far better than any GOP plan.

[wryter2000]

2. Good question

However, I don't see it as either/or. We can say, "take private accounts off the table" AND propose our own plan.

[bowens43]

3. It is the right approach.

The American people know that the privatization plan is worse then no plan at all. It does nothing to help SS while taking trillions of dollars away from it.

[unblock]

4. if we float a plan, it gives license to change social security

far better to say "don't touch it"

in fact, even better would be to say "we don't trust republicans with our social security".

[marcologico]

7. Yep. Let's wait until there's a Dem in the WH and raise the freakin' cap.

nt

[Warren Stupidity]

14. the 'cap' rises automatically every year.

SS is running a surplus and will continue to do so until 2018. SS is not broken and does not need to be fixed. Under worst case scenarios, SS *might* have a problem somewhere between 2042-2055. I think we can wait.

If you are worried about the size of the federal deficit, might I suggest rolling back the unsustainable bush tax cuts?

[marcologico]

16. good point! (nt)

[Warren Stupidity]

5. They do not have a plan.

They have made no proposals at all. At best they have floated a trial balloon here and there. Do not buy into the bullshit.

Oh and we do have a plan. Our plan is called Social Security. Our plan is working fine and does not need to be 'fixed'. Their plan is to 'fix' our plan in the same sense that my two male cats are 'fixed'.

[Just Me]

19. Oh, I don't know. Their SOP is to have a plan but keep it well-hidden,...

,...until the last minute so that no one has time to figure out just how destructive or awful it really is.

[flordehinojos]

6. Hail to Kennedy for DEFINING the democrat's plan for SS: NO PVT. ACCOUNTS!

GOD BLESS KENNEDY!...I AM FED UP WITH THE BUSHES. THEIR PHONY CRISES ON ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING. THE TOTAL EMPTINESS THEY CREATE IN THEIR WAKE. IF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IS AS FED UP AS I AM WITH THE BUSHES THERE WILL BE A REVOLUTION IN THIS COUNTRY BEFORE TOO LONG AND HOPEFULLY IT WILL BE AS BLOODLESS AS THE BLOODLESS COUP D'ETAT THE BUSHES PERPETRATED IN THIS COUNTRY ON ELECTIONS 2000 AND ON 9/11/01.

[Orlandodem]

8. Good strategy. The Repugs are trying to paint Dems as

obstructionists. They are going to try to "Daschle" us. We MUST stand firm on piratization but we MUST show the American people that Dems are the party of SS. We are the party that can be trusted to keep SS solvent forever!

[librechik]

9. Mitch McConnell is rebutting this now on MTP--

"What's wrong with talking about all solutions?"

painting Dems as obstructionists once again.

[Warren Stupidity]

11. there is no problem (NT)

[vicman]

10. The Repugs want us to propose a plan now

here's their strategy. To this point, Bush has proposed what amounts to jack shit, nothing. He's even stated he will not propose a plan, but work with congress to develop one. He's running around the country with his "hair on fire" trying to sell a set of ideas, ideas rooted firmly in a pack of lies, so a pack of lies is his selling technique. If the Democrats line up behind a specific plan now, the right-wing monstrosity of a media machine will kick into high gear. The MSM will then obediently change the subject from the obvious lies the president is whoring to an attack on the Dems plans. All we will hear about is how horrible the Dems plan is. Controlling the debate is classic Repug-think.

So far, the more the public hears about Bush's "plan," the less they like it. We are winning this one. We should not give Bush what he wants. We should not allow him to change the subject. Let him keep talking. He's sinking his own boat.

[FormerDittoHead]

12. It's the right plan - here's why

We can't let up: Privatization has N*O*T*H*I*N*G to do with solvency.

Kennedy's plan is to simply address these two things seperately.

Letting them co-mingle these two discrete issues would be letting them have their political cake and eat it too.

The Republicans want to run up the deficit even more, devalue the dollar (and wages) to finance a shift of retirement funds into the coffers of an already overpriced stock market to benefit the rich even MORE and further the cause of their "big goal" - a national sales tax. It's so close! They can *taste* the regressive taxation!

Kennedy's tatic will force them to raise taxes / reduce benefits / raise retirement age etc without using this privatization scheme as a smokescreen.

[bettyellen]

13. a good approach - we cannot play into their bullshit that it's broken....

that just opens the door, and reinforces their arguement.
the fact is THEY have been fucking with SS, and THEY are trying to break it. They want an to create a smokescreen while THEY have been spending the people's emergency/ retirement fund instead of being fiscally responsible.

people need to be reminded what SS is for, who it helps keep out of poverty, and not be confused into thinking it' should or will be anything like another personal saving program.
A lot of people still think that they will get back what they put in, with interest. The language * uses encourages this misconception. That needs to be cleared up as well, as i think a lot of support for SS reform comes from personal greed. people want to be able to keep/ get back more of their paychecks, and i don't believe for a minute that's going to happen.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. you've got it right

When I told my co-worker about the fact they might privatize SS when it was first mentioned last year, he was all excited. "You mean they'll let me keep my money to do what I want with it?" When I told him no, he was no longer interested.

[bettyellen]

21. exactly "NO, you don't get "YOUR MONEY" back w/ privatized accts!!" needs

to be stressed over and over again. Because that's what's most appealing to people. And they are being hoodwinked.

[Frances]

15. Kennedy compromised with Bush

on No Child Left Behind and learned his lesson.

AARP compromised with Bush on Medicare drugs, but that counted for nothing when AARP opposed Bush on Social Security. Bush's supporters ran the now-famous ad showing a soldier with an X over him and a gay couple kissing with a checkmark over their photo. The ad accused the AARP of being anti-our soliders and pro-gay marriage.

Max Cleland, the Vietnam War Hero, the Georgia senator who voted against one of Bush's bills saw the Repubs run an ad showing him morphing into Osama.

No, the Repubs want this country to be a one-party country. As another poster put it, they want all the marbles.

It's like the old story about the snake who lied when he promised not to bite a person who saved him. The snake says, "You knew what I was when you picked me up."

[unblock]

20. i know that story with a scorpion, not a snake.

but point well taken.

good point on the one-party state thing, too.

i've overheard, in a restaurant in NEW JERSEY of all places, freepers complaining about why we even have to HAVE two parties at all, the republican party is america's party, why can't we all just be republicans?

:eyes:

[Frances]

22. I have heard the scorpion version too

In the scorpion version I heard the scorpion stings and kills a frog who is saving him. I think I read the snake version in an Ann Landers column. The point of the story made a big impression on me as I tend to be too naive.

[unblock]

24. too naive,as in, you believe ann landers' that her's is the right version?

</kidding>

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

18. NO PLAN NO DEAL! NO CRISIS! n/t

[kentuck]

23. And what have the Repubs taken off the table??

No tax increases?

[peacetalksforall]

25. Absolutely not - no plan. Meeting with Dems about an idea they have

to steal from us and make some of them richer is no plan. It is also no plan because they don't have a plan. They don't know how to do it. They want to suck the brains of the Dems, trapping them into making it look like there is something there to discuss, then they will turn on the Dems and steal anything they say that they can use and throw the carcasses over the cliff of politics.

Please consider that it is a trap because it is.

[SharonAnn]

26. Our Plan is Social Security. We don't need a different plan.

[joanski01]

27. The Democrats' plan to keep Social

Security solvent is to NOT make the tax cuts permanent. That would do it.