Moore is a THREAT for exposing the lie of the 'war on terror' in Iraq.

[Q]

Michael Moore is so much of a threat to the DLC and the Neocon PNACers phony war on terrorism that they've resorted to calling him 'anti-American' and implying that he's a traitor. Their call for Democrats to 'repudiate' him only shows their desperation as they continue their efforts to keep the American people believing a lie.

It seems the DLC has joined with Fox News, Limbaugh and Right Wing hate groups in character assassinating Moore for telling a story the Corporate Media refuses to report. They realize that the popularity of F911 has done great damage to the credibility of their phony war on terrorism being fought in Iraq. Like the RWingers and their smear machine...the DLC isn't satisfied with simply disagreeing with Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9-11. They have nothing to say about the facts presented in the movie...but object that it paints the 'war on terror' for the absolute fraud that it is.

Moore points out what many already know or suspect: that the war in Iraq has nothing to do fighting terrorism and that there is a bipartisan coverup going on to protect the real financiers and supporters of terrorism like Saudi Arabia.

Some have suggested that the DLC's character assassination of Moore is little more than censorship. I disagree. It's more about trying to destroy the credibility of someone who finally broke through the media blackout and told the truth about a secretive, corrupt White House and their Neocon/DLC/Democratic allies perpetuating a deadly fraud on the American people.

[janx]

1. Are these the same guys again--From and Reed?

They have no business getting into any of this. Moore is an artist. Just because they might disagree with some of what he has produced doesn't mean that they have any right to dictate or even suggest to anyone that he's a traitor.

When these guys did this to Dean, I was furious. Now they're going after an artist--for no reason. And who are they--a self-appointed bunch of "experts"? They certainly weren't elected by the people or by any kind of real representation of the people, were they?

They're nuts. They have truly lost any sense of credibility they may have had.

[ooglymoogly]

from and reed are choked with greed

lying and sniping
they're hoping to lead
but in the end they only peed

[ReadTomPaine]

62. Agreed!

;)

[Q]

4. It's their 'business' to try to discredit...

...anyone who threatens to expose the truth about the 'war on terrorism'. The truth is that the Neocons and Neodems haven't done anything to protect America against terrorists. That has never been their intention as they throw billions at a 'for profit' war in a country where there were no terrorists before the invasion.

And don't be fooled into believing that they have lost any 'credibility' for attacking Moore. This was a calcuated move on their part...to destroy the last few remaining voices speaking out against Bush* and his enablers.

[genius]

66. I'll take Moore over the neocoms and neodems any day.

He, at least, tells the truth.

[tsuki]

71. Has anyone ever heard the Repubs attack Coulter, O'Reilly, Limbaugh,

& company?

[DemonFighterLives]

2. I totally agree

I have been lambasted on another board for supporting Moore. I have been called "anti-american and socialist".
I don't even think of Moore as anything like a God, but the more that he is disrespected the more I feel like a cultist.
DLC totally sucks and Moore rocks.

[Q]

5. This is exactly the point of their propaganda...

...to label Moore supporters and anti-Iraq war activsts as 'fringe elements' and out of touch with reality.

[itzamirakul]

3. Has everyone who disagrees with DNC/DLC

written to them to express your distaste for their stand? I suggest that we all take the time to email them showing our support for the breakthrough work that Moore did with his film and point out that he did the work that they SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING.

[Q]

6. A good idea...

...although writing to the DLC would have the same results as writing the Bush* WH and complaining about their policies. This isn't a situation where critical thinking and common sense would convince the DLCers to change their minds. The fact that they equate supporting the Bush* Doctrine and the 'war on terrorism' in Iraq with 'supporting your country' shows their true motivations.

[w4rma]

7. DNC is NOT the DLC (again!!). The DLC is simply a group like the DFA.

Except the DLC gets almost all their funding from big corporations. And since the big corps wanted this war and support PNAC, Al From and Ralph Reed (who are pretty much the DLC leadership) are indeed trying to discredit ANYONE who opposes this war. That's why they politically assassinated Dean's campaign. That's why Lieberman spent a majority of his campaign tearing down Dean. That's the real reason why Sen. Kerry was afraid to vote against the IWR. He knew that these turncoats would go after him, big time, if he pushed too hard against the DLC's agenda.

[Q]

8. You make an important distinction...

...in saying that the DNC is not the DLC. Although it could be said that the DLC has more power than the DNC because they have the support of the Clinton 'third way' groups.

The DNC is basically being intimidated into following the dictates of the DLC. Because the DLC is essentially the 'corporate wing' of the party...they have the cash and backing of powerful corporations to call the shots and push an agenda.

And the main focus of that agenda is perpetual war for perpetual profit.

[janx]

10. Um, not *Ralph* Reed...though I'm beginning to think so...

I think you meant Bruce Reed.

[PassingFair]

11. Same difference...

LOL

[itzamirakul]

19. I deliberatly wrote DNC/DLC because

the DLC has a stranglehold on the DNC so IMO they are at present, one and the same. I will welcome any proof that you have that shows that the DNC does not slavishly follow the DLC's policies.

[tsuki]

32. Yes.

[Clark2008]

48. I have!!

And I'm exactly their target base: white, female, Southern, educated and I was a moderate until the neo-cons pushed the agenda so far to the right that I'm left. Seriously, I haven't changed - THE AGENDA HAS.

I gave 'em an earful about how stupid they're behaving. It's bad enough when the Republicans start a culture war against someone who is merely trying to tell the side that hasn't gotten out in the mainstream media, but when so-called "conservative" wing of the Democratic Party starts doing it, I start questioning who butters their white bread - and, thus far, it looks like the DLC is being funded by the same corporations who sponsor BuschCo.

[tsuki]

72. Yes.

[BeFree]

9. Liberal Leaders Like

MLK, RFK, & Wellstone.

All had their character assasinated well before their time. Moore is joined at the hip with these others.

War being the cons greatest motivation, anybody who gets in their way becomes a target. Moore is in the way of them getting their war on; he's in the crosshairs.

[Q]

12. Moore is also in the way of those who are covering up 9-11...

...and using it as a means for everlasting war.

F911 also exposes the coverup of the Bush* connection to the Saudi Royal and bin Laden families. Democrats dropped the ball (on purpose?) when Bush* kept secret the 28 pages from the 911 congressional report that identified Saudi Arabia as a supporter and financier of terrorism.

We've been told time and again not to discuss 'conspiracy theories' about 9-11 and 'move on' when we ask questions that the Bushies have refused to answer. But there is a direct connection between the Bush* cartel, 9-11 and the unnecessary attack against Iraq.

Moore was getting too close to the truth. The Neocons and their DLC buddies are getting nervous. Moore connected dots that the mainstream media is too afraid or complicit to report.

[BeFree]

14. Are you saying...

...we would have never invaded Iraq, or Afghanistan if the 'New Pearl Harbor' had never happened?

Are you saying 9/11 inspired enough citizens to seek revenge, and that urge was used as cover for the cons to get their war on?

If that is what you are saying, then we agree.

[Q]

15. We agree then...

...because 911...whether it was 'allowed to happen' or not...was used by political opportunists in both parties to push an agenda that they had wanted for a very long time.

This brings us to 'coincidence theories' and whether 911 was 'caused to happen' in some way or if it was just an extreme coincidene that everything fell perfectly in place for the Neocons and Neodems.

And it was Bush* and his enablers on the left that 'inspired' revenge. Many on the left are also to 'blame' for things getting out of hand because they had many opportunies to correct the record and show how the Bushie Neocons were rushing this nation into an unnecessary war.

[htuttle]

13. If Michael Moore is 'un-american', then I'm un-american

And I will NOT vote for assholes who call me un-american.

I'll vote Green and let the chips fall where they may.

Fuck 'em. I'm about done wasting my time and money supporting these wimps.

[Q]

16. They're not necessarily 'wimps'...

...except when it comes to protecting and defending the Constitution and democratic ideals. They know full well what they're doing. The DLCers have to help the Neocons keep up the charade that the 'war' in Iraq is all about protecting America and bringing Democracy to oppressed 'brown people'.

F911 cut through that charade like a hot knife through butter. Is it any wonder that the PNACers want to destroy the credibility of the messenger?

[htuttle]

17. True

"Syncophantic Quislings" would have been a much better choice of words.

[Q]

18. And it seems that many have finally concluded...

...that the Democratic/DLC support of Bush's* perpetual wars is more about complicity and cooperation than simply not being able to do anything about it because they're in the 'minority'.

We now know why there has been no active opposition against the Bush* Doctrine. Except for a handful of brave Democrats...the party has fallen in line with the Bushies and now spout the same 'war on terror' and 'protecting America' rhetoric to justify perpetual wars, the plunder of our treasury and the nullification of our Bill of Rights.

[tsuki]

33. Call me un-american also.

[SeattleRob]

20. DLC

In my opinion, the DLC attacks on Moore (and Howard Dean during the primaries) are their attempts at keeping the rank and file members of the Democratic Party away from thge centers of power in Washington DC. They have an exclusive "insiders" club in DC and they don't want that spoiled by pesky people like us who want to bring the party back to the people. True Democracy scares the hell out of the Washington Insiders.

What's been going on in Washington reminds me of the ending of Orwell's "Annimal Farm." Remember how the animals couldn't tell the difference between the Pigs and the Farmers. It's hard to tell the difference between the Insiders - DLC, Repubs, Lobbyists.

[Kolesar]

21. Yeah, but to Nader that is not "good enough"

Nader Challenges M. Moore to Walk the Walk........ http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=161270

[robbedvoter]

25. Um, like he did in New Hampsire? he questioned a Kerry state -

whatever came of that? Kinda like Joementum's investigation of Enron, non?

[zulchzulu]

22. What are some of the actual quotes about dissing Moore

I would like to find out who has been saying this...yes, I know Al From said something about it...but who else?

Considering Moore as a threat is a really stupid idea on a couple fronts.

First of all, he's a filmmaker who has done some great work and has exposed some issues that need to be addressed. I consider him a great American for putting his head out there for those that would rather shut him up.

Secondly, whoever is saying this crap could (and hopefully should) be exposed in a future Moore documentary about people trying to jackboot their way into public discourse and try to censor those they disagree with. I'd be glad to help out Moore in any way I could to expose their sorry asses.

[Q]

27. Every RWing media outlet has 'dissed' Moore...

...such as Worldnet, Fox, Limbaugh and others too numerous to mention.

But recently representatives of the DLC have been making the rounds demonizing Moore on the Talking Head Pundit shows and in the mainstread media. They're implying that Moore was one of the factors that 'cost' Kerry the election. Here's but one with quotes from the 'Blueprint' online magazine for DLCers:


A Blueprint for Moore Bashing

By Matt Taibbi, New York Press. Posted December 3, 2004.

The DLC has joined Fox News and the GOP in savaging Michael Moore, blaming him for Kerry's loss.

We've got to repudiate, you know, the most strident and insulting anti-American voices out there sometimes on our party's left ... We can't have our party identified by Michael Moore and Hollywood as our cultural values. – Al From, CEO, Democratic Leadership Council

You know, let's let Hollywood and the Cannes Film Festival fawn all over Michael Moore. We ought to make it pretty clear that he sure doesn't speak for us when it comes to standing up for our country. – Will Marshall, president of the Progressive Policy Institute, the think tank of the DLC

The first thing I thought when reading these passages – both taken from a "soul-searching" roundtable held by the Democratic Leadership Council – was this: Who the hell is Will Marshall?

http://www.alternet.org/election04/20650/

-----------------------

[TankLV]

57. He certainly as hell speaks for me!

If it wasn't partially for him, Kerry wouldn't have cornered the ABB vote. His support would have been lukewarm at best. MM made it possible for Dean to go after the truth as MM thankfully reported it.

The only thing I disagree with MM on is that he was harder and more blunt.

There is not one fact in error that was included in his film. Not one.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. fuck the DLC and if they have any more influence on the Dem Party........

I WILL LEAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY and influence as many others that i possibly can to do the same

[Q]

24. Given the widespread dislike of the DLC among Democrats...

...it may be that they will eventually lose their position of power within the party. But it will take refusing to vote for their candidates and contributing to their campaign coffers.

[joanski01]

26. I'm in.

I'm sure not contributing any more to their campaign coffers. I've had enough of them. They can get their money from the people who like illegal wars.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

28. NDOL's position: Moore is only a "THREAT" to the Democratic party

In that they believe: 1] He drives more people away from the party than he attracts. 2] He undermines credibility of effective Democratic criticisms of the GOP by tying them to unproven or completely disproven conspiracy theories. And 3] (worst of all) He's going to end up like another "Ralph Nader", who has been an outright disaster for the Democrats.

These are all debatable positions and it's obvious that reasonable people can disagree... (but it's equally obvious that "Q" is being disingenuous when he says the DLC is "implying Moore is a traitor").

Oh, and if you want to know the original source of the "anti-American" quote, it came from long before F-9/11. Take a look at this article in Blueprint:

In his latest book, Dude, Where's My Country?, for example, Moore peddles the absurd notion that terrorists are not really out to get us -- they're practically figments of our imaginations. Except, he adds, the terrorists who are right here at home, in our corporate and political midst. They are the "leaders seeking to terrorize us" and the "corporate mujahadeen" that run America, he writes. Furthermore, globalization -- tee shirts from China? data processing from India? -- is the main cause of terrorism.
...
But, says Moore, "there is no terrorist threat." In case we didn't get that, he says it again: "THERE ... IS ... NO ... TERRORIST ... THREAT!"
...
Clearly, the author's imaginative powers far outstrip his reporting or analytical skills. Consider, for example, his riff that bounds from showing a Bush family business connection with the bin Laden family (true) to the suggestion that 9/11 was not merely the work of 15 Saudi Arabian terrorists and four others, but the work of the Saudi Arabian Air Force (not true). Moore asks Bush:

"Who attacked the United States on September 11 -- a guy on dialysis from a cave in Afghanistan, or your friends, Saudi Arabia? ... You do not get this skilled at learning how to fly jumbo jets by being taught on a video game machine at some dipshit flight training school in Arizona. You learn to do this in the air force. Someone's air force. The Saudi Air Force? What if these weren't wacko terrorists, but military pilots who signed on to a suicide mission? What if they were doing this at the behest of either the Saudi government or certain disgruntled members of the Saudi royal family? ... Why do you refuse to say, 'Saudi Arabia attacked the United States!'?"

...
When Moore has his facts right -- on, say, the troubled state of U.S. public education -- he still undermines his message by presenting it in a shock-jock tone, like the Howard Stern of print. "A nation that not only churns out illiterate students BUT GOES OUT OF ITS WAY TO REMAIN IGNORANT AND STUPID should not be running the world ..."

Personally, I think there's a bit of give on both sides of the divide. I don't think Moore is quite the disaster Al From thinks he is - voters judge political entertainers and commentators differently than they do their elected representatives. But also, Mr. Moore could be considerably more effective if he started applying the same rigorous fact checking to his insinuations that he tries to do with his facts. He doesn't need to imply things that aren't true. Just telling the truth about the GOP is bad enough.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[tsuki]

34. Have you ever heard the right attack Ann Coulter, Rush

Limbaugh, Robert Novak? Please link pertinent sites.

[Q]

35. If the DLC thinks Moore is only a threat to the party...

...why call him 'anti-American' instead of 'anti-Democratic party'. Their comments aren't relevant to anything Moore has produced...they're simply out to demonize and discredit him. You don't need to try to explain what they're 'really' doing. We're quite familiar with these types of tactics since the RWingers have been using them against us for decades.

Why is an independent filmmaker dangerous to the DLC? Why haven't they said the same things about Limbaugh or Coulter? The fact is that he's dangerous to the DLC because he and others have exposed the SHAM which is the war on terror in Iraq. He's blowing their cover...that attacking Iraq has protected America and brought 'democracy' to the Iraqis.

Why is the DLC and the GOP Smear Machine making a concerted effort to trash Moore? One doesn't need to look any further than Iraq and the military budget for the answer.

Moore isn't a threat to the party. He's a threat to the DLC.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

52. Since I've called on Al From to step down from the DLC...

...because I think his strident positions against people like Moore hurts the credibility of centrists within the party, I'm not sure I'm exactly the person to address this. However, I'll give it a try:

Why is an independent filmmaker dangerous to the DLC? Why haven't they said the same things about Limbaugh or Coulter?

Uh... the DLC's major criticism of Moore is that he is a - and I'm quoting verbatim here - "left wing Rush Limbaugh". Obviously there is no love lost between the DLC and any of the GOP screechers. Go look at their website someday. It's filled with carefully crafted attacks on the GOP - hardly the stuff of the "GOP smear machine".

The fact is that he's dangerous to the DLC because he and others have exposed the SHAM which is the war on terror in Iraq.

That's not a fact - that's an opinion, and a dubious one at best. It's the soldiers that are exposing the SHAM of this war, not any extremist ranting that is perceived as politically motivated.

The fact is that 30% of Democrats were for overthrowing Saddam (just not the Bush screwups in the "failing to win the peace" part). And, while I wasn't one of those voters, I (and DLC) are realistic enough to understand that we won't win elections by driving those voters away from the Democratic party.

Finally, insofar as the comment "anti-American" is concerned, this is a relatively common phrase for over-the-top conspiracy theories and rhetoric. Don't believe me? Look at this sympathetic article in the Guardian:

I'm getting seriously worried about anti-Americanism. Anti-Americanism in America, that is. Here are just a few of the things that I've heard traveling through blue, ie liberal, America since George Bush won the election. "The truth is, they just are stupid." (A New Yorker, of people in the red, ie conservative, states.) "The snakes." "Fascism." "Christian fascism." "I wanted to make a film about a time when young Americans fought against fascism and not for it." (A producer, explaining why he commissioned a film about the Spanish civil war.)

If very liberal British citizens call these kinds of opinions "anti-American", it's hardly some horrible misuse of phraseology for the DLC to do so as well.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[Q]

54. Let's make a deal:

You help us kick the Bush* Gang's ass out of OUR government and then we can talk about the centrist agenda. And by kicking them out I don't mean voting them out. I mean that the DLC should stop appeasing the Bushies and join us in pushing for impeachment...or at the very least a unified voice demanding accountability.

Because right now the DLC looks like their complicit in treason and war crimes. It's crazy. Do the DLCers really want to be so closely associated with this despotic government?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

63. That's basically always been the DLC's idea...

...coming up with effective ways of getting the public to vote for Democrats. This means finding votes where they are, not where we want them to be - which again means appealing to Independents, conservative Democrats, and liberal Republicans. The Green/Kucinich wing of the party is already pretty much tapped out - there isn't some huge election-shifting number of voters that hold those views that aren't already voting against Bush and his Congressional cronies.

Now personally, I'm also of the opinion that some centrist Democrats are making a huge mistake by giving the veneer of bi-partisanship to Bush's proposal to destroy Social Security, for instance. (And they do deserve whatever primary challenges they get from that.) But I also can't help but note that the DLC is still largely right about what actually appeals to Independent voters, and what doesn't.

Impeachment, for instance, is a total no-go. Even if we had majorities in both chambers of Congress - which we don't - Americans simply hate the use of Impeachment, period. Voters rightly believe that they should be the ones to decide who is in government - not other politically motivated politicians. When the GOP really did impeach Clinton - even over an episode everyone considered embarrassing - the GOP suffered because of it in the next election cycle. We would too.

Something else that we can't afford to do is back down on insistence on fiscal discipline. The reason is fairly obvious: when the run-away GOP spending on military pork-barrel really damages our economy, voters will be looking for somebody with some economic credibility to bring some stability. That really wouldn't be a good time to go promising a whole bunch of new unpaid-for benefits or taxes (which voters hate). The GOP would scare the voters into believing we're worse.

I want something even worse for Bush than being "impeached" (and - of course, not convicted). I want him to be ineffectual - facing a majority Democratic House and/or Senate.

Finally, if you canvass to change voters' minds, you'll very quickly find that phrases like "Bush family evil empire", "treason and war crimes", "despotic government", and other inflammatory rhetoric, no matter how heartfelt, is not only unhelpful, it drives voters away. You have to bring people along slowly.


- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[TankLV]

58. How can he be a "left wing RL" when all RL does is lie and MM so far has

NEVER lied in anything he has produced?

The main difference is very simple:

Repukes lie - ALL of 'em.

Democrats tell the truth!

[Geek_Girl]

43. Love Him Hate Michael Has Shine

Some light on some very disturbing facts that the main stream media would not cover. As far as his theory on who was behind 9/11. It's just that a theory. and considering all the questions surrounding 9/11 I might say a plausible theory at that.

As long as the Neo cons the main stream media and the DLC continue to demonize Moore the more credibility he will have because it just makes his case all the more plausible. If the DLC is smart they'll keep their fat trap shut otherwise they face the risk of being lumped in with the Neo-cons and war profiteers that are driving this country into the ground.

[eridani]

49. Actually, in a sense there really isn't a terrorist threat--

--if 9/11 was preventable (which it was), that makes that kind of event way less threatening. Under Clinton, the perps of the first WTC attack were caught, and the Millenium attack prevented. So we really could deal with this shit if we'd put the resources into it that the DLC and neocons want to devote toward world conquest.

Also, notice that Saudi Air Force has a question mark after it, which most reasonable people will take to mean suggesting a hypothesis rather than stating a fact. I'm far more pissed off about the BFEE's refusal to crack down on Saudi financing of terrorists, and the deliberate assistance out of the country given to a Saudi resident who knew the date of the planned 9/11 attack well in advance. (MM is not enough of an intellectual heavyweight to lay out the complex set of facts behind that.)

[JNelson6563]

29. You are so right!

But of course there are plenty who cannot see it. Blind in one eye. can't see out of the other.

Ugh.

Julie

[genius]

30. It's time we kicked these DLC nutcases out of our party.

[Q]

31. Democrats have been treating the DLC like the crazy aunt in the attic...

...acting like there is nothing they can do about them and embarrassed to talk about them in polite company.

But make no mistake: The Neocons and the DLC 'new' Dems are in this together. The Neocons working us from the outside and the Neodems from the inside.

[ElectroPrincess]

36. Yeah, I though Donna Brazille and Bay Bucannan were

very accommodating with each other. Of course Bay's arguments are always strong, but Donna plays such a good figurative "punching bag" as well as "straight woman." Yes, the DLC seemingly loves to kiss republican butt, but today, it was extra chummy. <barf!> :P

[Geek_Girl]

37. I've Pretty Much came to the same conclusion

But I can't help but think most of the Democratic leadership in Washington has very strong ties to the DLC. Maybe it would be helpful if we had a list of Democratic Congressman, and Senators that are strongly affiliated and those that are less affiliated so I know who I should and should not support and give my money to in '06.

[Q]

39. Study the DLC website...

...at http://www.ndol.org/index.cfm

The list of members isn't as obvious as it used to be...but with enough research you can find what you need...along with a list of state senators and local elected officials.

[charlie]

40. Member list

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1

[Q]

41. Thanks Charlie...

...but by no means is this list complete. It doesn't include those the DLC supports in others ways or 'unofficial' members.

Jim Aldinger, Council Member, Manhattan Beach CA

Tom Allen, U.S. Representative, ME

Dede Alpert, State Senator, CA

Phil Angelides, State Treasurer, CA

Patrice Arent, State Senator, UT

David Aronberg, State Senator, FL

Toni Atkins, City Councilmember, San Diego CA

Loranne Ausley, State Representative, FL

Joe Baca, U.S. Representative, CA

Janice Bacon, Morgan County Commissioner, IN

Brian Baird, U.S. Representative, WA

Thurbert Baker, State Attorney General, GA

Brenda Barger, Mayor, Watertown, SD

Gonzalo Barrientos, State Senator, TX

Viola Baskerville, State Delegate, VA

Max Baucus, U.S. Senator, MT

Evan Bayh, U.S. Senator, IN

Chris Beck, State Representative, OR

Ralph Becker, State Representative, UT

Chris Bell, U.S. Representative, TX

Marshall Bennett, State Treasurer, MS

James Bennett, City Council, St. Petersberg FL

Shelley Berkley, U.S. Representative, NV

Ethan Berkowitz, House Democratic Leader, AK

Marion Berry, U.S. Representative, AR

Barbara Blanchard, County Legislator, Tompkins County NY

Patrica M. Blevins, State Senator, DE

Marty Block, Community College Trustee, San Diego CA

Earl Blumenauer, U.S. Representative, OR

Alice Borodkin, State Representative, CO

Lisa Boscola, State Senator, PA

Betty Boyd, State Representative, CO

David Braddock, State Representative, OK

Daniel Brady, State Senator, OH

Zach Brandon, City Councilmember, Madison WI

John Breaux, U.S. Senator, LA

Bob Brink, Delegate, VA

John Y. Brown, Secretary of State, KY

Matt Brown, Secretary of State, RI

Don Brown, Jr., City Councilman, Louisville, CO

Bob Buckhorn, City Councilman, Tampa, FL

Polly Bukta, State Representative, IA

Chuck Burris, Mayor, Stone Mountain, GA

Cruz M. Bustamante, Lieutenant Governor, CA

Robert Butkin, State Treasurer, OK

Thomas Campbell, State Delegate, WV

Jane Campbell, Mayor, Cleveland OH

Roberto Canchola, Superintendent of Schools, Santa Cruz Co., AZ

Maria Cantwell, U.S. Senator, WA

Jaime Capelo, Jr., State Representative, TX

Lois Capps, U.S. Representative, CA

Dennis Cardoza, U.S. Representative, CA

Tom Carper, U.S. Senator, DE

Adolfo Carrion, Borough President, Bronx NY

Jo Carson, State Representative, AR

Brad Carson, U.S. Representative, OK

Karen R. Carter, State Representative, LA

Ed Case, U.S. Representative, HI

A.B. "Ben" Chandler, Attorney General, KY

Nancy Chard, State Senator, VT

Ken Cheuvront, State Senator, AZ

Carol Chumney, State Representative, TN

Ken Clark, State Representative, AZ

Paul Clark, Town Supervisor, West Seneca NY

Hillary Clinton, U.S. Senator, NY

Martha Coakley, District Attorney, Middlesex County MA

Steve Cohn, City Councilmember, Sacramento CA

Michael Coleman, Mayor, Columbus, OH

Fran Coleman, State Representative, CO

Patrick Colwell, State House Majority Leader, ME

Kathleen Connell, State Controller, CA

Kent Conrad, U.S. Senator, ND

Christopher Coons, Council President, New Castle Co., DE

Jim Cooper, U.S. Representative, TN

Roy A. Cooper III, Attorney General, NC

Lou Correa, State Assembly Member, CA

Dolores Coulter, Mayor, Barnegat Township NJ

Cathy Cox, Secretary of State, GA

Bud Cramer, U.S. Representative, AL

Joseph Crowley, U.S. Representative, NY

Chris Cummiskey, State Senate Assistant Leader , AZ

Don Cunningham, Secretary, Department of General Services, PA

J. Joseph Curran, Attorney General, MD

Lou D'Allesandro, State Senator, NH

Richard D'Amato, State Delegate, MD

Ruth Damsker, County Commissioner, Montgomery Co., PA

Preston Daniels, Mayor, Des Moines IA

Jim Davis, U.S. Representative, FL

Susan Davis, U.S. Representative, CA

Artur Davis, U.S. Representative, AL

Nadia Davis, School Board Vice President, Santa Ana, CA

Ray Davis, Registrar, Stafford County VA

Ryan Deckert, State Senator, OR

Rocky Delgadillo, City Attorney, Los Angeles, CA

Peter Derby, Trustee, Irvington NY

Peter Deutsch, U.S. Representative, FL

Michael Diven, State Representative, PA

Christopher Dodd, U.S. Senator, CT

Cal Dooley, U.S. Representative, CA

Jim Doyle, Governor, WI

Doug Duncan, County Executive, Montgomery County MD

Joseph Dunn, State Senator, CA

Michael Easley, Governor, NC

Doug Echols, Mayor, Rock Hill SC

W.A. Drew Edmondson, Attorney General, OK

John Edwards, U.S. Senator, NC

Rahm Emanuel, U.S. Representative, IL

Anna Eshoo, U.S. Representative, CA

Bob Etheridge, U.S. Representative, NC

Robert Faucheux, State Representative, LA

Dianne Feinstein, U.S. Senator, CA

John Fernandez, Mayor, Bloomington IN

Barry R. Finegold, State Representative, MA

Eric Fingerhut, State Senator, OH

Michael Finifter, State Delegate, MD

Joan Fitz-Gerald, State Senator, CO

Michael Fitzgerald, State Treasurer, IA

Jamie Fleet, City Councilman, Gettysburg PA

Elizabeth G. Flores, Mayor, Laredo, TX

Dean Florez, State Assemblymember, CA

Romanie Foege, State Representative, IA

Harold Ford, Jr. , U.S. Representative, TN

Dan Frankel, State Representative, PA

Shirley Franklin, Mayor, Atlanta GA

John A. Fritchey, State Representative, IL

Douglas F. Gansler, State's Attorney for Montgomery Co., MD

Michael Garcia, State Representative, CO

Jim D. Garner, State Representative, KS

Steven A. Geller, State Senator, FL

Richard Gephardt, U.S. Representative, MO

Allen Jay Gerson, Council Member, New York City NY

Gabrielle Giffords, State Senator, AZ

Glen D. Gilmore, Mayor, Hamilton NJ

Michael Golden, Borough Council Member, Jenkintown PA

Jeff Gombosky, State Representative, WA

Ron Gonzales, Mayor, San Jose, CA

Charles Gonzalez, U.S. Representative, TX

Phil Gordon, City Councilman, Phoenix, AZ

Ken Gordon, State Senator, CO

Bob Graham, U.S. Senator, FL

Jennifer Granholm, Governor, MI

Darlene Green, City Comptroller, St. Louis, MO

Ron Greenstein, State Representative, FL

James S. Gregory, City Councilman, Bethlehem, PA

Wendy Greuel, City Council, Los Angeles CA

Daniel Grimes, City Council, Goshen IN

Peter C. Groff, State Representative, CO

Daniel Grossman, State Senator, CO

Ken Guin, Majority Leader, AL

Bob Hagedorn, State Senator, CO

Karen Hale, State Senator, UT

DeAnna Hanna, State Senator, CO

Michael J. Hare, Council Member, Wilmington DE

Jane Harman, U.S. Representative, CA

Jeff Harris, State Representative, MO

Patrick Henry Hays, Mayor, North Little Rock, AR

Martin J. Heft, First Selectman, Chester CT

Robert Henriquez, State Representative, FL

Leigh Herington, Senate Democratic Leader, OH

Robert M. Hertzberg, State Assembly Speaker, CA

Thomas Hickner, County Executive, Bay County, MI

Richard Hildreth, Mayor, Pacific WA

Baron Hill, U.S. Representative, IN

Debra Hilstrom, State Representative, MN

Ruben Hinojosa, U.S. Representative, TX

Joseph Hoeffel, U.S. Representative, PA

Bob Holden, Governor, MO

Rush Holt, U.S. Representative, NJ

Helen Holton, City Council Member, Baltimore, MD

Mike Honda, U.S. Representative, CA

Darlene Hooley, U.S. Representative, OR

Sam Hoyt, State Assemblymember, NY

Dave Hunt, State Representative, OR

Ross Hunter, State Representative, WA

Geri Huser, State Representative, IA

Daniel Hynes, State Comptroller, IL

Jay Inslee, U.S. Representative, WA

Thomas Irvin, Commissioner of Agriculture, GA

Steve Israel, U.S. Representative, NY

Robert Jackson, State Senator, KY

Michael Jackson, State Representative, LA

Gilda Z. Jacobs, State Senator, MI

Wendy Jaquet, State House Minority Leader, ID

Nicholas Jellins, Mayor, Menlo Park, CA

Douglas Jennings Jr., House Democratic Leader, SC

Chris John, U.S. Representative, LA

Tim Johnson, U.S. Senator, SD

Robin Johnson, Alderman, Monmouth IL

Steven B. Jones, State Representative, AR

Donald Jones, Council Member, Jefferson Parish LA

Patty Judge, Secretary of Agriculture, IA

Charlie Justice, State Representative, FL

Tim Kaine, Lt. Governor, VA

Vera Katz, Mayor, Portland, OR

Steve Kelley, Senate Majority Whip, MN

Randy Kelly, Mayor, St. Paul, MN

Joseph E. Kernan, Governor, IN

John Kerry, U.S. Senator, MA

Lynn Kessler, State House Democratic Leader, WA

Marjorie L. Kilkelly, State Senator, ME

Kwame Kilpatrick, Mayor, Detroit, MI

Ron Kind, U.S. Representative, WI

Victor King, Trustee, Glendale, CA

Herb Kohl, U.S. Senator, WI

Richard Kriseman, City Councilman, St. Petersburg, FL

Annie Kuether, State Representative, KS

Rosalind Kurita, State Senator, TN

Eric LaFleur, State Representative, LA

Nick Lampson, U.S. Representative, TX

Mary Landrieu, U.S. Senator, LA

Leah Landrum Taylor, Assistant Minority Leader, AZ

Jim Langevin, U.S. Representative, RI

Patricia Lantz, State Representative, WA

Peter Larkin, State Representative, MA

Rick Larsen, U.S. Representative, WA

John Larson, U.S. Representative, CT

David Lemoine, State Representative, ME

Joe Lieberman, U.S. Senator, CT

Blanche Lincoln, U.S. Senator, AR

Duane E. Little, Assessor, Shoshone Co., ID

Gary Locke, Governor, WA

Zoe Lofgren, U. S. Representative, CA

Charles Love, School Board Chairman, Hamilton Co., TN

Ken Lucas, U.S. Representative, KY

Frana Araujo Mace, State Representative, CO

Alice Madden, State Representative, CO

Scott C. Maddox, Mayor, Tallahassee, FL

Louis Magazzu, Freeholder, Cumberland County NJ

Denise Majette, U.S. Representative, GA

Dannel P. Malloy, Mayor, Stamford, CT

Carolyn Maloney, U.S. Representative, NY

Matthew Mangino, District Attorney, Lawrence Co., PA

Jennifer Mann, State Representative, PA

Steve Marchand, City Councilman, Portsmouth NH

Jack Markell, State Treasurer, DE

Lisa Tessier Marrache, State Representative, ME

Rosemary Marshall, State Representative, CO

Jim Matheson, U.S. Representative, UT

Bob Matsui, U.S. Representative, CA

Barbara Matthews, Assembly Member, Tracy CA

H. Carl McCall, State Comptroller, NY

Carolyn McCarthy, U.S. Representative, NY

Kevin McCarthy, State Representative, IL

Kevin McCarthy, State Representative, IA

Karen McCarthy, U.S. Representative, MO

Kenneth McClintock, State Senator, PR

Bill McConico, State Representative, MI

Matt McCoy, State Senator, IA

Sharon McDonald, Commissioner of Revenue, Norfolk, VA

Jim McGreevey, Governor, NJ

Mike McIntyre, U.S. Representative, NC

Gregory Meeks, U.S. Representative, NY

Jules Mermelstein, Township Commissioner, Upper Dublin, PA

Dolores Mertz, State Representative, IA

Michael Michaud, U.S. Representative, ME

Juanita Millender-McDonald, U.S. Representative, CA

Jonathan Miller, State Treasurer, KY

Carl Miller, State Representative, CO

Zell Miller, U.S. Senator, GA

Tom Miller, Attorney General, IA

Brad Miller, U.S. Representative, NC

Doug Milliken, Treasurer, Centennial CO

Ruth Ann Minner, Governor, DE

Keiffer Mitchell, Jr., City Councilman, Baltimore, MD

Dennis Moore, U.S. Representative, KS

Richard H. Moore, State Treasurer, NC

Richard Moore, State Senator, MA

Mike Moore, Attorney General, MS

Jim Moran, U.S. Representative, VA

John Morrison, State Auditor, MT

Eva Moskowitz, City Council Member, New York City, NY

Charles A. Murphy, State Representative, MA

Pat Murphy, State Representative, IA

Ed Murray, State Representative, WA

Therese Murray, State Senator, MA

Ronnie Musgrove, Governor, MS

George Nakano, State Assembly Member, CA

Janet Napolitano, Governor, AZ

Grace Napolitano, U.S. Representative, CA

Bill Nelson, U.S. Senator, FL

Ben Nelson, U.S. Senator, NE

Gavin C. Newsom, Board of Supervisors, San Francisco CA

Alice Nichol, State Senator, CO

John O. Norquist, Mayor, Milwaukee, WI

Michael Nutter, City Councilman, Philadelphia, PA

Martin O'Malley, Mayor, Baltimore, MD

Michael A. O'Pake, State Senator, PA

Norman Oliver, City Councilman, Wilmington, DE

Marc R. Pacheco, State Senator, MA

Alex Padilla, City Councilman, Los Angeles, CA

Alfred Park, State Representative, NM

Sally Pederson, Lieutenant Governor, IA

William Peduto, City Councilmember, Pittsburgh PA

David Pepper, City Council, Cincinnati OH

Beverly Perdue, Lieutenant Governor, NC

Eddie Perez, Mayor, Hartford CT

Ed Perlmutter, State Senator, CO

Scott Peters, City Councilman, San Diego, CA

Bart Peterson, Mayor, Indianapolis IN

Janet Peterson, State Representative, IA

Anthony Petrucci, County Commissioner, Dauphin Co., PA

Terry Phillips, State Senator, CO

Gregory Pitoniak, Mayor, Taylor, MI

Jeffrey Plale, State Senator, WI

Tom Plant, State Representative, CO

Margaret Planton, Mayor, Chillicothe, OH

Charles Potter Jr., Council Member, Wilmington DE

Ray Powell, Commissioner of Public Lands, NM

Debra Powell, Mayor, East St. Louis, IL

David Price, U.S. Representative, NC

Mark Pryor, U.S. Senator, AR

Brian Quirk, State Representative, IA

David Ragucci, Mayor, Everett, MA

Aaron Reardon, Snohomish County Executive, WA

Stephen Reed, Mayor, Harrisburg, PA

Eric Miller Reeves, State Senator, NC

Peggy Reeves, State Senator, CO

Ed Rendell, Governor, PA

Ann H. Rest, State Senator, MN

Silvestre Reyes, U.S. Representative, TX

Joe Rice, Mayor, Glendale, CO

Graham Richard, Mayor, Fort Wayne, IN

John Richardson, State Representative, ME

Elaine Richardson, State Senator, AZ

Bill Richardson, Governor, NM

John Riggs IV, State Senator, AR

Joe Riley, Mayor, Charleston, SC

Stacy J. Ritter, State Representative, FL

Carroll G. Robinson, City Councilman, Houston, TX

Andrew Romanoff, State Representative,, CO

T.J. Rooney, State Representative, PA

Samuel Rosenberg, State Delegate, MD

Mike Ross, U.S. Representative, AR

Steve Rothman, U.S. Representative, NJ

Laura Ruderman, State Representative, WA

John Ryan, Council Member, Barnegat Township NJ

Timothy J. Ryan, State Senator, OH

Ken Salazar, Attorney General, CO

Loretta Sanchez, U.S. Representative, CA

Linda Sanchez, U.S. Representative, CA

Sharon Sanders Brooks, State Representative, MO

Max Sandlin, U.S. Representative, TX

M. Susan Savage, Mayor, Tulsa, OK

Adam B. Schiff, U.S. Representative, CA

Jefferey Schoenberg, State Senator, IL

Dan Schooff, State Assembly Member, WI

Allyson Y. Schwartz, State Senator, PA

Timothy Scott, Council Member, Carlisle Borough PA

David Scott, U.S. Representative, GA

Derrick Seaver, State Representative, OH

Kathleen Gilligan Sebelius, Governor, KS

Eugene M. Sellers, Vermillion Parish Engineer, Lafayette, LA

James Shapiro, City Representative, Stamford, CT

Brad Sherman, U.S. Representative, CA

Ron Sims, County Executive, King County, WA

Adam Smith, U.S. Representative, WA

James Smith, House Democratic Leader, SC

Malcolm A. Smith, State Senator, NY

Rod Smith, State Senator, FL

Tyrone Smith, Water Basin Municipal Water District Board Member, Carson CA

Vic Snyder, U.S. Representative, AR

Eleanor Sobel, State Representative, FL

Andrew Spano, County Executive, Westchester Co., NY

Carol Spielman, County Board Member, Lake County IL

Eliot Spitzer, Attorney General, NY

John Spratt, U.S. Representative, SC

Debbie Stabenow, U.S. Senator, MI

Greg Stanton, City Councilman, Phoenix, AZ

Charles Stenholm, U.S. Representative, TX

Gregory R. Stevens, State Representative, IA

Larry Stone, Assessor, Santa Clara County, CA

Bart Stupak, U.S. Representative, MI

Peter Sullivan, State Representative, NH

Christopher Travis Swanson, Kern County School Board Member, Tehachapi, CA

Daryl Sweeney, Mayor, Carson, CA

Harvey D. Tallackson, State Senator, ND

John Tanner, U.S. Representative, TN

Abel J. Tapia, State Representative, CO

Ellen Tauscher, U.S. Representative, CA

Charleta B. Tavares, City Council Member, Columbus, OH

Mark Taylor, Lieutenant Governor, GA

Doug Teper, State Representative, GA

Paul Tessier, State Representative, ME

Mike Thompson, U.S. Representative, CA

William C. Thompson Jr., Comptroller, New York City NY

Michael L. Thurmond, State Labor Commissioner, GA

Lois Tochtrop, State Representative, CO

Charles F. Tooley, Mayor, Billings, MT

Jim Turner, U.S. Representative, TX

Tom Udall, U.S. Representative, NM

John Unger II, State Senator, WV

George Van Til, Surveyor, Lake County IN

Tracy Vance, Vice Chairman, Lee Co., IA

Juan Vargas, State Assemblymember, CA

Jennifer Veiga, State Representative, CO

Val Vigil, State Representative, CO

Michael Vilarreal, State Representative, TX

Tom Vilsack, Governor, IA

Val D. Vincent, State Representative, VT

Peter Voros, Mayor, Pittsgrove Township NJ

Lewis J. Wallace, State Representative, CT

Mark Warner, Governor, VA

Steven Warnstadt, State Representative, IA

Jonathan Weinzapfel, State Representative, IN

Jack Weiss, City Council, Los Angeles CA

Peggy M. Welch, State Representative, IN

Patrick D. Welch, State Senator, IL

Steve Westly, State Controller, CA

Robert Wexler, U.S. Representative, FL

Michael J. Wildes, Mayor, Englewood NJ

Anthony Williams, Mayor, Washington, DC

J.D. Williams, State Controller, ID

Earnest Williams, City Councilman, St. Petersburg, FL

Constance Williams, State Senator, PA

Suzanne Williams, State Representative, CO

Sue Windels, State Senator, CO

Philip Wise, State Representative, IA

Cathy Woolard, Council President, Atlanta GA

David Wu, U.S. Representative, OR

David Yassky, City Councilmember, Brooklyn NY

Caprice Young, President of the Board of LAUSD, Los Angeles CA

[charlie]

42. Gotta watch for poaching, too

Remember, Obama was on that list until he told them to remove his name.

[Radio-Active]

59. Zell Miller, U.S. Senator, GA

Zell's on the DLC?

I guess he's the future of the party.

[Geek_Girl]

44. Thanks for the List

:yourock:

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Disturbed]

45. Dissin' Mike for no reason?

This is the reason.

"Except the DLC gets almost all their funding from big corporations. And since the big corps wanted this war and support PNAC, Al From and Ralph Reed (who are pretty much the DLC leadership) are indeed trying to discredit ANYONE who opposes this war. That's why they politically assassinated Dean's campaign. That's why Lieberman spent a majority of his campaign tearing down Dean. That's the real reason why Sen. Kerry was afraid to vote against the IWR. He knew that these turncoats would go after him, big time, if he pushed too hard against the DLC's agenda."

A majority of Dems voted for this illegal war on Iraq and still support it.

[PinkPantherChick]

46. Anybody think we should push King George to give the

Medal of Freedom to MM and do it with a SMILE. A big old cheese eating SMILE............?

[Sugarbleus]

47. Don't forget Peter Beinart, "New Republic" magazine...

He preaches this crap also. Calls himself a "liberal" but promotes republican lite policies; "war on terror", globalism, Anti-UN, pro American military might, "spreading democracy" to "make the world safer", anti redistribution,.......etc...

Guess which dem candidates/leaders (past and present) agree with this stuff??

[Q]

50. I've noticed...

...that other threads are popping up that make light of the concerns Democrats have about the DLC. Fair enough...except that it's no conspiracy theory that they have undue influence over the party and pretty much called the shots in orchestrating the nomination and campaign of the last three presidents. It has been reported by the Black Commentator that they and the Kerry 'Campaign' wrote nearly the entire 2004 Dem Platform.

It's bad enough that they're steering the party to the right...but their appeasement and complicity with the Bush* Regime regarding transparent fraud, corruption, aggressive wars and destruction of the 'New Deal' have opened the eyes of many Democrats who are just now learning of their existence.

What I find strange is that the DLCers actually expect no resistance from Democrats who were raised believing that THEY ARE the party of the people. Its a shock to their sensibilities to learn that the direction the 'new' Democrats would take us is the exact opposite of that: another party beholden to the wealthy and corporations.

Those of us who don't want to 'go there' are being given the same choices the Bushie Neocons give to 'loyal' Republicans: you're either with us or against us. Either follow or get out of the party if you don't like the 'new' rules'.

And now they're going after Moore. It's telling that his films piss off the 'conservatives' in both the Republican and Democratic parties. What was in F911 that frightened them so? Was it the scene where no Democratic Senator would stand up with the Democratic Black Caucus and fight for civil rights? Was it Bush* reading to children as America was under attack? The sheep-like way the party fell into line after 911? Or was it scenes that showed that the Bush* Junta attacked Iraq for no reason beyond the designs of the PNAC and to the benefit of the energy/defense industries?

Moore is filling a vacuum left when the free press decided to go 'corporate' and the bottom line became getting part of the loot instead of the best interests of the people.

[gcole]

51. kick

n/t

[Zhade]

53. KICK

kick

[info being]

55. Both major parties are parties of the status quo

Michael Moore is a threat to both of them. My beliefs are also opposed to both of them when it comes down to it.

[robbedvoter]

56. I think he is more of a threat for bringing the damned poor into this

The democrats only want to represent the middle class and MM is messing the party by bringing the unwashed on their beautiful white carpets.

[Arkana]

60. Well, with the truth being so uncool right now, what did you expect?

I'm just glad Moore isn't scared of them. Great man, Mike Moore.

[KoKo]

61. Yes, "Q" and thanks for saying it. There's a mighty effort out there and

by some here on DU to discredit Moore. But, I know three people who voted for Kerry who would never have done it without Moore's movie. One of them (A Southern Fundie) became so frantic about 9/11 he was on Moore's site trying to ask him if he could download a copy to send to his Freeper GA relatives.

NO ONE should underestimate what Michael Moore did for us...even offering his video for free rentals close to the election. He didn't need to do this...he didn't need to pull his movie out of Oscar contender for us. But, he did.

The trashing going on shows what a terrible fix we are in when DLC joins the Freep Trash in going after him. He's a tough guy..and will handle it...but it doesn't excuse what we are seeing and how he's being treated.

[Zhade]

65. It's a ridiculous assertion, anyway.

The smear doesn't even make sense - how is Moore "un-American"? Did he send money to al Qaeda? Did he expressly wish for the death of America? Did he pick up a gun and fire at U.S. troops in Iraq?

Of course not. He made a movie that, while imperfect, exposed a lot of uninformed voters to the reality of how Americans were lied into an illegal war. And he happened to show some Dems as the enablers they are.

And the funny thing is, unlike some of us who feel that those Dems who voted for the IWR WANTED war, he does it gently, giving all the benefit of the doubt in the world that maybe the Dems were scared, confused, railroaded into bad decisions. For this, From and company want to burn him and excise him from public discourse.

But then, Will Marshall actually IS guilty of supporting treason, IMHO, because he endorsed PNAC views, and PNAC is about as treasonous as you can get - especially with all the PNACers currently in power.

[KoKo]

68. And, we can thank him for showing Conyers and Waters exposeing FLA

2000 which put the thought out there that there just might have been "something rotten about FLA" and now Conyers has visibility which links back to that movie in folks minds whether they agreed with Moore or like the Freeps hate him. That's why Moore is being targeted the most, maybe. Because they know we are on the trail of vote fraud back to 2000.

They've gotta descredit Moore because of Conyers in that movie and THE VOTE... DLC must have something to hide, too for allowing Will Marshall to say what he did....

[Zhade]

69. Like I said, Marshall is at least guilty of supporting treason.

Good upstanding Americans dedicated to freedom and democracy DON'T endorse PNAC views, IMIO.

[Tinoire]

64. Excellent post/thread Q

:thumbsup:

This is how we will re-take our party. By exposing their lies and machinations.

I'm no great fan of Moore's 9-11 from an accuracy point of view because he was a little too eager to lay the entire blame at the feet of the Saudis, Bush and Carlyle without touching the most important reason we're in this current impasse but let's pass on that. His film was a cinematographic feat and it did indeed expose this war for the lie it is. It also educated a lot of uninformed people. Kudos to him for that and SHAME on the DLC, the DNC and the establishment Dems for needing to distance themselves from someone who, by himself, told more truth in 2 hours than most of them put together have told in the last 25 years!

Thank you Q. People like you are the future of progress.

[Q]

67. I'm glad he covered the Saudi Connection though...

...because it has to be one of the most under-reported stories of the last decade. I mean...how friggin obvious can it get? Bin Laden (the supposed mastermind) and a majority of the hijackers were from SAUDI ARABIA. So Bush* attacks Saddam and occupies Iraq. There's something strangely disconnected about that scenario.

9-11 is THE pivotal issue. Without 9-11 Bush* had nothing. He was polling in the 40s before that day, Americans thought he was a 'bastard child usurper' and he wasn't getting any cooperation from congress. Suddenly, he was a 'wartime president' with a 'mandate'.

It was indeed Bush's* Pearl Harbor.

But the most horrible thing about all of this is that the Democrats have for the most part rubber stamped his agenda. This is unforgivable and has nothing to do with left, right or the middle. There's no other way to honestly put it: it's selling out the American people.

I suppose many on the right-center-left were pissed off because this was pointed out in 9F911 as Moore made both sides responsible for what has happened since.

Take care.



Young people are the future of progress...but it looks like they're going to need a little PUSH.

[Q]

70. More Peter Beinart Propaganda...

Yet another hit and run piece on Moore....suggesting that Moore is to 'totalitarian Isam' as Wallace was to 'communism'. Beinart assures his readers that Moore and 'liberals' are hurting the war on terror by blaming the Carlyle Group instead of 'Saudi extremists'.

I'm beginning to wonder if Beinart and his DLC kind have ever actually seen F911? The movie clearly shows that there is a threat of terrorism...but the war on terrorism ISN'T being fought in Iraq and that it's groups like Carlyle and the Saudi Royals who sponsor terrorists or profit from terrorism.

-----------

AN ARGUMENT FOR A NEW LIBERALISM.
A Fighting Faith
by Peter Beinart

Post date 12.02.04 | Issue date 12.13.04

SNIP: On health care, gay rights, and the environment, there is a positive vision, articulated with passion. But there is little liberal passion to win the struggle against Al Qaeda--even though totalitarian Islam has killed thousands of Americans and aims to kill millions; and even though, if it gained power, its efforts to force every aspect of life into conformity with a barbaric interpretation of Islam would reign terror upon women, religious minorities, and anyone in the Muslim world with a thirst for modernity or freedom.

SNIP: Michael Moore views totalitarian Islam the way Wallace viewed communism: As a phantom, a ruse employed by the only enemies that matter, those on the right. Saudi extremists may have brought down the Twin Towers, but the real menace is the Carlyle Group. Today, most liberals naïvely consider Moore a useful ally, a bomb-thrower against a right-wing that deserves to be torched. What they do not understand is that his real casualties are on the decent left.

SNIP: When Moore opposes the war against the Taliban, he casts doubt upon the sincerity of liberals who say they opposed the Iraq war because they wanted to win in Afghanistan first. When Moore says terrorism should be no greater a national concern than car accidents or pneumonia, he makes it harder for liberals to claim that their belief in civil liberties does not imply a diminished vigilance against Al Qaeda.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1440676

Original story at: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=whKP5U%2BbbaxbirV9FQhQuh%3D%3D

[robbedvoter]

73. TNR endorsed Joementum

[bush_is_wacko]

74. Funny...

I thought "the war on terrorism" has done great damage to the credibility of their "war on terrorism." Michael Moore is just a guy with a camera! I didn't need MM movie to tell me this administration was EVIL to the very core.

The DLC is part of the "system." It is incumbant on the citizens of a country to work to fix the system that has broken down. I now understand fully why people are leaving this country. I am still working up to that kind of extreme measure. If the system no longer has us peons to work our fingers to the bone so they can make oodles and oodles of money, the system will collapse in on itself. Leaving this country and doing the very opposite fo what we have been doing to support the system, may indeed be the only answer. Don't "Buy American" anymore. Buy Canadian. I realize American owned factories are everywhere, but we might be able to come up with a comprehensible list of foriegn owned companies that we could support rather than American greed and corruption.

[mattclearing]

75. I just posted this in another thread, and it will be my standard response

to anything having to do with the DLC. Moore is dead-on, and the more people start talking like him and refuting the lies of the RNC/DLC/MSM coalition, the better off we all will be. Moore needs back-up, not censorship...

The sooner people realize that the DLC is not our friend, the better off we all will be.

They are aligning the goals of the Democratic Party with the goals of the Republican Party: Corporatism at the expense of people.

Once the transformation the DLC intends is complete, the Democratic Party will never win an election again, with its natural base completely demoralized and without a viable home.

Republicans will win, and Al From will be happy.

[Pepperbelly]

76. What character assasination of Michael Moore by the DLC? nt

[Q]

77. Calling someone 'anti-American' could be considered a smear...

...and so could characterizing F911 and Moore's comments about Iraq and the 'war on terror' as appeasing terrorists. (Paraphrased)

I guess Moore has replaced Clinton as the RWing's favorite scapegoat and heretic. More troubling is that the RWing of the Democratic party has joined them in their demonization.

I haven't heard any of these experts and pundits demonize Limbaugh this way. Perhaps it's because he is FOR the Bush* Doctrine of Aggressive war?

[Pepperbelly]

78. Are you talking about the article From has at the DLC website?

I hope you have something else. In that article, From mentions Moore in one declarative sentence that did not call him any names and was mentioned in another sentence in passing. If you have a link to this, I would like to read what he said.

[Donna Zen]

79. What's Moore Got To Do With It?

Long Post and a repost:

While the “know it alls” inside the beltway and on both sides of the aisle are busy holiday shopping for a Michael Moore doll that they can fill up with pins, does anyone pause and ask themselves why? Well, the Republicans will tell you that Moore’s film, F/911 is filled with lies by rabid bush haters. The Democrats, especially those of the DLC, claim that any association with Michael Moore will cause the entire country to turn against the party. In fact, From and his various spokes people are just sure that Michael Moore brought on John Kerry’s loss on November 2nd. What’s the truth in all of this? Well, one thing does stand out, both the Republicans and the Democrats are out to bring down Michael Moore; but what’s he got to do with it?

Since the F/911's blockbuster summer opening, the Republican’s and their echo chamber, the main stream media, have taken every opportunity to scream about the film’s pack of lies. The curious, nagging omission from their televised rants is any effort to specifically list all of those lies. It’s hard work; with the film being mostly documentary footage without any reenactments, one just can’t say that the captured events never happened. Wolfowitz really does lick his comb, and yes, it’s sad but true. As far as the film’s bias is concerned, Moore referred to his work as a “polemic” not a documentary. If the Republicans were surprised to learn that Michael Moore doesn’t like George Bush, then they know now. They should also know, that Moore hired a team of fact checkers, a requirement that has never been duplicated by Rush Limbaugh or his quislings. In short, there was nothing in the film that many people, myself included, didn’t already know.

Maybe the Republicans can spare a few snarls for Kevin Phillips, since he came to many of the same conclusions about Bush’s relationship with the Saudis.

More likely the Republicans shout about some lies, ironically a lie in itself, because the real reasons that they object to Moore’s film might not make the best sound bite: the film makes them look bad and they want Moore to never make another film again. After all, defending “free speech” has never been a Republican strong suit, just ask Joseph McCarthy.

As for the Democrats and their distancing act, well, their reasoning certainly needs some scrutiny. I mean, what’s Moore got to do with losing at the polls in 2004? And how can you distance yourself from a man who voted Green in 2000? Moore’s Bush bashing was intended, and in all likelihood succeeded in bringing out people to vote for John Kerry. Democrats didn’t spend a dime on Moore’s “Slacker Tour” that encouraged a young generation to register and vote. Distancing yourselves from someone who has kept his distance is going to be very tricky. Does anyone know if Moore is a Democrat?

I went to see F/911 and took careful note of the audience. Strange as it may seem, the theater was filled with people who looked like average Americans. The kind who go to work everyday, hope to keep their health insurance, and take their responsibilities seriously. I watched them laugh and cry and when the film was over, applaud.

Anyway, since the world is still waiting for all of the people who served with Bush in Alabama to step forward, or at least one of them, the point goes to Moore.

Instead of distancing themselves from the Michael Moore’s of America, perhaps the Democrats would do themselves and our democracy a favor by cozying up to all of the voters who stood in line for hours and failed in their effort to get to vote. Or maybe the Democrats should take some time out from scapgoating film makers and ponder the possibility that a vote cast on a computer without a paper trail doesn’t meet the standard of verifiability that underpins the concept of our democracy. Why ruin Moore when he is not your opponent and your opponent is counting the votes?

Concentrating the Democratic leadership’s focus on Moore may make them feel better since it relieves them of taking the responsibility of running a campaign without a rapid response team and a clear message. Sluffing off the blame works for George Bush and company, it may work for the DNC/DLC, but I wouldn't bet good money it. It’s time to look into the mirror and ask the tough questions:

• what do we stand for;

• will we pay attention to the base or will we continue to think of them as an alien
“cash cow;”

• how long will they stand for that;

• how can we restore an honest press in America;

• when we call out George Bush for this disastrous war;

• when will we realize that bad policy that serves the greedy robs the citizens of the
country;

• and when will we acknowlege that American ideals are at the bottom of a slippery
slope and we need to turn that around?

If the Democrats still have time to bash Moore and solve those problems, well, all I can say is “careful what you wish for” his next film may focus on you.