You Should Know this about Dean Supporters

[BurtWorm]

I think I can speak for a lot of them: Our guy got hit by an express train yesterday. It wasn't his third place finish in Iowa. I, personally, could have borne that fine. It was the inSANE attack on his "unpresidential" behavior at the close of business on Monday. Try to imagine what it would be like to have the person you've been supporting with time and money, the person you fully and honestly believe is the best candidate for the Party run smack over by the Conventional Wisdom Express. Imagine that all of the noise about your guy, all of the incessant babble coming out of the gas bags in medialand is about his mental health and emotional stability. Just try to imagine what that's like. Then imagine that you're getting that gas not just from the media, not just from the right-wing, but from members of your alleged party. Got the picture?

This is not an appeal for sympathy for Howard Dean or his supporters, but an attempt to get some of you to understand that many of us Dean people are feeling slightly traumatized today. I am. So trying to sell me another candidate today is something on the order of trying to tell a cancer patient's spouse that she ought to start dating right after the funeral. Are you getting the picture?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. I agree

While I have had my criticisms of Dean, his supporters have put ELBOW grease into his candidacy. Sometimes the lack of class demonstrated at DU makes me ill.

Rubbing salt in wounds is a cheap shot.

[democratreformed]

2. No one should be selling you another candidate anyway

Actually, it's more like them trying to tell the spouse to start dating BEFORE the funeral.

Dean NEEDS his supporters now more than ever. If you believe in your candidate, don't give up.

I will proclaim my support of and intention to vote for Wesley Clark until that is no longer an option. ONLY THEN will I consider ABB.

[lucidmadman]

3. It'll blow over...

...really it will. He's not my choice, but I want the selection process to go on as long as possible so that the Rovean attack dogs can't draw a bead. The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on....

[democratreformed]

6. Hey you make a great point

about the attack dogs being able to draw a bead. Yeah, I say "keep 'em guessing"! That's excellent!

[lucidmadman]

23. Hey, I'm not the only one...

...it's an idea I've heard/read expressed in editorials and last night on the Bernie Ward Show from his guest, Kevin Phillips. We're the party of ideas, diversity, open debate so why not show that. Let the media work for a change to cover the story.

[Skwmom]

4. I agree

which is why I have not made one post about Iowa.

[patricia92243]

5. Go Burt! Tell it like it is!

[BeyondGeography]

7. Hang in there, Worm

We all get our turn to suffer in this game.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. that's the problem with a movement about a person

A really tight powerful political organization can pick and choose from eligible candidates, instead of having the candidate "lead" and build the movement himself.

I also don't think we can feel sympathy or loyalty to a specific person - a candidate gets knocked down? Send another one.

In any case, if Dean's movement is what Dean fans say it is, this won't matter - the sheer strength of numbers and organization and feet on the ground can win it - *if* the numbers are really there.

[BurtWorm]

12. It's not about the person, though, WCtV

But Dean was at the head of a movement. Is at the head of it. It's hard not to think in past tense. I thought this shit was over yesterday. In any case, the movement doesn't transfer very well to anyone else out there, mainly because of the contempt several of the other candidates have shown it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

41. If it's not about one person

Then the movement will survive. If it is about one person, then it won't. I think they are over-exaggerating this speech "gaffe" too - the Wall Street Journal is *overjoyed* that Dean got trounced in Iowa - hell, the fact the WSJ is against you is probably the best endorsement you can get!

[BurtWorm]

54. I think it is already a movement that will go on with or without him.

You know, it's a pickup of the anti-war and pro-democracy movements. Look at your name, and probably hundreds of others here at DU. You wear that sign in reference to the very movement I'm talking about, the one that created DU, Fringe Folk, Voter March, Media Whores Online, Buzzflash, MoveOn. That's the movement I *think* Howard Dean's campaign is a continuation of. And I think he may not have intended it to be so. It's almost as though we co-opted him.

[WilliamPitt]

9. I hear you, man

That's what I was talking about yesterday. The speech wasn't bad. The blowback was a truck bomb at the front door. Sweep up the glass and move on.

[dreissig]

55. Sweep Up The Glass

Thank you for that observation, Will. Dean represents the possibility of real change. It's no wonder there are explosions going off.

Wanna see some heads turn? Kerry should admit he fucked up and apologize. It has to be a genuine apology, one that will cost him support among the centrists and the hawks. Take the cat 'o nine tails and draw some blood. He should say, I, John Kerry, acted like a politician.

[Padraig18]

Well said, BurtWorm!

:thumbsup:

[daveskilt]

10. Hey maybe he can come back

and if he can he will be stronger for the experience of monday. Thats the point here to get the best candidate. more importantly to make the best candidate better through through the primaries. I dont' care if dean wins or not. The person who wins will be the guy who can do it against bush. I know a couple of dean staffers and my concern is the organization. They are frustrated at the majority of the dean staff who are reactive rather than proactive and often inept. That isnt going to get it done against bush. Shell shocked would describe the dean staffers I know, but more than that there was a lot of denial going on there.

[colonel odis]

11. i agree as well

i'm not a dean guy, but he's really getting short shrift by this right-wing media.

chris matthews and his little clique of peggy noonan (a reprehensible, patronizing bitch), howard fineman, and joe scarborough (did they ever find out how that dead intern got in his office?), were snickering at dean like they thought they were the cool kids at school.

dean's speech was a little odd, i thought. but it made him look passionate, not insane. not only is the white house afraid of him, but the media's afraid of him. they're going to paint him as a crazy man because he won't take any shit off them.

[daveskilt]

24. If Dean doesn't win

Then whoever does win needs to get some of that passion and get those great dean supporters on their team. One thing Dean has done better than anyone is develop some feircly loyal passionate and motivated supporters. I just wish we get an ubercandidate with sharpton/kucinich social policies, Kerry's service focus and Economic policies, Some Clark charisma, dean passion, and edwards foriegn policy. (or pick your favorite parts of each candidates platforms) then get CMB as secretary of state...thats a damn fine start. I do hope that the eventual winner adopts the best of the other candidates positions to take to the nation and against bush.

[calimary]

33. Peggy Noonan is Reagan's Monica.

She behaves toward Reagan, Bush 1 and his scumbag sonny-boy as though she wishes, deep down, that their wives would disappear...

Anyway, I appreciate this thread mightily!

It does tempt one to feel like he or she has been sucker-punched. But Iowa is just the beginning. What really will matter is how things start to shake down from New Hampshire onward.

[dreissig]

59. Peggy Noonan

I don't like to think of good Irish Catholic girls putting out because a dude has flash and money. But there's Peggy Noonan! It happens in the best of families.

[pacifictiger]

13. I feel bad for all the young people

that have put so much effort out, only to be dissed outrageously on almost all fronts. It would be good for them to remember that most people throughout history really advocating change for the betterment for society as a whole, have been hammered. Keep the faith that honorable effort will be rewarded. It may not come in exactly the same form as you might have initially envisioned, but, just like day follows night, it will come.

[Democrats unite]

14. I appreciate your words BurtWorm & I can feel what you speak...

been there and done that. But to be honest what really ticked me off with allot of Dean supporters is that something big was made out of nothing & thats not what happened. I myself reacted to the actions I was seeing nothing more. If I would have seen a concession ok we lost it's on to NH. I would have been right there & said see you in NH, but we know that didn't happen and whenm you add the NBD to the mix, i'm not going to hold any punches. I hope you can see where I am comming from (there is enough blame to go around for all).

[Bonobo]

15. That was such a well-written post that I had to say thanks.

I post infrequently and selectively. But I wanted to say that your post was very sensitive and made me think.
It hurts to lay yourself out on the line for a candidate. Your soul goes into it (as it must). Just like in love, eventually you must go on and find another partner if your first one leaves you (or dies).
I wish the rest of DU would hop on THIS bandwagon and try to stand in eachother's shoes for a little while as you have so effectively made me do.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. If you don't want people to try to sell you on other candidates,

why come into GD: 2004 Primary? Why not just hang out in the lounge, or GD, or the Dean blog?

There are many folks who are uncommitted or not 100% committed, and the messages posted in GD: 2004 Primary that are tailored to raise support for a candidate are directed at them, not at you.

[Padraig18]

18. There have been several today aimed specifically at us.

They were in VERY poor taste.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

48. Well, although you personally may be 100% committed,

it is not unreasonable to assume that not every Dean supporter is 100% committed. Those are the people those appeals are aimed at. And it is not in poor taste during a campaign, to campaign.

[BurtWorm]

50. Not in poor taste, just a little cold blooded. At the moment.

:hi:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. 6 days till NH

every campaign needs every dollar and all the support it can get. I personally did not participate in the threads under discussion, although I saw one I didnt open it, so I don't know what went on in there, but that's what the 'hide' feature is for. Some threads really tick me off too, but I accept that I can't keep people from saying what they want to say.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

17. Thanks for being honest. If there were more people who stated this

like you did they would have received much more empathy from people. Nothing wrong with showing a little vulnerability. It makes one human....

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. I was thinking about that while I read this board Monday night.

You are absolutely right, and it amazes me how people tend to respond in the heat of a campaign. It's almost like ambulance chasing. Dean has a problem now, maybe he can get past it, maybe not, but even those who believe he can't should just lay off it.

You guys have worked you butts off, in a dedicated effort to change this country for the better. I hope the Dean campaign gets back on it's feet. I don't want him to beat my guy, mind you lol, but I want it to be a fair contest, with the winner chosen based on the issues and what is best for our nation and our party. Good luck, and though you don't ask for it , you have my empathy. Sympathy has the wrong tone, too defeatist.

I do wish though that some of the people in Dean's camp would not reflexively lash out at other candidates in the same way Dean was just treated. I know there is a honest point to be made about "how does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot", but we HAVE to get past this type stuff, for everyone's sake.

[NoPasaran]

20. Is someone selling candidates?

I must not have been reading the spam threads.

Anyway, I'm a Dean guy because I honestly believe that our campaign is still about changing the party and the country, not just changing the president, as worthy a goal as that is. I didn't sign on because that's what all the cool kids were doing And I'm not abandoning our campaign at the first crisis.

Come November I'm ABB but for now the Doctor Is In.

[K8-EEE]

21. I Totally Understand, I Respect HD & HIs Supporters!

I know first hand the heartbreak of really believing in a candidate and seeing them tank. IT'S THE STORY OF MY LIFE! In '92 I worked on Jerry Brown's Prez campaign...I gave them $50 and in those days that was more like $500 to me.

More recently I worked on Ariana Huffington's bid for Governor. Now that I'm older and wiser, I KNEW damn well she didn't have any chance; however, her running, it did a lot of good, it drew a lot of new voters into the fray.

Howard Dean did an amazing job drawing awareness to GWB's lies, especially about the war, to those who had been disenfranchised, he made people pay attention.

So all the best to Howard Dean, I don't dislike him AT ALL. In fact we on the ABB side of things owe him big time.

The job requirement he lacks IMO is, political savvy. Everyone SAYS they don't like "political" types but come on -- this is THE World Class #1 Political Job of the Universe and I think you have to be a little more clued in than him & his org.

If they miscalculated so badly in IA, about the caucuses and how they worked and all that -- then GWB's wrecking crew would steam-roller over the Dean camp. I see GWB as ALL politics as usual, no ideas whatsover; and Dean the opposite, but if you have to win a political race you need a world class politician.

Please read Michael Moore's message to Dean supporters. It's very respectful and supportive. The Dean volunteers have done an an amazing job.

[Cocoa]

22. I feel as strongly about Gephardt

I think it's tragic how little consideration most people gave him, in my opinion due to superficial style factors.

But I can't relate to the hypesensitivity and victim mentality I'm seeing from some of the Dean camp. There are still some great choices left.

[dreissig]

57. So Glad to Be Rid of Gephardt

One down, and many more to go. But I'll take it! Gephardt was a turkey, one of the big ones.

[onecitizen]

25. Someday people will recognize.........

what Dr. Dean has done here. He re-energized the party. He made people believe again. And MOST importantly, he shook up those so- called leaders of ours. He truly shook them to their core. Thank Gawd for that. But I don't hold out much hope that they will remember. I think as soon as elections are over, they'll be back to their little inside-the-beltway lives, forgetting us again.

Well stated Burt. Thanx for your post.

[AP]

26. The CW the media levelled on Dean was all over DU MONTHS ago!

If people listened to it back then, it would have never come to this.

[OKNancy]

27. I cringed when I saw some of those posts

I know I would be offended, especially since it is way too early for such stuff.

[On the Road]

28. Thanks for All the Kind Words from Non-Dean Supporters

Personally, I felt like I was run over by a truck on Monday night. Having strep throat didn't help. I really felt like it was all over.

But maybe it's a little premature. Americans are a fickle bunch.

[Southsideirish]

29. No one informed him TV cameras were going to be there!

He thought he was speaking to the "amen chorus" of supporters and was trying to rev them up for their continued support. Tom Harkin was raving and screaming, too, that's what led up to Howard's spiel.
He was "hot in a "cool" medium. I thought it was great that he was letting his emotions out but its unusual to see someone doing it in public in this day and age where we are all very subdued in our public actions. The media and others will never let him get over it but maybe we can turn it into a big joke - we (Dean people) could play the tape and screech along - doing the "Howard holler" - to show our support at the beginning of our "Meet Ups". Maybe it would become the clarion call for us to continue the fight! We could have buttons that say YEEOWWWWWWW!

[On the Road]

32. Is That Right?

He wasn't prepared for the cameras? He thought it was an inside performance?

Wow! That puts a new spin on it entirely. I thought the media reaction was way overdone, but it did seem to show a big miscalculation.

It would seem like Dean would have been expecting the cameras after the caucuses closed. Or was his official public speech supposed to have been later? Is that why the networks cut away from the previous speech prematurely? Was Dean sandbagged? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Southsideirish]

36. As soon as I saw it I knew that was it - then I saw if confirmed today

I will try to find the link and post it.

[Southsideirish]

43. Link to "camera" story.

http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20040121/5855309s.htm

[stopbush]

30. Yeah, it's not like he got a blowjob or something :) n/t

[Adjoran]

31. As I've said before

including when Dean was riding high, it is a long race with many primaries, and there will be ups and downs for all the candidates.

It isn't all bad to have a bad month early. While it hurts his chances in NH, it beats hell out of a bad month in March or April.

[TopesJunkie]

34. It looks like this is going to help Dean in the long run --

The bashers ended up looking like foolish goons once people actually saw the speech. Not only that, Dean gets to hit the trail with Kerry as the number one media target. I think Dean will win big in NH, with Kerry a distant third to Clark.

[Blue_Roses]

35. I agree

It's getting blown waaaay out of proportion. Enough is enough.

[Indiana Democrat]

37. Dean did this all to himself...

...and if you can't see that, but instead chose to blame others, then it's pointless trying to "Sell you" on other candidates in the first place.

I just figure you'll do what you'll do and I don't worry about you too much. We'll be happy to have you on the team, but if you're not, we'll win anyway.

[BurtWorm]

53. Dean made a noise too shocking for delicate American ears.

That's what Dean did. The delicate little sensibilities all whispered to each other in the echo chamber about how shocking it all was, that noise.

When something like this happens to your guy, you'll get a nice taste of what that hypocritical, self-satisfied conventional American "wisdom" is like. There's nothing to blame about it. It is what it is. But that doesn't make it any less worthy of contempt.

[mitchum]

38. Burt, perhaps if a number of his supporters (not you) hadn't...

acted in such a belligerent manner on this board, some of us wouldn't have taken such delight in the spectacle of Dean's self-scripted Daisy ad
I (and I assume I am not alone) don't appreciate being hectored or extorted.

[R3dD0g]

39. I've posted this thought in other threads.

But, I think it bears repeating.

Iowa picked only 3 of the last 13 competitive contests.

NH residents are fond of saying: Iowa picks corn, New Hampshire picks presidents. (I don't agree, the US picks presidents)

You Dean folks shouldn't become discouraged. This is politics, it's not a sprint it's a long race.

I think that maybe the number of new people in the Dean campaign maybe were not aware of the nature of a presidential campaign.

Hang in there. You will have good days and bad days. And possibly in the end you will win.

edit: My other posts were an attempt to quell the Dean supporters overconfidence.

[duvinnie]

40. HD doesnt need our sympathy

just our support. He is the only electable candidate out there, and the only
one worth the trouble.

[Polemonium]

42. Speak for yourself.

We are if anything more energized than ever. Tonight we'll be getting together to write letters, contribute, and put together a plan to get the word out to more people in our area. Get together with members of the biggest grass roots campaign the Democrats have seen in 30 years and you'll find that hope is what we're still about. Pundits are the only ones I see in my area talking about being traumatized, everyone here is just keeping on.

[oasis]

44. As in war, beloved commanders fall but the mission continues.

[library_max]

45. Right. Exactly.

What's the frickin' rush anyway? It was only one primary. I think people are upset by a few who are raging up and down the boards consigning all the other candidates to hell and swearing never to vote for another Democrat as long as they live. But by pushing the issue, we're just encouraging more Dean supporters to follow suit. Give them a minute and a chance to breathe. Let them remember how they hoped for and expected the support of the people who preferred other candidates when Dean got the nomination. And let them remember that that's still very likely to happen.

As for those who are piling on the media "angry man" attacks on Dean, well, thanks for your help, idiots.

[economic justice]

46. Place the blame where it belongs - on Howard Dean

Why not place the blame where it belongs? I was watching TV when Dean came on after the Iowa results and thought - he is FINISHED. Go back and look at all the responses (in shock) IMMEDIATELY after his "performance" (before all the spin that Dean people are trying to blame it on). I agree, Dean supporters should be angry, but angry at HOWARD DEAN. If he wants to be president he can't act like a frat boy who just got some for the first time. Especially, when he LOST. Blame Howard Dean - and I don't blame YOU for being angry!

[BurtWorm]

52. I can't blame Dean for something not worthy of blame.

What's to blame? He did nothing *wrong.* He just violated a lot of sensibilities--poor little delicate middle American sensibilities. Nothing wrong about that.

[dreissig]

58. They'll Get Used to It

There are some radical things going on, but the politicians-as-usual are urging us to engage in business-as-usual. Along comes Dean, who really does break the mold, and they get upset about a war cry. These people need to get used to changes. No more Bush, no more Gore, and no more Kerry!

[economic justice]

62. With all respect, I disagree strongly

"Along comes Dean, who really does break the mold..."

Breaks the mold? Well, yeah......I think a lot of people would agree with you. But, might differ as to whether it is a positive or negative thing. Dean supporters must get over this whole thing of thinking he is so "different" and worthy of almost worshipful support. That so many can't see his behavior as bizarre and say, "You Go Howard," is missing the point. This isn't Rikki Lake, Jerry Springer, or the WWF.....this is a race for PRESIDENT. Blasting Gore and Kerry in your post really shows the colors of many of the "Dean or nobody" voters. As much good as Dean has done in bringing in new voters, he has also brought in a very young and, in many ways, immature group into the party; and yes, they would think the Dean performance on Monday was cool....but most of America doesn't fit the profile of the average Dean supporter.

[Classical_Liberal]

47. I hear you, but.......

the reason Dean and his supporters used to have momentum is that they didn't used to give a damn what the shit-heads thought. We need to go back to where we were 3 months ago, when Dean was the underdog and we all supported him precisely because the gasbags didn't like him. Remember, when they criticize Dean contribute more money to his campaign.

[BurtWorm]

49. Thanks to everyone who responded to this thread! I appreciate your words

and thoughts. Thanks for the words of encouragement and even for the words of criticism. Thank you all very much. :toast:

[David Zephyr]

51. Excellent Comments, BurtWorm

"So trying to sell me another candidate today is something on the order of trying to tell a cancer patient's spouse that she ought to start dating right after the funeral."

:thumbsup:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

60. I Totally Agree

I spoke out on this earlier today.

DTH

[TreasonousBastard]

61. I hear you...

but remember that it's not about you and the other supporters-- it's about Dean. He's the one who's running, and he's the one you have to care about.

Yeah, the digs in the press and from the comics hurt, and digs from here probably hurt even more because we're supposed to be your friends.

It's a lot easier to work for a winner, and it gets discouraging when things don't go right, but that's when you have to be toughest. You have to able able to work harder and smarter and not be derailed by the mud and shitstorms.

Pushing 40,000 members of DU, and some are passionate, some are assholes, some are passionate assholes, and most aren't heard from at all. What almost all of us are here for, though, is to dump shrub this year, and so keep up the competition for a candidate, and don't let the jerks turn a good competition into a stupid war.

[MODemocrat]

63. His speech was fine, just remember how Jesus was crucified

If this is the only thing they can come up with against Howard Dean, they are to be pitied. There's never been anyone in public office as stupid as the one who is acting as president now, and it makes the stupid people feel so smart in comparison. My how the bar has been lowered under Bush.