Senate Watch - 1 February 2005 [Gonzales Nomination] Thread #1

[goobergunch]

Senate convening now.

The Senate will have an hour of morning business (miscellaneous speeches) and will then begin consideration of the Alberto "torture" Gonzales Attorney General nomination.

You can watch the Senate live on C-SPAN 2, or on the Internet at http://www.c-span.org/watch/index.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2&ShowVidDays=30&ShowVidDesc=&ArchiveDays=30

[goobergunch]

1. Chaplain delivering prayer now (n/t)

[cdb]

2. Relax-Choose another battle.

He will be the next Attorney General. I have already called Specter and Santorum in protest. I am sure there will be no effect. The fix is in.

[CWebster]

3. In the meantime

Ramsey Clarke is on the call-in show.

[goobergunch]

4. Frist explaining schedule

Specter will kick off for the Republicans.

Wants to lock in a time agrement early in today's session.

[ewagner]

5. Confirm him, damage Bush

I think we'll lose the vote even if all Dems stick together (they won't of course) so the trick here, IMO is to do as much damage to Bush as possible on the way to the Gonzalez nomination.

Make it clear that Dubya is nominating HIS CHOICE:

A man who has no judicial principles
A man who condoned torture
A man who will sell his ethics to his masters

This is who Bush has chosen to affiliate with...

judge him by the company he keeps!

[cyn2]

6. I agree with your assessment, but...

We've seen how well that worked in the last election. I think relentless actions is called for in these times.

[Pam-Moby]

8. This all goes to show

that Georgie does not have the qualifications to run a lemonaide stand ! ! !

[goobergunch]

7. Frist rising in "strong support" of Gonzales

Mark him down as another pro-torture Senator....:eyes:

And....it looks like we're getting his life story. I'm guessing that they leave the memos out.

[CWebster]

9. Dick Durbin up now on privitizing Social Security

He is great! John Nichols feature in the latest "Nation"

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050214&s=nichols

[CWebster]

10. this last pub

complained that Dems were not being civil for criticizing.

Typical.

Another bombastic Repug man with macho bluff up now endorsing.

[CWebster]

11. Debate about to begin nt.

[Skidmore]

12. Specter's up.

nt

[CWebster]

13. He has to be braindead

How else could he make these claims?

Then again, this is "one bullet theory" Specter.

[Skidmore]

14. They hang so much importance on childhood and

adolescence. They did this with Rice too and ignored her adult work record. All we heard from the Rs then was she could play the piano real good and she likes football.

We'll be hearing a lot about Gonzalez and no indoor plumbing today. Shoot, when I was a kid, we didn't have indoor plumbing either. Lots of people didn't in rural communities.

[realFedUp]

15. Leahy now, Feinstein next

[CWebster]

16. Leahy voting on record as opposed to personal story

Leahy told Gonzales not the man for the job. Need accountability.

Leahy better do the right thing. He voted for Rice, while Jeffords didn't.

[CWebster]

18. Leahy claims Gonzales believes Bush above the law.

He is really nailing him in no uncertain terms.

[G_j]

19. asking: why it is not toture only when it happens

to someone else? If this happened to US soldiers, all would call it torture.

[Just Me]

20. Rationalizations for circumventing human rights,...

,...thing is, circumventing human rights is a spot on characteristic of fascism!!!

[CWebster]

27. accountability deficit in this Administration

Those at the bottom get penalized for torture, those at the top get medals.

[G_j]

17. have you called? Capitol switchboard: 202.224.3121

last chance

Capitol switchboard: 202.224.3121

[SaveAmerica]

21. Gonzales is (worse) to our soldiers today as (they say) Kerry

was to soldiers in Vietnam. I was sick of hearing how Kerry's actions upon returning to the US hurt those who were still in Vietnam, I personally feel this is not true. I would like to know how those same people could go on and on about what they say Kerry did against POWs but not see how Gonzales' actions can be worse for our soldiers if they become POWs today. I think that's what should be talked up if anyone is able to get word to any news source.

[realFedUp]

22. Hatch next, then Schumer

all the people who couldn't quite
press the issues on Condi....

[realFedUp]

25. Feinstein on now

She won't vote for Gonzales. The
Dept. of Justice must be independent
from the White House.

[CWebster]

30. had their comeuppance? nt

[Skidmore]

23. Feinstein will vote no.

[Emboldened Chimp]

102. Yeah, right.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[CWebster]

24. Feinstein nay nt

[Just Me]

43. Whoah!!! I had no idea how many Hispanic associations OPPOSE

Gonzales' nomination. I'm glad Feinstein got all those letters in the record!!! :bounce:

[gottaB]

26. Office of Legal Counsel must be Independent

[ElsewheresDaughter]

28. CALL Capital Hill Now! 202-224-3121 ..i called Schummer he's note NO

hillary's office keeps disconnecting me

Nelson office says he has said how he intends to vote yet :(((

[G_j]

31. anyone know of Dems planning a yes vote?

perhaps we could focus some calls

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. Nelson's office said Nelson hasn't said yet which way he will vote..call

[G_j]

41. done!

[Just Me]

33. I can't find a single one!!! Otherwise, I'd be calling them now!!! n/t

[King Coal]

36. Bingaman hasn't decided yet.

The BASTRIDGE! Hasn't decided? Shit.

[G_j]

29. if the Rs want to vote in lockstep

then let them be on record as supporting TORTURE

NO Dem should vote yes on Gonzales.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

34. i'm sure hoping that McCain, Jeffords, Chaffee, Snowe will vote NO

[Skidmore]

35. McCain will

resume some major hiney smooching.

[enough already]

37. If they were serious about stopping this

They would filibuster it. But they won't. As usual, our reps are all talk, no real action.

[gottaB]

38. "I think Judge Gonzales is going to be confirmed...."

This ought to be Rhetoric 101. NO NO NO. Or else your just bsing.

[liveoaktx]

40. I agree-totally unnecessary except as a CYA tactic, as in

"Don't ostracize me, I still intend to suck up to you after you get confirmed by the Repubs"

[CWebster]

39. Feinstein essentially making the same argument against

Gonzales that was used against Rice.

Not capable of being independent of Bush--just an extention of Bush. In other words, minorities willing to be slave to the man. That's the way you get ahead as a minority in the Republican party.

[Skidmore]

45. With *, it has nothing to do with being

in a minority group. He demands slavishness from everyone around him. Look what happened to Paul O'Neil.

[CWebster]

50. True, but he exploits minorities

as evidence of his fairness to minorities.

[Freddie Stubbs]

51. The Sec of State is supposed to carry out the POTUS' policy, but

the AG is supposed to enforec the laws, regardless of the wishes of his boss.

[EFerrari]

42. I have to call Hatch and tell his racist office that as a Hispanic

I find Abu Graib Gonzalez appalling and treasonous.

[G_j]

46. Racist Hatch playing the race card, as usual n/t

[EFerrari]

53. His staffer sounded afraid to answer the phone. What a horrible job.

[Just Me]

47. He's repeating "talking points". Sounds like a broken record.

Will the American people ever catch on to this repetition machination?

:shrug:

[CWebster]

44. Hatch with the same old story

what an idiot.

[RuleofLaw]

48. How disgusting can Orrin Hatch be?

He wants to confirm him because of his life story?

Adolf Hitler had a compelling life story too.

This is disgusting. I don't care how he grew up.

By the way, notice how Orrin Hatch, when talking about Gonzales resume, he left out that Gonzales was in-house counsel for Enron!

[gottaB]

49. "one of the most humble, unassuming and decent individuals...."

Decent? Alberto "Thumbsup" Gonzales? Do we need to draw Hatch a picture?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. That didn't stop them from going after Bill Clinton

Gee, Bill worked his way up from humble beginnings, yet where was the love then?

[EST]

54. Damn!! What sickening, soulless garbage they be...

I grew up in a household with no running hot water (Hatch's latest lament), in fact, no running water at all. No indoor potties nor outdoor potties, either. We had a big woods. Would I be blessed if I tortured someone? I have no doubt I would be jailed-and should be. I can't stand watching this crap. Off it goes. The very dregs of society are running this asylum.

[CWebster]

55. Did you ever notice Dems are accused of being partisan

or "obstructionist" for not automatically lining up behind Repugs but it is never vice versa?

[Duncan Grant]

56. Hatch: 'Gonzales will make every Latino proud.'

The most transparent manipulation I've ever seen on the Senate floor. The GOP is beyond contempt.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

57. Since when is torture a Latino hallmark?

I musta' missed that somewhere.

[EFerrari]

58. (thwp thwp, nope, not in my handbook)

[G_j]

63. only for SOA graduates n/t

[CWebster]

59. This would be like stating that Clarence Thomas

makes every African American proud.

[bowens43]

60. Why do repugs make everything into a race issue?

Latino this, Latino that. Sorry asshole, that's not enough. Gonzales is fascist scum.

[Duncan Grant]

61. Be grateful to your overlords: vote RepubliCON. n/t

[bowens43]

62. Oh my god this asshole hatch

needs to sit down and shut the fuck up. No dumbass we don't expect you to perfect but we sure as hell expect the head of the justice department to not support torture.

[EFerrari]

65. Here we go with that few bad apples argument.

We're scapegoating Gonzales for . . .his own work. Now, that's accountability.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. LOL!

but sadly true.

[nickinSTL]

64. I guess Hatch thinks we're all idiots

The people involved in Abu Ghraib are being prosecuted...there is an internal government investigation...

Yeah, no one over, what? E-4? Being prosecuted for the torture?

And the government investigating itself..yeah, great :eyes:

:puke:

[Duncan Grant]

66. Hatch: Gonzales the scapgoat of Bush Adm/ Abu Ghraib

Gonzales wasn't responsible for providing legal advice given by somebody else in the Dept. of Justice. (?!) Huh?

[toymachines]

68. ya i think he has been babbling on for quite a while

what the hell is he talking about now, anthrax, scare threats, is he trying to give explanations for the bush administration or what. get back to gonzales if you must speak, stop shouting bullshit and confusing people.

[Skidmore]

67. Did I hear that right?

Oral Hatch said that the military was trying to harras Gonzalez by blaming him for Abu Gharib. I had to step out for about 10 minutes.

[gottaB]

69. Nuance this, Hatch: A Degrading Policy (Washington Post Editorial)

ALBERTO R. GONZALES was vague, unresponsive and misleading in his testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee about the Bush administration's detention of foreign prisoners. In his written answers to questions from the committee, prepared in anticipation of today's vote on his nomination as attorney general, Mr. Gonzales was clearer -- disturbingly so, as it turns out. According to President Bush's closest legal adviser, this administration continues to assert its right to indefinitely hold foreigners in secret locations without any legal process; to deny them access to the International Red Cross; to transport them to countries where torture is practiced; and to subject them to treatment that is "cruel, inhumane or degrading," even though such abuse is banned by an international treaty that the United States has ratified. In effect, Mr. Gonzales has confirmed that the Bush administration is violating human rights as a matter of policy.

Mr. Gonzales stated at his hearing that he and Mr. Bush oppose "torture and abuse." But his written testimony to the committee makes clear that "abuse" is, in fact, permissible -- provided that it is practiced by the Central Intelligence Agency on foreigners held outside the United States. The Convention Against Torture, which the United States ratified in 1994, prohibits not only torture but "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment." The Senate defined such treatment as abuse that would violate the Fifth, Eighth or 14th amendments to the Constitution -- a standard that the Bush administration formally accepted in 2003.

But Mr. Gonzales revealed that during his tenure as White House counsel, the administration twisted this straightforward standard to make it possible for the CIA to subject detainees to such practices as sensory deprivation, mock execution and simulated drowning. The constitutional amendments, he told the committee, technically do not apply to foreigners held abroad; therefore, in the administration's view the torture treaty does not bind intelligence interrogators operating on foreign soil. "The Department of Justice has concluded," he wrote, that "there is no legal prohibition under the Convention Against Torture on cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment with respect to aliens overseas."

According to most legal experts, this is a gross distortion of the law. The Senate cited the constitutional amendments in ratifying the treaty precisely to set a clear standard that could be applied to foreigners. Nevertheless, Mr. Gonzales uses this false loophole to justify practices that contravene fundamental American standards. He was asked if there were any legal prohibition against U.S. personnel using simulated drowning and mock executions as well as sleep deprivation, dogs to inspire fear, hooding, forced nudity, the forced injection of mood-altering drugs and the threat of sending a detainee to another country for torture, among other abuses. He answered: "Some might . . . be permissible in certain circumstances."


A Degrading Policy....

[toymachines]

71. now you better remember

THIS WAS NOT THE GONZALES MEMO, definetly not the gonzales memo, never will be, never has been, you got that, dont question it, oh and it didnt condone torture.
oh i missed this one...it didnt exist.

[Duncan Grant]

73. It was privileged advice to the President. n/t

edit: sp

[gottaB]

78. I hope they transcribe exactly--before asserting privilege Hatch said

it was private. Hmmm.

[Duncan Grant]

81. It was such a convoluted argument!

I'd have to see the transcript to dissect Hatch's 'oratorio'. Was that some of the best tap-dancing you've ever seen, or what?

[gottaB]

84. iiow --but I think he may have stumbled

If so, it should not go unnoticed. I hope Schumer (is he next) will pounce.

[EFerrari]

72. Hatch doesn't know what "scholarly" means. Besides footnotes.

Weasel. I hope Jon Stewart nails him tonight.

[Skidmore]

75. Hatch is, without a doubt, one of the most

unscrupulous, amoral, insipid suck-ups in the Senate. He never met a RW crook he did think was a "good man/woman".

[Duncan Grant]

79. The international poster boy for conniving weasel. n/t

[EFerrari]

80. Hey, I got thru to cspan!

[Duncan Grant]

82. BRAVA!

I knew it was you! :D :hi: :thumbsup:

[gottaB]

85. all right!

:toast:

[McCamy Taylor]

88. I got through to CSPAN too!

Mt first time. I'm Suzanne in Fort Worth (Yuck! Bush Country!)

[EFerrari]

89. Our lucky day! I've never gotten through before. And as soon

as I got on the phone, I was scared. lol

[McCamy Taylor]

95. Me too, but once I got on the air, I got mad.

:mad:

I'll bet I sounded rabid.

[EFerrari]

99. Maybe they'll rerun it, I didn't get to listen as our house erupted into

hungry people.

[CWebster]

74. If you are a Republican, it helps if you are really stupid.

That way you never doubt - and always promote your stupidity with confidence.

That could be considered a smart strategy.

[gottaB]

76. Private advice, Hatch?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CWebster]

83. "I am hispanic too and it shouldn't be used as cover for this man"

First caller.

Second caller: tard.

[Duncan Grant]

86. C-SPAN: Are these 'typical' republiCON voices?

The republiCON callers seem incapable of critical thought! They come on the line and act like cheerleaders - no organized arguments, no analysis based on evidence, but lots of ad hominem and hyperbole. Damn. :wtf:

[CWebster]

87. Did you hear the last one:

"Me and my Republican friends don't care if these people are tortured...we don't care if their land is reduced to glass".

[liveoaktx]

90. yeah, heard that. If that's representative of typical Repub talk

no wonder I can't ever be one. That's the same thing the terrorists think about the US!

[6th Borough]

94. I had to change the channel.

You guys and gals have must have some strong stomach juice to be able to listen to that drivel. :puke:

Just. Can't. Stand. It.

[EFerrari]

91. compaASSionate conservatives. n/t

[gottaB]

93. Somebody in the Senate ought to ask the Republicans

Isn't this the message they're sending?

How can they promote a chief architect of the torture policy without promoting torture?

And to preempt, I'm outraged at the outrage at the outrage! And I'm still outraged.

[Duncan Grant]

96. That's the most offensive thing I've heard all day.

I'm speechless. :wtf:

[EFerrari]

98. This mindset that you can hurt other people with impunity

and never suffer consequences, even in the quiet of your own mind, is just bizarre.

[Duncan Grant]

92. Frist: Gonzales is the manifestation of the "American Dream".

C-SPAN has cut away from the hearings/just heard Frist say this during an interview outside chambers...

:argh:

[G_j]

97. do children 'dream' of growing up to torture Arabs? n/t

[sabra]

100. Kennedy time...

[EFerrari]

101. I've read, although not studied, the Geneva Conventions

and reading, it seemed to me that they were written on the principle of INclusivity. And even apart from Geneva, it's against our OWN law.

And even beyond that, torture yields bad information AND lowers the bar on the treatment of your own captured people.

What part of this is unclear to these nutcases running our government?