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independentchristian Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 10:39 AM
Original message
Bush and Hitler
Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 10:40 AM by independentchristian
Does anyone know where I can find a link with some information on Adolf Hitler standing in front of the burning building or whatever it was and declaring that he and Germany would get the people who did that to them, ala Bush standing at the wreckage of the World Trade Center during the same?

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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Try googling
Reichstag fire. That's the burning building in question, and I have no idea if there's a photo of Hitler standing in front of it, I don't know if he pledged anything about getting the people who did it, but that's where to start.
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Prescott B & Herbert W financed Bush. The docs or link was posted here
some time back. I don't know how to do a check of the archieves. But they got their hands slapped and the government did nail them. I believe it was a light-weight fine. Either the docs or a link were posted at DU. It may have been a year ago or more. Also, read "The Unauthorized Biography of George H. W. Bush."
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. I think mopaul did a graphic like that...
...try PMing him.
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. You're streching a bit, really.....
Do you think any US President at any time in history would not have done the same thing? But, here's a link with some Hitler history. Doubt you'll find what you were looking for.

http://www.remember.org/guide/Facts.root.hitler.html
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. No stretching going on there. I have seen enough evidence to suggest
Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 11:14 AM by bush_is_wacko
the terrorist had LOTS of inside information and it is not a coincidence that NORAD was set to do a "practice scenario" with the theme of a pilot "accidentally" flying a plane into a building. In fact, NORAD thought the initial reports were part of the practice scenario!

Have you googled that information?

Edited for typo
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I don't buy in to the conspiract theories at all....
...al_Qaeda made it clear in 1993 that they wanted to attack the US on its own soil. They just hadn't developed the right plan. They finally did, and they didn't develop the plan in less than 8 months. If you look at the timing, it works out. They will strike us here shortly after a government transition when things are bound to be the most messed up. February 2003....President Clinton had been in office a month after 12 years of the same leadership. Septemebr, 2001. BUsh had been in for 8 months after 8 years of the same leadership. While certainlly it's hard to define a trend after only two occurences, it seems likely. We'll see. I hope to God we never have to face an attack here again, but I think that's unlikely.

Now, I do leave room for the possibility that I am wrong, however, I don't think any conspiracy involved the President. Maybe the CIA, DOD, or other departments of the government. That's just my opinion.

Either way, I think the comparison of Bush to Hitler is terrible. In my opinion, it is better to go after Bush by addressing his specific actions. By comparing his actions to those of Hitler, the message you spread is skewed, not bolstered. You just give our critics more ammunition to attack us by making such comparissons.

But keep up the fight. We're all on the same team.
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Heyo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Great post.
Probably won't make you any friends around here, though..

Anyway, just look up project "bokinka" if you haven't already. That should help straigten out some of the 'spiracy theorists.

Heyo
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Don't mind that man behind the curtain!
The comparisons are staggering!!!! Not comparing Hitler & Bush is akin to putting one's head in the sand. It seems we added another comparison just this week in regard to the Jimmy Jeff "bulldog" Gannon Guckert MellenCougar Scandal. Karl Rove is looking more and more like Ernst Roehm everyday.
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Let's stop the BS.....
Hitler was a monster who specifically wanted to kill people because of their religious beliefs, or hair color, or eye color. You guys, please. There is nothing gained by the Hitler comparisson! NOTHING! You can present whatever points you want to, but comparing Bush to Hitler won't make them any more valid. It will only make them seem like they come from someone who does not know the goals of Hitler and the gigantic atrocities he committed. Millions of Jews were killed because of him. MILLIONS. And why? Because they were Jewish. No other reason.

Attack Bush because of Bush.

Again, just my opinion. I still got nothin' but love for ya. Even family members disagree from time to time. Much love to anyone going after Bush.

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Neo-cons are not up to millions, yet, but how many innocent people have
died in the middle east, because of *'s actions there? 100,000? nobody knows for sure because of the veil of secrecy. Now we're threatening Iran, Syria . Why do you think there is so much instability in the middle east? If you don't know, I would like to suggest a brief history of American Foreign Policy. Guess who armed these guys? Why are we in the middle east and not Darfur fighting evil? O I L ! Who is profiteering from this war?

* Proudly marching toward WWIII-Remember there were NO WMDs. Our intelligence was not bad, it was their intentions that stunk! They caused the proliferation of terrorism!
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Your post misses my point entirely...
....the point is you don't have to comapre someone to Hitler for them to be bad. That's the point.


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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I'm looking for a recent Thomm Hartman article for you, to
make my point, but until then, you might want to watch this:
http://www.thebattleforamerica.com/
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Some thoughts
You can present whatever points you want to, but comparing Bush to Hitler won't make them any more valid.

Spoken like a true right winger (not that you are)! How would you know that every conceivable comparison isn't valid? It seems to me that there are dozens of valid comparisons. I heard Hitler liked pretzels!
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Most comparisons are based on anecdotal stuff...
Sorry. In my opinion there is just no comparison between Hitler and Bush. None, whatsoever. That's not a defense of Bush. I am just not willing to be so insensitive to the people who fought in WW2 to free Europe from his brutality, and the people who died because of his brutality. Millions and millions died. It's not even close.

But fine. Make the comparison. Just know that if Bush were as bad as Hitler, the world would be responding differently. (Unless you think other world leaders like Putin, Schroeder and Chirac couldn't mount a counter-offensive) And, well, if they're willing to let a Hitler like guy control the world, then they are complete cowards and morons.

By the way....do you think you would still be around if Bush were like Hitler? You think this web-site would be up? It's a lame comparison. It always has been. It always will be.

ATTACK BUSH BECAUSE OF HIS ACTIONS! THAT IS ENOUGH! IT'S SO SIMPLE.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I still think you are missing the point about the comparisons
Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 03:18 PM by Vinnie From Indy
Firstly, you have to take into account that Hitler's rise to power and ultimate demise took place over more than a decade. Their was an early, middle and late period of Hitler. The comparisons being made between Hitler and Bush concern the early and middle periods. ShrubCo. hasn't yet embarked on a visible path of extermination within our borders and the future has yet to be written.

The reason that making these comparisons is important, and they are there, is that many Americans don't want to find out what a late period ShrubCo. world might be like without at least speaking out about the dangers of unchecked power. Unfortunately for the Germans and the world, they had no one to compare Hitler to before he set off in earnest on his genocidal nightmare.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Right on, Vinnie
A dictator doesn't need concentration camps to be a dangerous fascist. People should check out this great essay on the 14 characteristics of fascism if they cannot fathom the Bush/Hitler connection. (link is below).

I'm posting just a few of the characteristics. They sound very familiar. We don't have concentration camps in the US (yet). For now they're in Cuba and Iraq, and some outsourced torture camps in Syria and Egypt. But if you read some of the violent rants on RW websites, I would not be surprised if "treasonous" people like me, who question the war and the corruption of this government, get rounded up in the middle of the night and "disappear."

In a fascist take-over, one of the advantages of the fascist regime is that people keep believing "oh, that would never happen here." I just saw "Hotel Rwanda" last night. There were huge, flashing danger signs all around Paul, the main character, but he just belittled people who took the signs seriously. Read a book called "The Oebermanns"- it was exactly the same in Germany as the Nazis started to rise in power.

No, it could never happen here! Bush like Hitler? Think about it, naysayers.

**************************************

http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

<snip>

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

<snip>

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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sorry but the thugs are on the FASCIST team, I'm not! nt
Please read the 14 characteristics of fascism. We had a fraudulent election which is the reason * is in power. I am NOT on his team. I will defend the constitution but not those intent on destroying it.
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GoCubsGo05 Donating Member (93 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. By team I meant, us here, not the Bush team...
...by the way, am I not supposed to refer to him by name here? Sorry- new to the site-not familiar with the unwritten rules.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. welcome to DU Cubbie Fan! Sorry for the mis read! Many of us
just a * or (lower case) bu$h . Not mandatory!
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. I posted my response
before I read yours. Looks like we're on the same track!
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. Try reading "The rise and fall of the third Reich"
by W. L. Shirer

If you are really interested but be warned, the parallels between the third Reich and the forth Reich of today will really make you paranoid. They really are out to get us!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SoCalifer Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ahhhh
Edited on Sat Feb-19-05 12:06 PM by SoCalifer


I do believe that I have video of that speech.. I'll look for it and make a shore excerpt, and post it here for you.

But it will take a little while since I have a LOT of video.. So just check back sometime later today or tomorrow..




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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-19-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
24. kick
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