A disturbing editorial about Kerry.....by Thomas Sowell

[Catchawave]

...or another example of Bush Media Team Payola?

This was published in the 2/23 Norfolk Virginian-Pilot, and I found a "chum bait" copy on:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345874/posts

If the claim in this opEd is NOT true, why isn't Kerry suing the pants off Sowell and the Hoover Institution at Stanford U?

The claim is that the Carter Admin "fixed" Kerry's military record and upgraded it to an Honorable Discharge? :crazy: or not?

[TayTay]

1. Right! A smear is still a smear

Then how come Nixon and his thugs never found this stuff when they moved heaven and earth in 1971 to defame Kerry? You mean to tell me, with the resources of the entire federal government (FBI, phone taps, etc.) they somehow missed this?

I don't friggin' think so. This is a smear and it shouldb be addressed. However, if it was just published on 2/23, then give the Sen some time to respond. (Afte all, they are on a Congressional break this week.)

[Stand and Fight]

8. Thanks...

But why should he stoop to their level? The issue should have been addressed, but I don't think that months after it occurred that the issue should be confronted. The time to confront the Swift Boat Turd-Fucks was in August of 2004. Politics are dirty -- take the election of 1800 between Thomas Jefferson, Aaron Burr and John Adams. Jefferson was accused -- and we now know it to be true -- of having slept with his slave, Sally Hemings, but he NEVER acknowledged it publicly. Nonetheless, he was still elected -- by a narrow margin -- and recovered from the vicious rumors. In that day in age, having slept with a slave was worst than these baseless accusations against John Kerry... I just don't see why Kerry should stoop to their level this late in the game so long after the fact.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. Exactly

Only people who would believe this nonsense is people who are:
A) brainwashed
B) Not old enough to know about Kerry/Nixon

Somebody should release the audio tapes to the public to show how O'Neil really is a pawn of Nixon's and these other SBV's are fakes too. Nixon even compared Kerry to Kennedy in the tapes! Only reason I know is from my own research and watching "Going Upriver" and they play the audio tapes.

[Catchawave]

16. Kerry should respond.....

...as well as Carter. It's libel, pure and simple.

BTW, I used the freep site here, but the article is all over via a Google search. My apologies for using a poor link example :(

[Stand and Fight]

2. Who the hell cares?

Who the hell cares what those no-talent, no-brain, idiotic ass-clowns over at Free Republic posts? Why the heck are you even bothering to read that nonsense? Just because someone does not address an allegation, does not mean that said allegation is even based on fact. I have personally been confronted with allegations so baseless, so ridiculous, that I have chose NOT to acknowledge them. Rather than reading that nonsense over at Free Republic and ceding that any of their noxious notions are true... Nevermind, just don't rot your brain by reading that crap.

[Catchawave]

21. Here's the Google results....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Thomas+Sowell+tainted+media&btnG=Google+Search


I used Thomas Sowell Tainted Media in my search.

Why now?

[unblock]

3. that claim was made during the campaign

no link, but i would think it was the swift boat liars' doing.

[Name removed]

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[Padraig18]

19. Why should he?

:shrug:

[rodeodance]

55. yes, I recall that accusation during the campaign-but not the details

[blm]

4. Lie was debunked last year. Kerry ran for office in 72, and Nixon was

INVOLVED in Kerry's race BIGTIME. You think Nixon wouldn't have USED a dishonorable discharge AGAINST Kerry back then?

Shit, they had to make stuff up to pin on him because Kerry's record was so clean, even with the FBI tailing him 24/7.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Catchawave]

11. This is what's disturbing....he has never signed the 180 ?

I remember him saying he did during the campaign, and also remember him saying "he will" to Russert.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. What all

would the 180 do? Is that the thing that releases everything? I remember reading the navy "okay'd" everything.

[Charon]

64. Navy Ok

I believe what the Navy Department okayed was the validity of the medals awarded to Senator Kerry for his Viet Nam service.

[Name removed]

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[scbluevoter]

44. Uh, neither has. . .

the dude in the Oval Office. His response has always been, I've released everything. Now how many times did something else get "found" to be released. Kerry said he'd sign if Bush would.

[LittleClarkie]

50. Why do the freepers always say that Bush has

when he hasn't. Where did they get the idea that Bush had signed the damn thing.

I say, why should Kerry do it any sooner than he's ready to (he wants to see the papers first, he said to Russert.) Hell, if I knew a bunch of freepers where going to freak out over every little typo on my military records, I'd wanna see them first too.

I was coasting through Freeperville yesterday, and found what they call a "vanity" post that sounds suspiciously like this one. It was all idle speculation, I thought, but this person seems to have gone nuts with the thing and taken it for gospel. It's all conjecture, near as I can tell. No proof. None at all.

Even the bit about Kerry going over to the peace talks, I thought that was allowed at the time. Many people were going in and out of the Paris Peace talks I'd heard. I didn't think Kerry did anything that was so terribly abnormal, certainly not a dishonorable dischargeable offense.

Bless his heart, it sounds like when I hear the stories about it, that all Kerry wanted to do was get assurances from the Vietnamese that if he could get the US to set a withdrawl date, that they'd let the POWs go. He was concerned with an early release of the POWs, that's all. What's so bad about that?

If Kerry was so damn heinous, why would McCain have professed to be his friend (outside of election years, that is. McCain is an asshat during election years, apparently). They always gloss over that. Oh, that's right. McCain's the Manchurian Candidate, isn't he.

Kerry must be bugging the shit out of these people if they're still, STILL trying to smear him. Perhaps it is a badge of honor that these people are still at it.

[Leilani]

54. self-delete

[blondeatlast]

45. News Flash of the future: Kerry re-elected in 2006 Senate race, easily.

I'd love to see the proof. Since you raised the allegation (even if you didn't make it), I feel the burden is on you.

The Russert piece would be good enough for me. I saw that show, and I remember him talking about it, but I don't think he said that exactly.

Besides, he got the second most votes in election history; who really cares besides the opposition?


So, whattup?

[LittleClarkie]

51. 2008. He doesn't come up again until 2008

At which point, he's got a choice to make.

[blondeatlast]

53. Oops, it's the hair! But he still will win the Senate easily. nt

[DemDogs]

46. He hasn't signed it.

He danced on the issue on MTP. I don't care if he does or not. But the truth is he has not signed it, has not turned over all his military records.
This might have ended a long time ago, if he had.

[rodeodance]

56. but he also said that more records keep coming from the Pentagon

that he and staff have to go over first before they are released

[blm]

14. Kerry had ALL his records open to reporters for one week. Why didn't they

find it during that time? It's not like they weren't trying.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Sporadicus]

23. Nice Avatar, 'Judge'!

Maybe you can get reinstated on 'appeal'...naaaah!

[Padraig18]

31. The judge has left the building. n/t

[papau]

24. I believe the 180 is signed now - have any reporters requested and

been denied something in the last few weeks?

[LittleClarkie]

58. What makes you say that

What have you heard? G'head, you can say. We won't tell. Will we, y'all?

[DemDogs]

47. Neither side EVER opened all their records

Even Kerry's people haven't seen all his records.

[blm]

48. ALL of Kerry's records were open to scrutiny except his medical records.

His entire Naval record, however, WAS available.

One part of the record that will NEVER be seen are his trips into Cambodia, ferrying CIA operatives. Kerry and the Navy have no control over those records.

[LittleClarkie]

52. It was almost laughable when folks said "Prove you were in Cambodia"

Oh sure, let me pull those secret files out of my butt. Just a second...

[Name removed]

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[quinnox]

6. Its only disturbing if you believe it

I put this into the same category as the Swift Boat clowns.

Kerry served in Vietnam and won medals, now its understandable that some navy guys who happened to be right wingers would be jealous of his success and do anything they could to slime Kerry.

I bet there are a million negative outlandish wild articles about Kerry at Newsmax or written by other right wingers, and I don't think they are worth the paper they are printed on.

[wishlist]

7. I heard that Nixon Admin hated Kerry so much they held up his discharge

I have heard several stories about this allegation (that came out right before the election coordinated with the Swifties lies). One story is that he was in the Naval Reserves for several years after active duty and so didn't get his final discharge until Carter was Pres. Other story is that he didn't get final discharge earlier because Nixon Admin held it up due to their longstanding grudge against Kerry over his antiwar activism.

[Blue Wally]

43. Lets think about it

When Kerry left active duty after Vietnam, he would have received discharge papars, just as Bush did when he left pilot training. When you leave the reserves, you just get transfer orders to the inactive reserve. Kerry's discharge papers should have come from thr Nixon administration. It must have been honorable, or they would have revoked his commission. If Kerry was not active in the reserves, he would have gone to the standby reserve till the Carter admin, theyn he would have been dropped as overage in grade, since you can't get promoted in the standby reserves. It would have just been an administrative matter. Why everybody's fervor about no Bush discharge from the guard was such a red herring. You dont get a discharge, you are just dropped.

[Toots]

66. "You don't get a discharge, you are just dropped"

ummm I received a Discharge (Honorable) after my entire time was up. Years after I had left the service. Why would I receive an official discharge and nobody else? :shrug:

[Blue Wally]

67. DD214

DD Form 214 is a DoD wide document. The title of the form is "Report of Separation From Active Duty" (reading mine as I type). The form is used to record rhw number of year, month, and days of active duty for a given active duty stretch. I forget how long the period is for which you must recieve a DD214 (after 30, 90, or 180 days.

Each time you serve a period of active duty of tghe required length, you recive a DD 214. Theoretically, a reservist would recieve one for his first active duty tour for training, one for GW I, and another one (or more) for GWII. A person who is only on active duty once would have a single DD214.

You do not recieve a DD214 transferring status form active reserve to standby reserve to inactive reserve to retire reserve. You only recieve orders and letters. Read the form. There is no place on there for any reserve data. It is strictly a report of active duty time, time overseas, awards received duirng the current active duty stint, and "character of service" (honorable or otherwise).

You may be confused with the "certificate" which is a fancy awards document to hang on your wall. The thing that counts for VA benefits, etc is the DD214.

[Toots]

70. Yes I received my DD 214 when I was released from active duty

But I still had two years of inactive reserve to fulfill. When that was over I received in the mail (out of the blue )an Honorable Discharge with both letter and ceretificate to frame or whatever. The DD 214 was not an Honorable Discharge though.

[punpirate]

9. Carter...

... was the one that provided amnesty for all who went to Canada. I think this is probably an attempt to link Kerry with that action, which was very unpopular with the conservatives.

Had Kerry's record been in question before the Carter administration, it seems likely that someone would have found out about it at the time he was testifying before Congress in 1971, in an attempt to discredit him and his testimony. Remember that John O'Neill was hired by the Nixon White House to do just that--discredit Kerry--and judging by O'Neill's latest attempts to smear Kerry, if he'd had an inkling of that then, he certainly would have used it.

This sounds much like an attempt to discredit both Kerry and Carter (the latter having been critical of Bush's war in Iraq).

[BOSSHOG]

15. Naval Reserve Officers are not discharged

until their commitment to the government is completed. They may serve on active duty, inactive duty or in the Individual Ready Reserve (no drilling involved) with any combination of the three methods of service mentioned (usually with a minimum of active duty time required.) But, they are under commitment for a particular number of years. After that period of time is up, the member is then discharged from the service. Therefore, a Naval Reserve Officer would not necessarily be discharged after his active duty tour ended unless he fulfilled the entire time of commitment.

As for sowell, I believe he should invest $1,200 in gannon and unwind for the weekend. They'd make a great pair.

[papau]

25. That was the reason given years ago for the late 70's discharge

Seems still valid.

I love how the RW Nuts can assert - and our media picks up on the assertion and says prove yourself pure.

But only for Dems to worry about - if GOPer has a problem, the real problem is the unfair questions being asked of the poor GOPer.

[underpants]

26. Bang! great point-also Sowell is LYING-W never signed form 180

Great point BOSS HOG

The RW noise machine for so long never mentioned whether W signed form 180 and as Media Matters points out appear to have tasked Hannity with going ahead and making the jump to say that W did. There is no evidence that he did. Sowell is just firing up the BIG LIE.



http://mediamatters.org/items/200409100001


Washinton TIMES article from Media Matters link



http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040818-121345-3874r.htm

At the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan said he couldn't say specifically whether Mr. Bush signed Standard Form 180, but the president did request and release his own military records in February.
"I don't believe he signed any form, but he did authorize making his military records available publicly," Mr. McClellan said. "We have released all the records, and reporters were allowed to look at his medical records as well."

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Yes

We need to get Bush to release everything. No block outs over names or ANYTHING. He needs to come clean. But he won't of course and the brainwashed won't believe it. :eyes: The thing that McClelann didn't say was they blob things out. I believe Greg Palast talks about this in his movie "Bush Family Fortunes."

[underpants]

32. The horrible irony here is that

While W tried to slowly not actually release his files Kerry did and they (as well as US Navy records) completely debunkt he Swifties charges. The military keeps records like no one else. W's records are out there but it seems that no one cares.

For some reason Sowell got the memo to restart this.

The most laugable part of this editorial is that Sowell thinks that the military records issue of both candidates is PROOF of liberal bias which is comically assinine.

[Catchawave]

34. Exactly.....

what you said, "he got the memo to restart this".

We must find out more about Sowell. Off to search now......:mad:

[izzybeans]

39. Sowell's a fascist whore n/t

[Catchawave]

40. I agree...."Sowell's a facicist whore"

...but facist whores lost the election for us. Yes? No?

Are they sharpening their claws for the 2006 term elections? We have to scratch back ! Sowell's article LIES, and he's going to get away with it?

Methinks media is our problem, not election fraud.

[izzybeans]

49. You should read his book on Affirmative Action.

This guy tries to hide behind the professional title social scientist to push his ideology.

He has always been a shill. His book is widely cited amongst the anti-affirmative action (ironically) john birchy people as evidence of see "african-americans don't like reverse racism either". There are words for people like him far worse than what I just used and I won't go there.

[underpants]

27. ATTENTION!----BUSH NEVER SIGNED FORM 180

Great point BOSS HOG

The RW noise machine for so long never mentioned whether W signed form 180 and as Media Matters points out appear to have tasked Hannity with going ahead and making the jump to say that W did. There is no evidence that he did. Sowell is just firing up the BIG LIE.



http://mediamatters.org/items/200409100001


Washinton TIMES article from Media Matters link



http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040818-121345-3874r.htm

At the White House, press secretary Scott McClellan said he couldn't say specifically whether Mr. Bush signed Standard Form 180, but the president did request and release his own military records in February.
"I don't believe he signed any form, but he did authorize making his military records available publicly," Mr. McClellan said. "We have released all the records, and reporters were allowed to look at his medical records as well."

[Catchawave]

28. More research......

http://www.independent-media.tv/itemprint.cfm?fmedia_id=7073&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported

From the Timeline:

"After being released from active duty in the Navy, Kerry remained in the Naval Reserve until he is honorably discharged in Feb. 1978."

We may need to follow the money on Thomas Sowell ?

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

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[Catchawave]

33. Excuse Me? I don't understand.....

....this article was published in the Norfolk Virginian-Pilot (last I checked an affliate of the MSM) yesterday, my concern is about the author of this hateful article and why it's published NOW?

My ploy is obvious? How do we 'out' the Bushbot media whores if we can't discuss them here?

[Vinnie From Indy]

35. LOL You guys are too much!

If the claim in this opEd is NOT true, why isn't Kerry suing the pants off Sowell and the Hoover Institution at Stanford U?


You are clearly posting this as a slam on Kerry. Your words above make that abundantly obvious. Your not even good at it.

[Catchawave]

36. I get it.....

...I'm not allowed to be a tad bit worried that this MSM sh*t continues in the wake of Jim/Jeff media whoring?

Did you read the article?

[cmd]

37. Thank you, Thomas Sowell

Now the ball is in our court. We get to hammer Bush's hide to the wall. Can you say AWOL? These jackass's don't know when they are well off.

[Catchawave]

42. Exactly.....

...the conservative perps are already preparing for 2006, and my fear is that we're just going to roll over and let them scratch our bellies.

I sent this thread to Countdown (Keith Olbermann)....maybe they can prepare a snarky comment or two.

Here's Sowell's homepage via the TownHall aholes:


http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20050222.shtml

[LSK]

38. does it matter??

Kerry served, people on HIS BOAT confirm his stories, he learned vietnam was wrong and acted. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.

[Catchawave]

41. It matters to me that the icky, stinky conservative media types

are still getting away with what Jon Stewart clobbered Crossfire with in that the icky, stinky media is hurting us more than helping us ?

Sorry for the rant, but none of your statements were ever accepted by the voters in 2004 :(

[rodeodance]

57. i suspose he just get tired of responding these accusations.

[LTRS]

59. Crazy claim, not to mention wrong, and ill informed

The chickenhawks don't know jack about the military. Kerry stayed in the reserves for the years in between his active duty discharge and his final discharge in '72. You're not offically discharged until you finish up your reserve time (as a lot of our "retired" soldiers having been finding out since the Iraq war for nothing was started)-- which was in 1972 for Kerry.

Amazing how dumb chickenhawks are about military stuff, eh? Well... not really, when you think about it. Morans! :)

[Garbo 2004]

60. Kerry was discharged in '78. Honorable discharge certificate, 1978.

Kerry was a commissioned officer in the Naval Reserve, which is why he did not receive a discharge in 1970 after his active duty was completed or in 1972 when he was transferred from the inactive Ready Reserve to the inactive Standby Reserve. Commissioned reserve officers are not automatically discharged when their obligated service time has been served. Apparently he was discharged, honorably, as a result of an administrative culling of the the Standby inactive list in 1978. Presumably he could have requested a discharge earlier but apparently didn't.

And out of this these folks have woven a speculative fantasy, evidently not bothering to do the research or correctly understand what they found. I've even seen some folks "authoritatively" assert that Kerry wasn't discharged until 2001! (I guess they thought his buddy GW just decided to do him a favor and discharge him? :crazy: )

Wonder why this crap is being resurrected again.

[zulchzulu]

61. Another pathetic attempt by the war sissies to attack a patriot

I'm sure Kerry is about to sue the pants off these ilk WHILE doing an excellent job as Senator.

These guys deserve to be shot as traitors to the military.

[ClassWarrior]

62. BINGO! The cowards still feel guilty...

...for bailing on VietNam like a bunch of useless hippies.

NGU.

[Padraig18]

63. It's VERY difficult for 'public persons' to sue and win for libel.

John Kerry is a 'public person', and the law regarding libel has an incredibly high threshold/burden of proof for such people.

[TayTay]

68. No fair, you're using sound logic

in making this argument. Facts are just too stubborn things to be trusted in an argument.

[NVMojo]

65. the repugs only respect rich, lilly whitearse cowards who have to

make decisions with Oz yapping in their earplugs.

[Jack Rabbit]

69. It is undoubtably a false claim

Being 53 years old, I remember when Kerry first came on the scene and how badly Nixon and his gang wanted to discredit him. Chuck Colson, after all, it the man who is largely responsible for creating John O'Neill, the liar behind the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

If Kerry had received a less than honorable discharge, they would have made something of it then, not over thirty years later. The story makes no sense.

[marcologico]

71. Oh joy, the Freeper Koolaid stand is open early this season.

Don't hurry down though as I expect they'll be giving it away for free for the next 4 years.