Now that Dean gets the DNC seat, what to do about the DLC?

[Cascadian]

Also, what to do about the "Mushy middle, play it safe" DINOs that permiate the leadership of the Democratic Party?

I was a little bothered with the comments made by Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) that Dean should not get invloved in Democratic policy issues. I also am equally bothered that Dean had to make a promise to Nancy Pelosi (D-Ca.) the same thing. Howard Dean won because the people wanted a change in direction of the Democratic Party. This also includes policy as well as bringing red state people back into the party. Dean knows that the Democrats have been killing themselves with this Republican Lite DLC strategy. The DLC are of the past. It is time to shove them aside and kick them to the curb. With Bush's approval ratings sliding like an avalanche, the job should be a little easier.


John

[janx]

1. Maybe a better question might be:

What will the DLC leaders do with themselves? ;-)

[DaveinMD]

2. how about

stopping to try to divide the party. Dean will work with all in the party.

[Placebo]

3. It's not Dean's job to set policy.

Period. End of story.

[Guaranteed]

7. Oh, okay. I had this conversation last night.

Who's job IS it to set policy? Reid's? Pelosi's? What makes THEM so special?

THEY didn't get 400 votes from the DNC members, now did they?

[Placebo]

8. 400 votes? No...

they only got thousands and thousands and thousands of votes from people like you and me to get elected. :eyes:

[Guaranteed]

17. Who did the DNC members get votes from?

And, sorry, but you're telling me the people of Nevada and San Francisco get to set our party's policies?

And you didn't answer my real question.

Who sets policy?

My answer: At the very least, it's a consensus- which is behind Dean.

[leyton]

42. Senators, Congressmen. It's the job of the legislature.

However, I will say that it is Dean's job to clarify what the party stands for, what ideals and principles give rise to the policies that our legislators suggest.

[Guaranteed]

45. Yes, but they have to come to a consensus.

Part of that consensus is what we saw today.

[wyldwolf]

4. I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed

There is nothing you or Dean can "do about the DLC."

As long as voters vote for their choice - and that choice is DLC candidates - we'll still have the DLC.

A recent Gallup survey of DNC members says...

"Looking more broadly at the future direction of the party, a slight majority of party leaders, 52%, say the party should become "more moderate," while 23% say "more liberal." One in four had no view on the matter.

Those views are generally in line with what most rank-and-file Democrats believe -- a Jan. 14-16 Gallup Poll of Democrats nationwide found 59% saying the party should become more moderate and 35% more liberal."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=14890


This continued attempt to divide the party and DU itself is really sad.

[Placebo]

6. Bingo.

[Guaranteed]

10. But, you're conveniently forgetting these numbers:

1. If you had to choose, which of the following approaches do you think the Democratic Party should take with George W. Bush and the Republicans over the next four years – ?

Defeat the Republican agenda 68%

Find areas of compromise 24%

No opinion 8%

Strike against the DLC.

 
And this:

56% of Democrats think there need to be MAJOR changes to how Democrats approach winning elections, with 34% saying there need to be minor changes.

Strike two against the DLC.

And, thirdly:

90% of those polled think that Dean is going to do either an Excellent or Good job of being DNC chair.

Strike three.

[Cascadian]

11. Proves my point further....

The DLC's day was during Clinton. It's over and it's time for a new direction!


John

[Guaranteed]

13. Forget it.

Jesus Christ, people.

How the FUCK did this thread happen?

[Placebo]

14. Not really...

Strike 1: The closest that article comes to something kind of close to being blatantly anti-DLC

Strike 2: Anti-DLC specifically? That's a big stretch.

Strike 3: I think Dean will do well too, and I don't want to see the DLC destroyed. :shrug:

Bottom line -- if they don't put DLC in the poll question, don't assume that's what these democrats were thinking or meant in giving their responses.

[Guaranteed]

20. The first is entirely anti-DLC.

The second is anti-DLC because they HAVE been the ones setting election strategy.

And the third simply puts 90% of our party's faith in Howard Dean.

[Placebo]

25. It's only entirely anti-DLC...

if that's what someone wants it to be in their head. I didn't see the letters DLC in the article, did you?

[Guaranteed]

29. You and I both know what the DLC stands for.

And their day has come and gone. We're fighting, now.

In any case, those numbers that Wyldwolf cited were from a binary poll, the alternative being "No opinion," which got 25%!! of the vote. Obviously the party doesn't want to move "farther left" (except for 23% of us). What they want is someone who will FIGHT WHERE THEY STAND. That's why they picked "moderate" (which Dean is).

[Cascadian]

21. But the DLC are a liability!

The source of the money they get is pretty suspect and they are no different than the Republicans expect they are more subtle about the issues. They try hard to be "me too" people. Why should people have a choice between Republican and Republican Lite? They must go!


John

[DaveinMD]

22. kicking people out of the party

does nothing to win the elections. We need more votes, not less.

[Guaranteed]

26. That's honestly not what I'm talking about.

This threadline turned into an attack against Dean's chairmanship. I'm not talking about kicking anyone out of the party at all.

[DaveinMD]

28. I'm glad Dean is chair

and I'm sure he'll work with everyone in the party.

[Guaranteed]

31. You and I both KNOW he will. nt

[Cascadian]

35. Me neither.

But the tactics the Democratic Party have been using have not helped. The Democratic Party I think have been infiltrated by corporatism and this must be stopped. If some Democrats want to be pro-free trade and pro-war then fine, but get them out of the leadership. That's all!


John

[Guaranteed]

36. Well, your thread got a nasty reaction...maybe

you should tone it down a bit? :P

[Cascadian]

37. My frustrations with the DLC are justified though.

I simply want them out of the leadership role. The Democratic Party must return to championing the policies of FDR and the vision of RFK. You won't win over people by pretending to be Reagan.


John

[Guaranteed]

39. You've already got it.

We can let up a bit.

Inclusion, my friend. Let bygones be bygones.

[wyldwolf]

19. I'm not "conveniently forgetting" anything

The thread is about someone's notion of what the DLC is.

With the majority of DNC leaders AND rank and file Dems believing the party needs to be MORE moderate, I'd say that is a home run for the DLC.

Your "purity" agenda is shining through here.

If a politican doesn't vote YOUR way, they're must be a part of the GOP agenda.

Dean, former DLC, governed as a moderate and is still a moderate.

DLC won the last 3 presidential elections.

[Guaranteed]

24. This has nothing to do with purity. This is about your trying to

undermine Dean's election as DNC Chair. He gets the votes of probably 400 DNC members, and you're going to act as if he doesn't have the consensus he needs to at least have SOME influence over policy?

Again, can you tell who WILL set policy, then?

The Clintons? Those who have been losing for us election after election?

Do you think maybe that's why Dean got elected to the Chairmanship?

[wyldwolf]

30. ha ha ha ha !

This is about your trying to undermine Dean's election as DNC Chair. He gets the votes of probably 400 DNC members, and you're going to act as if he doesn't have the consensus he needs to at least have SOME influence over policy?

Not only did you totally dream up that interpretation of my post, you're being very sensitive.

[Guaranteed]

33. Just tell me who's going to set policy. nt

[wyldwolf]

46. It isn't the chair

The chair (Dean) has a role, but is not the final say.

The truth is that presidential candidates, not party chairmen, define the policy agendas of political parties. Steve Rosenthal, the CEO of the Democratic 527 group America Coming Together, told me the idea that the DNC chair can define the Democratic agenda was "a crock." In 2003 and 2004, Dean exerted more control over John Kerry's platform than Terry McAuliffe did.

http://politics.slate.msn.com/id/2110985/

[Guaranteed]

50. So we're not going to have any policy until late 2007/early 2008?

Or is someone going to take the lead until then?

Is it fair to say that Reid, the Senate Minority Leader, Pelosi, the House Minority Leader, and Dean, the party Chairman, need to work together?

[wyldwolf]

56. I would say that's fair

But anyone who thinks Howard Dean is going to set the DNC on fire and effect policy change across the board is delusional.

[Guaranteed]

58. Agreed. nt

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. Gallup is notoriously right wing and has been since old George sold it.

He's probably doing triple somersaults in his coffin every time a new skewed poll comes out. A tragic fate for a once reputable organization.

Besides, there's a difference between moderate candidates and the traitorous shitbags like From, Reed, and Marshall. Though I would also include any elected official whose signature appears on a PNAC document and is therefore a willing participant in treason themselves.

[Eloriel]

66. Ah, but you see

It's your arguments which I find divisive.

Interesting how that works, isn't it?

[wyldwolf]

67. if it's my arguments you find divisive...

...then you must have a really hard time in life. People are going to disagree so you must find dissent divisive?

never in my history of DU have I called for any purging of any wing of the party. In fact, I argue against it. I do defend the portions of DLC policy I agree with. You must find that divisive.

I just quoted a Gallup poll that contains findings you apparently find disturbing. You must find that divisive.

There is nothing you or Dean can "do about the DLC."

FACT

As long as voters vote for their choice - and that choice is DLC candidates - we'll still have the DLC.

FACT

A recent Gallup survey of DNC members says...

"Looking more broadly at the future direction of the party, a slight majority of party leaders, 52%, say the party should become "more moderate," while 23% say "more liberal." One in four had no view on the matter.

Those views are generally in line with what most rank-and-file Democrats believe -- a Jan. 14-16 Gallup Poll of Democrats nationwide found 59% saying the party should become more moderate and 35% more liberal."

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=14890

FACT

FACTS are divisive.

Interesting how that works, isn't it?

[Guaranteed]

5. At the very least, Dean gets to speak for himself.

And, at least as the media says, since he's the new LEADER of the party, hopefully that will affect people in the desired way. In any case, to get into the South, he needs to be able to shape the message. Even those who DO want to move right don't know what the FUCK they're doing. "Me too" doesn't work.

[Cascadian]

9. "Me too!" doesn't work!

It's as simple as that! Even trying to compromise with the Neocons on almost anything is not good either. Though I think some of the Senators and Members of the House are beginning to get that message. I have to feel optimistic about that.

FINALLY.....A SPINE!





John

[Guaranteed]

12. Now, we DO have to change-

from the DLC's approach.

But it has to be a fighting defense. We have to "change the paradigum."

For example, look at my sig. That is the CORRECT approach to the Iraq War.

[Guaranteed]

38. You ever heard of the Sicilian?

It's a chess opening for Black in response to White's king pawn opening.

It's not a reactionary opening- which most of Black's are in response to White. Black cedes the initiative.

But, in the Sicilian, Black TAKES initiative, and attempts to poke HOLES in White's pawn structure and attack him on the queenside. It's a FIGHTING DEFENSE.

It's the ONLY way to go.

Except for MAYBE the French Defense.....:P

[Pepperbelly]

15. Great idea! Why don't we puge the party!

Give me a break, dude or dudette. That sort of thinking speaks of perpetual minority status and a real hubris that is to profound to contemplate. Who the fuck do you think sets policy?

Are you one of those who thought Terry Mc set policy? Nope. Didn't happen then, won't happen now. The elected party members do as they wish and answer only to their constituents.

[Cascadian]

23. Terry McAuliffe. Isn't he a DLC member?

eom


John

[DaveinMD]

48. most party officials

are members of all party organizations. Liberal and moderate.

[blm]

18. Dean was DLC for 11 years, I think he knows they have a place in the party

because he helped establish and implement the "third way" compromise technique.

Some in the DLC are overthetop in their arrogance, but, I don't think Dean wants to see them get pushed out. After all, it was their unfounded attacks calling Dean "too liberal" that helped popularize Dean with the left even though he was known for years as a centrist governor.

You want to push the centrists out to the GOP while Dean plans to attract centrists and moderates in the GOP now, who should be voting Democrat.

Please give Dean the space he needs to maneuver. He's smart and agile but he doesn't need purists breathing down his neck at this time. He needs our help to keep the party united and growing.

[wyldwolf]

27. blm, you're too kind

I think Dean is going to please most rank and file Dems while severely disappointing the hard left.

[blm]

51. heh...I'm a far-left but not a hard left. I believe in fighting SMART

and tough, but not so maniacally you shoot yourself in the foot. ;)

[wyldwolf]

57. yeah, I used to think I was, too

Until I met up with some of the left folks here.

[Cascadian]

34. Must.....run...at....the...center (robot voice!)

The third way, the compromise way, is no good! You cannot compromise with the Neocons. Doesn't anybody get this? What is so wrong with worker's rights, saving the environment, diplomacy over war, fair trade over free trade? You won't get them by compromising.


John

[blm]

44. Noone is saying compromise with neo-cons. You compromise with reasonable

center-rights like Snowe, Jeffords, Chaffee, etc.

Dean said once that he was triangulating before Clinton and he really believes in it for governing purposes.

Don't mix up the neo-con agenda with that of real conservatives and real Republicans. Dean knows the difference. You can compromise with REAL cons, while you put the fight to the neo-cons.

That's the word from us pragmatic liberals.

[Guaranteed]

47. There are like three real conservatives left in the Senate.

Who knows how few are left in the House.

Look, the thing is that compromising with real conservatives is one thing. Compromising with fascists- that should never happen. That's when you fight. There is no compromise.

[blm]

60. Doesn't change the fact that Dean knows the difference and will handle it

from a place and in a style he is most comfortable with, and that is his natural centrism that has been infused with his newfound lefty passion.


Give the man the room and he'll come on strong. Try hounding the other centrists out of the party in Dean's name and you'll end up kneecapping Dean.

Unintended consequences are a bitch.

[Guaranteed]

62. Everything is just perfect right now.

It's all ripe. It's even so perfect that the Repukes aren't going to know what hit them. They're going to get blindsided.

Seriously- they're still ALL talking about Hillary. It's ridiculous. They've been so brainwashed they can't keep up.

I'm not worried in the least- it's not going to take any kind of purification at all. Everything's going ALL of our ways.

[mermaid]

53. We Don't WANT The Neocons!!

What we want to attract are the ones currently voting GOP who are NOT Neocons. Not every Repuke is a Neocon.

What we want is to get those so-called "Reagan Democrats" back to being DEMOCRATS.

There are plenty of moderates on the other side who are heartily pissed off with the reactionary and extremist way in which BushCo is playing to the fundie base. The neocons.

It is to THOSE MODERATES we need to appeal. Because THEY are who will put us over the top.

and no more fucking Nader's to be sticks in our spokes! Sorry, hard-left folks...we gotta WIN a few elections before we can start coming back the other way. You can help us....or you can continue to help the Neocons. your choice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Self Delete

[Guaranteed]

40. It's a messed-up thread.

It shouldn't have happened.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. I'm Going To Pray For The Wisdom To Stay Out Of These Threads...

eom

[marcologico]

41. Guess he better pay his back dues.

Not that I'm a fan of the DLC, but it seems to be the party policy shop, for better or worse. Dean's governing policies (and campaign promises) were basically off-the-shelf DLC. Kerry's were a little more cutting edge, his energy policy particularly.

[Guaranteed]

43. That's all true.

Marco- that was a good post.

What the hell are you doing? :P

[marcologico]

52. LMAO

just a lucky break

[Tinoire]

49. They'll self-destruct on their own

by either going back where they came and working for change in Republican Party (now there's an idea!) or accepting that the newly revived Old Dem Party is not going to ignore the base to please a few swinging voters. It's going to be a bumpy ride but well worth it. And if Pelosi doesn't like it, she knows what she can do. There are plenty of progressives who aren't afraid to forcefully say boo and call a spade a spade.

Dean's got support and to give the man credit, he knows what his supporters want, and represents them.

[DFLforever]

54. Dean's advice on DLC is to ignore them

Claims DLC are a group unknown to most Americans and have little or no reach outside of Washington DC.

Sounds like good advice.

"You know, I don’t think we should dwell on that. I really think we should , instead of worrying about that there’s some other groups that want to move to the right, I think we ought to keep going straight forward. I think we are the moderate folks. They can tag us with the word “liberal” or whatever they want, and there’s nothing wrong with “liberal”, believe me, but I don't think we should pay attention to that any more. That’s one thing I would do differently if I were ,if I had to go back and do it over again, I wouldn’t bother with the DLC or the retrograde(s) , their forces in the party, I would try to move forward on our own agenda. You get sucked in to letting somebody else frame the agenda, that’s a problem. We shouldn’t let the Republicans do it nor should we let the DLC or anybody else like that do it."

Interview is on site which can't be linked to DU. If anyone requires a link, pm me.

[98geoduck]

61. good post/quote. Another great reason for Dean to be in charge.

He just makes sense.

[Cascadian]

55. To clarify to you all....

All I want to see is a change in the leadership of the Democrats. I want to see the leaders who embrace this Republican Lite business to step aside and bring in bold, new leadership. Those unafraid to take on the Neocons and not support Bush's agenda. People who will hit out as much as the Neocons have been hittin gus for so long. That's all.


I just do not want anymore of this "me too" b.s. People can stay in the Democratic Party who want this so-called third way, but they should simply step aside.

John

[Capn Sunshine]

63. Howard Dean has no fear or much else of DLC

he has stated ,most recently in this interview

"I don’t think the DLC is a serious force of politics outside Washington (DC). I don’t think anybody knows who any of them are, and know that they pay much attention"

It's only the wonks who even give DLC a second thought.

[madfloridian]

65. Pontificate in offices.

I am trying to find that quote, but I think it was impromptu...that they "sit in offices and pontificate." I loved that statement.

He is going to be very demanding, and he will allow no pontificating in offices, I fear.


:evilgrin:

[greenohio]

64. DU is going to be fascinating to watch as Dean funds and supports DLC

candidates across the country. I really hope that Dean, a centrist and fiscal conservative - 11 year member of the DLC, calls for an end of this demonization of fellow Democrats. It is really getting old. Not that it was interesting when it was new.

[Guaranteed]

68. That would be surprising as hell and hilarious. nt

[greenohio]

69. It will be. DFA has already donated money to DLC candidates.

There are dozens of DLCers in throughout the country. Dean isn't going to cut off our foot as his foot soldiers would like.