Just finished Crossing The Rubicon and an observation or two...

[CANDO]

I came away with the idea that you have to be pre-approved by the ruling elites of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, and The Bilderbergers to even have a fantasy of being "elected" President. I think Al Gore was defeated at any cost because he refused to sign on to these ruling elites' agenda. JFK was probably assassinated because he turned against them on another try at Cuba and that he didn't want to get deeply involved in Southeast Asia. I have a sneaky suspicion that Mr. Kerry was all pre-approved and he let the chips fall where they may. Essentially, the world's ruling class are plotting the future as far as what to do about Peak Oil. I was a little shocked at first that Howard Dean was able to win the DNC Chair post. But upon further thought, the "rulers" realize he can be useful as a party builder and only the christened few such as Hillary, Kerry, or the like will be allowed to represent the Democratic side of their grand chess game. As the book points out, these people really don't care which party is in power, just as long as that party is serving their purpose. Anyone else read the book?

[toddzilla]

1. i did

Thought it was good, but certainly not the "slam dunk" of proof that any one person was in "charge" of 9-11. I think there are far, far too many coincidences, and that gov't and politicians in general could give two shits about the world they live in. Other than that, i thought it was good read, but quoting your own news articles is hardly what i would call quality research.

[CANDO]

3. I didn't think he used his work as evidence.

He uses his FTW work as follow up proof that he told you so. I really find most of his stuff to have been right on the money. If you've seen his "Truth and Lies of 9/11", which was actually a recording of one of his presentations in Nov. of 2001 and now here we are in 2005 and compare what he said then.......it is really, really scary. He definitely has me convinced when I see daily the things going on in the MSM and compare what he's come up with. How about the other day when The Times broke with the 52 FAA warnings which was covered up? The Administration had to have known. Innocent parties don't go to such great lengths as refusing to go under oath and cover ups if they have nothing to hide.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

2. I'd hate to see Hillary as President. She's unaspiring and...

reminds me of someone who'd just take care of herself.

Howard Dean is the man to take charge now! Dean is a leader, not beholden to the powerful!

[CANDO]

5. Your last sentence is exactly what I'm saying.

Because Mr. Dean is not beholden to the powerful, he will never get into the White House. I thought Colin Powell said recently in a book or interview that one of the reasons he decided against a run for the Presidency was that if he got elected, he was afraid he'd be assassinated.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

19. I know. That's why I wanted a Clark/Dean ticket in 2004.

They are anti-establishment people who are populists! Wesley Clark had one of the most liberal platforms out there. Clark was never a "team player" while in the military and he was one of the most talented Generals, in part because he thought for himself and had ideas that were better than the establishments. That's why I think that the powerful "interests" will make Hillary our nominee in 2008!

and to that I say :argh:

[Indiana_Dem]

4. I've wanted to get ahold of it but haven't yet.

I've already put some of the pieces together, and although PO may have a great deal to do with it, there is probably much much more.

Although I'm a Democrat for life and in my heart, I do believe there are some powerful forces pulling strings in both parties. There are too many questions for me as to why some Democrats have voted for or promoted issues that go against the grain and fabric of the party such as GATT, NAFTA, etc., without demanding fair trade and environmental laws; why some would give away the power to go to war to the president; why media monopolies and certain laws are allowed; why the Patriot Act slid through without much dissent; why so many things were never implemented to prevent 911 from occuring; why we see no rationing measures taking place during a time of war; why we have nobody fighting for alternative energy solutions and energy conservation, and many many other things.

It would be one thing if we told the plain truth about matters and given open debate as to what we can do and come to consensus together in order for things to work out for the benefit of all. However, as time goes on, we are encouraged to accept quite the opposite of logic and compassion and things become more and more secretive. This is not the world I grew up in 30 years ago.

Anybody that seems to have any sense about the issues at hand is ridiculed, slandered, and put in their place appropriately by the media.

I want to read the book but I think it will only confirm my tin-foil hat thinking, of course.

[CANDO]

6. Thanks for replying, Indiana_Dem.

By all means, obtain this book and read it. You, like myself, are really just trying to put the pieces all together so you can understand what's been going on. One thing that seems to be as sure as the setting sun, and that is Peak Oil. You will soil your britches when you read the parts pertaining to the eventual need to "de-populate" mother Earth. Yes, if we cannot find resources to replace hydrocarbon energy very soon(within perhaps as few as a decade or two), the world's population will have to be reduced from 6.5 billion to 2 billion people. The book explains this in very stark terms. It may have to be done through the use of bio-agents or just plain starvation, but without hydrocarbon energy, there simply isn't enough food production capability to feed 6.5 billion people.

[Indiana_Dem]

7. Some of it is already being done--

someone on another board already pointed this out to me.

Look at the depleted uranium (DU) scattered all throughout Iraq and in the Bosnia-Hertz. war. This will mame/kill people for life for many generations.

Then look at how we continually feed livestock the very ingredients in the feed that is causing the mad cow syndrome.

It's already beginning in that respect. I had never thought of these two things in this way. Those 2 things are "bio-agents".

There is also the threat of genetically engineered seeds/food. If something new comes and wipes these strains out, we are doomed.

Pretty scary stuff.

[NEOBuckeye]

9. Organic Farming sans Oil could actually sustain the Current Population

And perhaps then some. True, Organic Farming is much, much more labor-intensive without the assistance of petroleum-based fertilizers and equipment. But given the degradation of soil and the implications of Peak Oil, we're really not going to have much of a choice anyway.

Not that I'm advocating the current sustained global baby boom or anything close to that, however. Even Organic Farming at its' best will only carry us so far, up until we hit an absolute wall in food production when we are using the full capacity of the Earth's arable land.

We do urgently need to gradually and peacefully implement measures to cut our numbers down. Think birth control, vasectomies, tube tying, and/or something akin to steep fines for families who have more than a maximum of 1 or 2 kids, as well as tax breaks/credits and incentives for couples who decide not to have ANY kids, period. If we don't take the initiative and do our part to end our population/resource overshoot, Mother Nature will certainly, eventually and inevitably unleash far, far more painful methods to do it for us.

I think our key problems here aren't so much about alternative energy development and production -- although make no mistake, that certainly is absolutely critical to our survival -- but are actually about breaking down and breaking up the entrenched structures, and removing from power the people who control those structures who are preventing us from taking the necessary steps forward to save civilization and the planet itself.

The fact is, Multinational Conglomerate Corporations are way too powerful and wield way too much influence over government in virtually every country and political body on Earth today. What city, state or national government isn't beholden to corporate influence on some level or another? Look at how badly corporate money has tainted our political system.

In addition, the people who operate and benefit most from corporations, namely CEOs and other top corporate executives, are the individuals least likely to suffer the most immediate and devestating consequences of their actions. How quickly did Ken Lay suffer for his hand in cooking Enron's books? Will he ever be reduced to pushing carts and bagging groceries in his old age like so many of his former employees have been, because of his criminal decisions? When the people at the top who make the executive decisions don't have to directly face or experience the consequences of those decisions, the stage is set for massive corruption and breathtaking abuses of power.

But with Peak Oil and its implications nearly at our doorstep, one way or another, this disgusting, breathtaking contempt for reason, honor and decency is going to come to an end. The question is, will we allow it to continue until the entire human race and all life on Earth teeters on the brink of annihilation?

The Corporations and the people who run them have a vested interest in maintaining their hold on power for as long as they possibly can, and they will cling like desperate, end-stage drug abuse addicts to whatever grants them that power, be it Oil or whatever other natural resource they are so dependent upon. As a drug addict is to crack, the Bushes, Cheney, CEOs and other people who derive their power from Corporate structure are literally addicted to power. How does a drug addict act when he can't get his fix? He lapses into withdrawal and convultions, but often before that, he may embark on a rampage of thievery, deception, robbery and even murder just to get that one more high.

And look at the oil companies now. Look at Dick Cheney. Look at the Republicans. These fools have lived so long and high on the money and power that they have derived from Oil that they have been scared totally shitless by the prospect of Peak Oil and its subsequent production decline. And now we're in Iraq, and they are beating the drum more and more to invade Iran. Remember what I said about drug addicts?

No more Oil = No more Fix = No more power (figuratively & literally)

And we wonder why major media is keeping so many people in the US in the dark about what is really going on? If the American people knew what Michael Ruppert, Dick Cheney and those of us posting on this thread know now, Oil stocks and Wall Street would crash faster than you can say "1929" and the entire Bush Family Evil Empire would be in handcuffs onboard a one way flight to The Hague to stand trial for war crimes against humanity.

[NEOBuckeye]

8. ...But we like Greed much, Much Better!

The greed of Corporations and the powers that be is also behind the suppression of alternative fuel and transport development. Consider that technological advances have continuously improved the quality of nearly every single modern device or medium since its' first use or debut. The multi-feature AM/FM/CDRW Radios and Plasma Flat Screen Televisions of today are massively improved over their boxy, tubed predecessors of the 1940s and 1950s. Also witness the exponential development of computers. Fifty years ago, electronic computers took up space in buildings equivalent to an urban city block and performed functions not much more complex and a lot less quickly than what you can do on a hand held calculator today.

Today, we have laptop-sized and even smaller forms of computers that are infinitely faster and more useful than their room and block-sized ancestors of decades-past. Meanwhile, today's 2005 model year vehicles scarcely achieve better mileage than their 1930s-built counterparts. In fact, since the mid 1970s, average MPG for automobiles has actually decreased.

:wtf:

Think about it. If automobile MPG improved and increased over time since the 1920s and 1930s the way one might have expected it to do, the same way computers, radios, TVs, telephones and other electronic/mechanical devices have improved and become more efficient over time, we should actually be driving vehicles today that are getting at least anywhere between 200 and 300 miles per gallon.

Now read that last paragraph again...

Think about it. If automobile MPG improved and increased over time since the 1920s and 1930s the way one might have expected it to do, the same way computers, radios, TVs, telephones and other electronic/mechanical devices have improved and become more efficient over time, we should actually be driving vehicles today that are getting at least anywhere between 200 and 300 miles per gallon.

:wtf:

Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself. Basically, either the auto companies have been collectively and perpetually grossly incompetent in fuel efficiency development, or there is some other reason for them not wanting Americans to go too long without filling up their tanks. Put on your tin foil hat if you want to, but it seems to me that someone has a vested interest in bringing us back to the gas pump every week or so.

Also, since the advent of the "Eisenhower Autobahn" a.k.a. our Interestate Highway System and godfather of the plague of suburban sprawl, passenger railways have been on the decline. You remember? Trains. Light rail. Mass transit. The one thing that could effectively and dramatically reduce our dependency on Oil, were we so inclined and willing to restructure our society and our lives around it.

France does mass transit, and does it quite well, I might add, even powering their trains via electricity generated by nuclear power. Most people there take trains for all of their trips of significant distance. Perhaps not surprisingly, their roads and highways aren't ridiculously clogged with private passenger auto traffic.

But Americans and indeed, American society itself, at least since the end of WWII, have grown up with the private passenger vehicle and its' accompanying notions of that oft spoken but much less often understood value, freedom. For fifty years, that "freedom" has meant mobility for nearly an entire society to travel anywhere at any time in the country.

But freedom has a price, and exacts its toll upon American society each year in the tens of thousands of lives lost in auto or auto-related accidents. Countless hundreds of thousands more are wounded in some form or another in automobile collisions. There is also the hidden cost of time lost from our lives during travel. Millions of Americans spend between 2 and 4 hours on the road each day just travelling to and from work. That adds up to between 1 and 2 whole months out of our lives each year that we spend on the road.

Is the personal automobile drive worth it? Maybe we should be asking, is it bearable? Consider the fact that more and more vehicles are being equipped with "entertainment centers" that in addition to the standard CD/radio, provide television, DVD and even laptop/computer use. Some people even hook up their video game consoles! I guess all of these things could come in handy during the rush hour, wall-to-wall traffic pile-ups. But maybe Americans really need these things to keep their minds off all of their time spent in their portable vehicular prisons, even as the oil barons laugh their way to the bank, albeit a bit more nervously these days.

[NEOBuckeye]

10. One more example of Corporate greed supressing the will of the People...

http://www.ufcw.org/ -- Wal-Mart shuts down store to avoide Unionized workforce

Corporate executives are so scared of the common people rallying together to unite in their own best interests. It would almost be comical if so many people weren't hurt and displaced in the process by their greed.

I'm telling you, folks: I believe that we can and will somehow survive Peak Oil. But the real battle is going to be about figuring how to wrest the power of our unity and our government back from the corporations, and then to put them and the people who run them back into their place for good.

[CANDO]

15. Thank you, NEOBuckeye.

You are very well spoken and seem like you may perhaps be a college professor of some sort. You are so right on the money as per us wresting power from the corporate vampires.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

18. Remember what you said about France and Europe can...

be said for most of the world. To say that there is an "international conspiracy" is hard to fathom. Americans are consumer crazy and YES, it could be part of the plan to control the masses. But remember, no other nation in our world is as "F%#&ed" up with spending than America is. You can't say that Europe is the same as we are since they have a FREE PRESS and their people tend to be more skeptical of powerful institutions.

[Al-CIAda]

11. I believe this to be the case as well.

Edwards made a visit to the 'elete' during his candidacy.

"Regime rotation' I believe is the popular terminology.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. I'm just saying....

Kerry is a Bilderberg member and Edwards met with them shortly before the election.

:tinfoilhat:?:shrug:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. All Presidential candidates since 56' have met with the Bilderbergs.

That does NOT mean that they are all one them.

[independentchristian]

20. Exactly

Besides, Kerry is a bonesman, and we definitely know that much about him and his 9th cousin, George W. Bush, both of which are descendants of a guy nicknamed "Dracula."

[PROGRESSIVE1]

21. JFK too met with the Bilderbergs, but he was NOT a "player" with...

the powerful elites so he had to be "done away with".

Remember, not everyone there is willing to blindly advance their goals.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Well, beyond meeting with them,

Kerry joined. As for Edwards, he was new meat. One can make the case that one needs to know thine enemy (so I'll give Edwards a pass) but how can one claim to be fighting for the common man when one joins an elitist cabal?

Even if the Bilderberg Group isn't the fascist octopus that it appears to be, it is clearly a gathering of the elite monied interests that have been sucking the common man dry for decades--wait, that makes it a fascist octopus! :think:

[Pastiche423]

26. Edwards attended a Bilderberg meeting

prior to Kerry's selection of him as a running mate.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Yeah, summer of 2004, iirc.

[bush_is_wacko]

13. I didn't read it but have heard the same from many about it.

Actually, I don't think it takes a genius to come to those conclusion's. Any history buff can make a "reasonable" judgment of what has gone on in this country since before WWII.

I do want to read this book though.

My dad has been saying this since I was a small child and there are a lot more people that believe this than not. They are just too afraid to FIGHT back. The unknown consequences of CHANGING the way politics operates are holding people back.

I have to admit, even I am afraid to contemplate the reality that our government is an entity that has been almost completely infested with people with an agenda that has nothing to do with America or freedom or democracy.

[bunny planet]

14. I'm in the middle of it now. You almost need a visual chart on a

blackboard to connect up all the acronyms and secret, nefarious organizations and subterfuge. It's a mind-bender of a book for sure so far. My initial reaction is that he could have made it more accesible with a little bit of careful editing and inclusion of the above-mentioned chart. I'm slogging through it though. It's very intersting so far.

[LizW]

22. Same here, bunny

It is taking me a long time to get through this book because it's just so mind-boggling. The inter-relations between the elites and the shadowy groups and, of course, the CIA, are staggering.

[bunny planet]

23. I know, it's so complex. That's what makes it believable.

You just can't make this stuff up.

[FightinNewDem]

16. Oh no...

There is an ultra right wing member of the NH House who wastes everyone's time with his theories regarding the bankers, black helicopters, and the gold fringe on the flag, which apparently implies we are under martial law.

When I see folks who are ostensibly Democrats buying into this same fever-dream crackpottery, I really start to feel ill.

[sadiesworld]

25. Yep.

It would be nutty to think that unelected, largely unknown individuals would be zipping around in bullet-proof cars to out-of-the way spots to make decisions which affect every person on the planet and strip countries of their laws, indpendence, and sovereigny in favor of corporate rule.

Oops...sounds like the WTO, IMF and World Bank.

Tinfoil, indeed.