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So Whom Should We Believe? Ken Pollack or Sy Hersh about Iran?

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 01:57 PM
Original message
So Whom Should We Believe? Ken Pollack or Sy Hersh about Iran?
Edited on Mon Jan-17-05 02:05 PM by KoKo01
On the one hand Hersh tells us we are targeting Iran's nuclear/military facilities. On the other hand, Ken Pollack says there are no plans to invade Iran and that we can tolerate their nuclear capabilities.

So...is this just another product of White House disinformation? Hersh
provides the threat so that Pollack's idea of working with Europe to put pressure on Iran through "sanctions" is what eventually happens?

I'd hate to think that Hersh is being used, since he broke the Abu Graeb scandal. Could it be that "other powers" are working to keep us out of Iran and this is a coordinated effort between Hersh/Pollack and a couple of other writers who are out putting out the same hints on both sides as Hersh and Pollack?

How do we know what the hell the TRUTH of anything is these days? :shrug: Somehow I think it's still important for "The People" to know what their tax dollars are up to with endless war.


---------------------------------------------------------------------
Salon Interview with Kenneth Pollack

(Author of "The Persian Puzzle: The Conflict Between Iran and America," Pollack arrives at a far more dovish conclusion. He argues that coordinated pressure from the United States and Europe is the best strategy to persuade Iran to abandon its nuclear program.)


But in the case of Iran in the second Bush administration, it's actually true. The principals have never sat down and met and decided on an Iran policy. Senior administration officials will tell you that their policy is to refer the problem to the Security Council, but that's not a policy. They know damn well that the Chinese will veto any measure directed against Iran in the Security Council. So at best, they're kind of kicking the can down the road.

I think that this is a huge mistake. I think there's a real shot at influencing Iran's decision making over the next couple of years, and I don't think we're going to have this shot for very long. If we work with the Europeans and present the Iranians with a fundamental choice about what kind of a country they want, and what they want their country's role in the world to be, I think there's a very good likelihood that they'll be forced to make the choice we want them to. But the Europeans aren't going to stick with this policy forever if the United States doesn't come around, and at some point, the Iranians are going to become self-sufficient in terms of acquiring a nuclear weapon. Once that happens, our ability to shape their decision making goes out the window. We'll wind up being forced to choose among a bunch of really bad options, air strikes, or invasion, or just trying to live with Iran.

You wrote that "living with a nuclear Iran will not be easy, but it will not be impossible, either." If Iran becomes a nuclear state in the next four years, do you think the Bush administration would reach the same conclusion?

In a perverse sense, I think the administration agrees with that sentence of mine. When you hear from even the most hawkish senior administration officials, they don't believe that invasion is a good option. I've had a couple of fairly senior neocons outside of the government tell me that at the end of the day Iran's going to get nuclear weapons, and there's no way to stop them. The only difference between our policies, they say to me, is that you're going to make concessions to them and we won't.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


U.S. planning for possible attack on Iran(CNN)

White House says report is 'riddled with inaccuracies'


Iran has refused to dismantle its nuclear program, which it insists is legal and is intended solely for civilian purposes.
-- The Bush administration has been carrying out secret reconnaissance missions to learn about nuclear, chemical and missile sites in Iran in preparation for possible airstrikes there, journalist Seymour Hersh said Sunday.

Hersh said U.S. officials were involved in "extensive planning" for a possible attack -- "much more than we know."

"The goal is to identify and isolate three dozen, and perhaps more, such targets that could be destroyed by precision strikes and short-term commando raids," he wrote in "The New Yorker" magazine, which published his article in editions that will be on newsstands Monday.

Hersh is a veteran journalist who was the first to write about many details of the abuses of prisoners Abu Ghraib in Baghdad.

He said his information on Iran came from "inside" sources who divulged it in the hope that publicity would force the administration to reconsider.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/16/hersh.iran/


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
1. hmm that is a hard one
given that Ken Pollack wrote "A gathering Storm" detainling all the reasons to go to war in Iraq.. yuo are really putting me on the spot here... hmmm propaganda or a real investigative journalist... you sure you want an answer on that one?

:-)

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe there isn't an answer.
But, I really hate to start distrusting Hersh on this. Somehow his article bothered me, though. Didn't quite ring true, unless it was for a reason. I don't trust Pollack so figured he could be up to anything.

I feel like saying "a Pox on both of them.." but perhaps they are both up to derailing more of the NeoCon's plans? :shrug:
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. okay clarification, Sly Hersh
Ken Pollack is a fixer of the worst kind, Also sly's article is being cobbled from the leaking sieve at DoD...
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd like to know too. Hard to know who to believe. Anyone?
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I'm with you on this one.
It's become very hard to believe anyone of them, quite frankly and even more impossible to tell them apart!

Now, is we could ever return to true journalism again (television), maybe we could answer this one. But right now, I dun-no.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Seymore Hersch has the best credentials
And the best reputation for accuracy.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. My bet is on Sy Hersh...
I find him credible. I saw him being interviewed recently and he is just as concerned about these whack jobs as we are.
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nether!
Give me proof that today's high-end journalism is the truth, not propaganda from the right as it is, then I could answer you're question.

Isn't it a sad time in our country when we can't beleive in the very writers we once did.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. Hersh is getting alot of press everywhere. So, I'm still not sure. But,
if he can STOP an Iran Invasion then good for him. :shrug: Maybe getting a dialog going (LOL's a "dialog" in the MSM..HA!) then the NeoCons and the Chimp aren't going to be jumping up and down about the NEW WAR/CRUSADE to bring DEMOCRACY to MUSLIMS...

We don't even have democracy in our own country these days..but the Chimp has FOUR MORE YEARS to tinker trying to appease the PNAC Crowd.

:-(
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
7. Pollack is a fixer in the James Baker tradition.
Ambassador Spy. Slick at the banquet table, sleazy in the kitchen.

I would trust Sy Hesh's instincts as a journalist to guard against his being used.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. I believe Sy Hersch.....
Edited on Mon Jan-17-05 02:15 PM by FrenchieCat
I did watch CNN's Sunday show (by accident)....and the RW mouths that Wolf Ticket Blitzer had on prior to his interviewing Hersch....attempted to discredit Hersch, saying that his stories are "filled with inaccuracies" and that he writes "fiction more than facts".

That's all I needed to hear. When the Republican Noise Machine attacks the source personally, you know what the source is saying is true.

The Rethuglicans probably don't want to bring out their "new product line" (attacks on Iran) until September of 2006 (before the midterm elections).....so this "premature" discussion on Iran is not pleasing to the Republicans.

They want America scared when they are ready....and not one minute before!

HAPPY MLK DAY!

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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hersh may have just what's left of your country
General Clark told Chris Matthews much the same story on HardBall last week (video available: http://www.u-wes-a.com/mediaclips-post.html) and said that the nation needed to have an open dialog about this possibilty. Well, Hersh forced their bloody hands, because they wanted to control the conversation by having Rendon ($100,000) the Pentagon's masters of PR, sell you another war.

Hersh also knows full well that he will be personally attacked for this, and is risking his career. But by "pre-empting" the bastards of the junta, Hersh has saved many lives.

Hersh is a careful researcher, there is none better working today.

To Pollack, who failed to know much before now, I say "be gone."

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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. not mutually excluding:
"no plans to invade" - allows for covert ops

"can tolerate" - doesn't mean they will tolerate
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. They both may be right
Ken Pollack said we don't have the intelligence or military depth to do what would need to be done to really stop Irans nuclear program. His view is that anything we would do would turn out badly. However, we need Iran to believe we will do it and are capable if we want to have any muscle behind negotiations. We may have sent the soldiers in to gather intelligence but also to leak it and let the Iranians think we may seriously be comtemplating invading.
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radric Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Neither of them really..
Hersh gets the nod in DU because he usually writes what people here want to believe anyway.
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. You mean Kenneth "Iraq -- The Gathering Storm" Pollack?
Sorry, but Kenneth Pollack has just about ZERO credibility in my book. He squandered it with his pimping of the invasion of Iraq from a supposedly "center-left" perspective. Granted, he came out afterward and said he was largely "duped" and "mistaken" -- but if he's been duped and mistaken once, why shouldn't he be duped and mistaken again.

Hersh has his own baggage, but is much more credible IMHO due to his lengthy list of sources and contacts. He's a bit less than believable when it comes to overarching discussions about national policy -- like his books on the JFK administration -- but is at his best when dealing more with specific areas of interest, in which his connections help him get a mother lode of recent, relevant information to the subject at hand.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Sy Hersh is to be believed.
This Pollack lost me when he said, "coordinated pressure from the United States and Europe is the best strategy to persuade Iran to abandon its nuclear program."

First of all, they ain't gonna abandon their program knowing what a loose cannon we have sitting on the big red launch button.

Second, the regime is not at all interested in "coordinated pressure." That sounds a little like DIPLOMACY and this regime knows no diplomacy; it knows only bombing the hell out of people. Part of the "war on terra," dontcha know.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
18. My Money is on Hersh
But I think in the near future you will no for sure.
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mikelewis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-17-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
19. Watch this speech from Hersh then decide whose right.
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