Dean losing in '04 a self fulfilling prophecy for democrats

[ringmastery]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9525-2003Dec17.html

But Dean's opponents have made his opposition to the war nearly the equal of sedition -- even as they try to reap the political benefits of both agreeing with the war while criticizing Bush's handling of it. Their attacks, repeated over and over again, are beginning to become conventional wisdom. Media reports since Sunday have played off the theme of whether Dean can survive the positive news of Hussein's capture.

"Of all the Democrats, Howard Dean's anti-war campaign has the most to lose from the surprise capture of Saddam Hussein," NBC's Andrea Mitchell proclaimed.

"Saddam's capture is an undeniable political boost for President Bush and complicates things significantly for Dean's anti-war candidacy," Fox News Channel's Carl Cameron declared.

Dean is increasingly seen as the likely winner of the Democratic sweepstakes. But his Democratic opponents may have doomed him in the race against Bush.

[slinkerwink]

1. Actually the cries of "doom and gloom" for the Dean campaign has gone on

a long time now, even before the Hussein capture. Pundits would say that we'd peaked, and they predicted the flag flap would do us in, but it didn't. We just keep on proving them wrong, and we'll do so in 2004.

[ibegurpard]

3. yup

n/t

[soothsayer]

2. bah

The invasion was still illegal, unjustified.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. The only ones being hurt by these attack ads

are the Democratic candidates who appear to support them, ie Lieberman. NPR acknowledged that Holy Joe had nothing to do with the construction/distribution of the attack ads, but said last night that he was taking advantage of them to push his own agenda. They also mentioned that it appeared that other candidates (unnamed, I think-it was on the radio, and I was going home and was sometimes distracted by traffic, etc)were also attacking Dean. I know that the appearance of this ad caused me to donate more money to the Dean campaign.

I really wish two things would happen:

1. We found out who is really behind the Osama ad

2. We heard more hard hitting truths about Bush, like Gen. Clark's statements yesterday.

[sandnsea]

12. Like this

Kerry hits Bush all the time, it doesn't get reported. This was in his speech on Dec 16 and nobody said a word about it.

"We need a President who can take us back to America’s rightful path in the world because President Bush has taken us so far off course. Whether it is failing to support a new Afghanistan or supporting a failed coup in Venezuela, whether it is pushing the world away on the Kyoto treaty or pushing the world into danger over North Korea, this Administration’s go-it-alone attitude has endangered our interests and enraged those who should be our friends.

Nowhere is that clearer than in Iraq. The Bush Administration has not just been unilateralist in war, but unilateralist in the ongoing guerilla struggle. And we have been paying too high a price – in dollars and the deaths of young Americans – to continue down this road. Let’s be clear: Our problems in Iraq have not been caused by one man – and simply capturing Saddam Hussein does not finally and fully clear the path to a peaceful and democratic outcome. This is a moment of opportunity, a turning point when the Administration can and should face the realities of how you gain international support in this effort. We cannot expect other nations to join us now if the Administration prohibits them from sharing the reconstruction because they opposed us previously. That not only defies common sense – it’s childish retribution which puts our troops at greater risk. It’s time we leave no doubt what we believe: Iraq belongs to the Iraqi people, not Halliburton and Bechtel."

[Julien Sorel]

4. 'Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain', say the Deanites.

Out of curiosity, if I say the sun will rise tomorrow, does that mean I made it rise? To paraphrase George Orwell, as a child, I saw trees bending in the wind, and thought the bending caused the wind to blow.

[Kahuna]

9. When they have Ashcroft, Ken Starr and Ted Olsen..

as supreme court justices, they will see things differently. But it will be too late. When the repukes get a constitutional amendment banning civil unions and domestic partnership benefits, then they will say, heeeey! What's going on? I'm going to shrug my shoulders and say, what do you want from me? I tried to tell you but you thought it was a joke.

[0007]

18. Ted Olson, what a guy!

Can ya imagine Barbara Olson, Lynee Cheney, and Ann Coulter teasing junior about using his dyslexia as a cover for his stupidity?

Ted Olson

[xchrom]

5. good god

i haven't picked a candidate -- and frankly i would be fine with any one but lieberman.
but this hysterical paranoia that doom awaits the dems if they nominate dean has passed the grotesque watermark.
it seems to me that the passion that the anti-dean folk put into their attacks on dean are the very source of the self fulfilling prophecy they decry.
screaming and kicking -- if you nominate dean the sky will surely fall -- spare me. dems don't need the greens to pull the party apart -- they do very well on their own, thank you very much.

[JNelson6563]

7. Yes, we are worse than the Pugs

Viscious cannibals. If Bush Sr. thinks he had it bad by the abandonment of the pugs in his re-elect bid, he ain't seen nothing yet.

The only way I see a victory for Dean (if he wins the nom) is if he chooses a running mate that will appease the establishment. They fear a freeze out. Can't say I blame 'em. Well feathered nests are comfy. Much nicer than what the rabble gets.

Julie

[Kahuna]

10. Sorry but, if I want a rude, arrogant, priviledged, frat boy..

why switch? We already have one.

[tedoll78]

11. So you're voting on personality and profile, rather than policy?

Very intelligent..

[JNelson6563]

16. If you cannot see the difference of Dean and Bush

than I can be of no help to you.

Julie

[HFishbine]

19. If you want a republican

why switch? We already have one.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

20. Seriously, consider the 2 options middle America will see

and they will see: Fiscal moderate vs. National defense man.
Unless we're in a full blown economic depression they will not see the differences as worth risking a change- Dean is THAT MUCH like Bush. I know you can't see it but that is what the middle will see.

[bitchkitty]

22. In a word, bullshit.

I live in a small town that is as "middle America" as it gets. Howard Dean is not Bush. Middle Americans may be uninformed, but they're not stupid.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Read it as "moderate" America

no geography needed.

25. stereotyping, pure and simple.

Not all "privileged frat boys" are the same.
Would you approve of someone who was part of a prominent Republican Boston family, whose father was an advisor to Calvin Coolidge and who went to Yale?
Are you sure?
Check this link --
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0679405917/104-2270919-1464740?v=glance

[farmbo]

8. That which does not destroy him... makes him Stronger!!

eom

[patricia92243]

15. WONDERFUL REPLY!!

[LiberalBushFan]

13. well then

if it's a self-fulfilling prophesy, and the claims aren't gonna stop, that would be bad.
We'll have to try this:
nominate Clark and win!!!

[dusty64]

14. They certainly

have become very good at doing the rightwings dirty work for them. Well, at least they're good for something. However, it is completely turning me off and making me think even less of some Democrats. One in particular I have decided will NOT get my vote if he somehow manages to slither into the nomination.

[Rainbowreflect]

17. Although Kucinich is still my first choice, these attacks against Dean

have only increased my support of Dean. When I hear Joe Lieberman bushit I just want to :puke:

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Yup

It's one thing to tout one's policy plans, it's another to shred your fellow candidates. You're on the same team, guys!

[Armstead]

23. I agree

Stupid, stupid. Lieberman, Kerry and Gephardt are basically making campaign commercials for Bush.

Morons, they're fricking morons.

[loyalsister]

26. Perfect wording

I am so sick of the negativism. It's one thing to have criticisms and reservations about his candidacy, but to constantly repeat "he will lose." is another. That is truly damaging. Like going into a game saying you will lose. It's as if if Dean gets the nomination people have no intention of even trying to win because they are so convinced of defeat. This needs to stop now! Why can't people say well, I have some reservations but maybe if..... Possibilities people.

[Gringo]

27. If the whore media is attacking him...

then there must be something good about him.