Are anit-woman threads a ploy to divide and conquer?

[Greybnk48]

It seems to me there is a lot of talk going on about compromising on women's reproductive health and rights. This is a human rights issue as is support of our gay and lesbian community. There are many many people who are "pro-choice", if you'll forgive the political label of this issue, who themselves would never seek out an abortion. But the issue is not whether YOU would ever have an abortion. The question is whether you think that Goverment representatives should be able to regulate your reproduction status.

The people who say they are po-life Dems puzzle me since for 35 years I have viewed this party as the party of support for the rights of individuals to live as they choose. How can someone believe this and want to force their moral beliefs on someone else?

[dsc]

1. We are not the party that supports the rights of individuals to live as

they choose. We are the party that stands up for the little guy or woman. We advocate interfering in the rights of individuals to live as they choose all the time. We don't let people choose to work at lower than minimum wage, or in unsafe enviroments. We don't advocate letting business owners pollute the air. We don't advocate letting people own Uzis. All of those, and a myriad of other positions we take interfere with the rights of individuals to live as they choose.

[Greybnk48]

3. O.K. change the frame

but any paternalistic laws must have strong justification before one's rights may be infringed on. The argument against abortion is based on religious moral beliefs not medicine.

[dsc]

4. and pro life Democrats

believe that the potential life of the fetus is a strong reason to intervene. You may not agree but it does fit in with what the Democratic party actually is.

[Greybnk48]

5. the potential life argument is bogus

the fetus is a potential person so it should be granted the rights of a real person. Well, we're all potentially dead but we don't treat each other that way--do we? As a matter of fact when conception occurs, only about 25-30% of fertilized eggs come to fruition.

So fertilized eggs have only a 25-30% potential to be a real person whereas we are 100% potentially dead. Shall I treat you as a cadaver?

[dsc]

7. You asked how someone could hold the view

and I gave you an answer. You and I disagree on what is and isn't life. But the fact is that I am no less a Democrat than you are.

[Greybnk48]

9. But do you support my reproductive rights?

Or do you support the view that it is ok to legislate religious morality?

[dsc]

11. I think that at viability

the fetus wins the fight for rights. I don't even like first trimester abortions but at around 5 months I say no way unless the life or health of the mother are in danger.

[Greybnk48]

13. then we don't disagree by much

why are we calling ourselves by different labels?

[dsc]

15. probably because push come to shove

I would lean in favor of banning first trimester abortions while you wouldn't. I would be willing to accept a compromise that permitted them but that wouldn't be my first position in all likely hood.

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. You Got It!

"There are many many people who are "pro-choice", if you'll forgive the political label of this issue, who themselves would never seek out an abortion. But the issue is not whether YOU would ever have an abortion. The question is whether you think that Goverment representatives should be able to regulate your reproduction status."

EXACTLY! This is something the CONservatives apparently failed to understand.

[bettyellen]

6. i think there are a few around there that are pro choice and pro life..but

..... i think there are more who are hoping these issues are on the table all of a sudden. emboldened by reports of moral issues being important these days?
i'm with you basic human rights issues don't go back to the table. they are core to being a dem.
i couldn't believe the thread regarding being against late term abortion when the poster didn't even understand the legislation. i don't think a lot of men realized how scary it was to see a fellow DUer just guess he didn't support it and try and be willing and supportive of giving away vital rights for women.he didn't know they were vital. that was disheartening.
what emboldened him to shoot off his mouth like that without thinking why would my fellow dems support this? i think there's just something in the air. i'm hoping it passes soon.

[Greybnk48]

10. thank you

these people are scaring me today. the idea that we would support anyone who is a dem even if they abandoned our core human rights values is frightening.

[Bridget Burke]

8. Yes.

Some long-standing members have pro-life convictions.

But certain new members know what hot-button issues to use for divisive & distracting threads.

[Enquiringkitty]

12. People choose to do many things which are harmful and dangerous

People choose to smoke, drink and drive, do drugs, drive fast or while talking on the cell, leave a child or the disabled at home alone while running to the store, leave their children in the hands of people who have not had a background search while they go to work, run into burning buildings (firemen), roam around town, armed and confront criminals (police), work very closely with dangerous and toxic chemical and even putting in a back yard pool. All of these things have consequences that must be faced when and if the time comes. Some we make hero's out and some we make demon out of but all of these were personal choices; no one has ever been forced to do these things. We make a personal choice to say something nasty to a cashier, a child, or a co-worker. If the statement is in defense of someone else, does that make you a hero or if the statement is not, does that make you a demon? NO, it simply makes the statement nasty. People who have abortions have to deal with the emotional consequences and people who don't have to deal with the real responsibility of raising a child. There have been failures on both side. An abortion recipient suffering such depression that suicide seems to be the only way out and a parent abusing or even killing their child due to stress and lack of interest. Everyone must deal with personal choices everyday, some we regret and some we don't but in the end, we are usually our harshest judges and these are the things we learn from.

Pretty long rant huh? Just tell me to shut-up when I get this way, huh?

[Greybnk48]

14. I enjoyed your rant--thanks