just watched my idiot asshole relative on Hannity & Colmes and I'm ashamed

[Syrinx]

Gerald Allen, Alabama legislator, who wants to ban all gay-related books and plays and movies.

He has always been nice to me. But the asshole is insane. And I want to apologize for him. He came before me however.

Not all Alabama people are like him. And I consider it my personal duty to do every thing I can to remove him from power.

[DireStrike]

1. Doesn't the bible have gays in it?

Especially if it's the king James bible. Jimmy was gay.

[NVMojo]

5. and there are gay animals. are humans too good to be gay/normal?

Good luck with your rightwing relative.

[AntiCoup2K4]

24. David & Jonathan

King Saul was planning to give one of his daughters to David in marriage, but he had other interests.....

1 Samuel 18
1 And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
2 And Saul took him that day, and would let him go no more home to his father's house.
3 Then Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul.
4 And Jonathan stripped himself of the robe that was upon him, and gave it to David, and his garments, even to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
5 And David went out whithersoever Saul sent him, and behaved himself wisely: and Saul set him over the men of war, and he was accepted in the sight of all the people, and also in the sight of Saul's servants.
6 And it came to pass as they came, when David was returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, that the women came out of all cities of Israel, singing and dancing, to meet king Saul, with tabrets, with joy, and with instruments of musick.
7 And the women answered one another as they played, and said, Saul hath slain his thousands, and David his ten thousands.
8 And Saul was very wroth, and the saying displeased him; and he said, They have ascribed unto David ten thousands, and to me they have ascribed but thousands: and what can he have more but the kingdom?
9 And Saul eyed David from that day and forward.
10 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
11 And Saul cast the javelin; for he said, I will smite David even to the wall with it. And David avoided out of his presence twice.
12 And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul.
13 Therefore Saul removed him from him, and made him his captain over a thousand; and he went out and came in before the people.
14 And David behaved himself wisely in all his ways; and the LORD was with him.

Maybe someone should point out to the reich wingers that here, in the Old Testament, which they seem to like so much better than the Gospels, is the story of God's chosen future king of Israel, clearly in a same sex relationship at this point, and yet several times we are told "the LORD was with him". Obviously God knew David was getting it on with Jonathan, but He didn't have a problem with it. Though it appears Saul might have.

[Syrinx]

28. that was my first thought when I heard about his stupid bill n/t

[chicagojoe]

2. Syrinx

Is that a 2112 reference? Cool name. Sorry about your Radical Right relative.

[Syrinx]

29. yep

I saw them most recently this past March in Nashville. I love Rush.

And thanks.

[cavanaghjam]

3. Hannity & Colmes -

which one's the "liberal" again?

ps - I know you know not all Alabamans are like that. Statistically impossible.

[Crunchy Frog]

4. No need to apologize. He's not your responsibility.

I know it wasn't your fault that he escaped from that attic.:)

[Syrinx]

30. thanks

When I was growing up he always seemed like such a nice man. And he has never been anything but nice to me personally. But his politics are truly appalling.

[sonicx]

6. does that mean Dick Cheney and family will be banned too?

[NYCGirl]

14. Only Lynne Cheney's lesbian Western romance novel, "Sisters"

http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/sisters.asp

[goclark]

16. Question @Lynn- How can she know so much @ gays

How can she know enough about gays to write a book , a novel, about them?

I would assume that she would not ask her own daughter to tell her about intimate details of her relations, no "moral values" mother would do that to their child.

So, if not from her daughter, where does she get her knowledge?

Most writers don't dream subjects up, especially issues like this one.

Did she go to the library and check out books about gays? No moral values person would dare do that deed! They want to ban all books like that from our eyes!

Therefore, I say, it must be from FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE!

She must be one in order to know enough to write more than 2 pages without some basis in fact.

I had a dear relative that was gay and I could not write a book on the subject. I would not begin to know. She never told me the details and I loved her too much to ever bring it up.

No need to discuss it because our family had unconditional love for her as well as those partners that she had over those years.

So the question that needs to be asked of Lynn is,where is this knowledge and fascination for the topic coming from?

[fishface]

7. The voters of Alabama last year voted to keep their kids stupid.

Turned down a tax increase (OH THE HORROR!!!) that their Repug gov said they NEEDED to bring their schools UP to sub-standard. (why break with tradititon huh?)
You have my complete and utter sympathy.

[Syrinx]

31. Riley has been a pleasant surprise

He's a Republican and I've never voted for him, and never will. But off the top of my head, I can't think of any really horrendous policy initiatives of his, and the progressive tax-reform plan would have helped the state tremendously. But his fellow Pugs put a stop to that.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. I wonder what his position is on divorce?

If he's so worried about anything that's gay, I assume because of the threat they pose to heterosexual unions, isn't divorce an even bigger threat?

[Syrinx]

32. I don't know

I don't think he has ever been divorced though.

[pretzel4gore]

9. beyond a certain point, stupidity becomes madness....

maybe the asshole relative is pushing the bushevik argument across the line and scaring the more reasonable busheviks! the real threat is hannazi and colmes....why are they on tv?

[quaoar]

10. He's from Tuscaloosa

And foolish enough to list his home phone number on his bio:

http://www.legislature.state.al.us/house/representatives/housebios/hd062.html

[Chipper Chat]

11. I watched with horror at this cretin (sorry for dissing your unc).

Even Hannity look repulsed. Actually it was nice to see Sean pull back a little (am I dreaming?) and not agree in lockstep with Allen. He seemed to distance himself from Allen's position, only mentioning "Heather Has 2 Mommies" & similar ilk as books to keep out of libraries (presumably children's facilities), with which I am inclined to concur.
Note to Hannity - use common sense more often, Doofus!

[Toucano]

17. Have you actually seen "Heather Has Two Mommies"?

There's nothing in it that is inappropriate for children. It is a tool to help children understand that every house is not exactly like their house.

[Chipper Chat]

18. Actually I havent. It's hard to find a copy in this RED state.

I'm not against censorship. My point was that I think a child should have some guidance to understand the content. That's all.

[Toucano]

20. Well, I am against censorship as a general rule.

And I agree a child should have guidance to understand the content of many books.

Can we also remove the illustrated Bible Stories books for children? I'd hate to have a child stumble upon that without appropriate guidance to understand the content.

[Chipper Chat]

26. True, true, true

There is a great lyric from "Porgy & Bess"
"oh I takes the gospel wherever it's possble, but with a grain of salt."
Oh, and Ella rocks!

[Toucano]

47. Excellent quote.

Thanks for sharing it.

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. Maybe Hannity has a heart (however small) after all?

Or maybe he's afraid he would never get Lindsey Graham, David Drier or Matt Drudge on his show again, if he didn't at least pretend to be reviled at such a Phelpsian performance.

[Syrinx]

33. I noticed that too

That's the first time I've ever seen Hannity seem reasonable compared to a RW guest. Then again, I rarely watch that show.

[salin]

12. with folks like this.... I always want to ask... "and then what?"

Some sincerely believe that our society is depraved and evil and must be cleaned up to "please God"... okay, let's accept that notion (suspend belief) for a second. We still exist in a mass media age in which even GOP investors get tons of money via sexy advertisements... various media etc. So when this move to ban books results in no change in society.. what next to try to accomplish this national "cleanup"?

[Syrinx]

34. I know, me too

I think of what the German pastor said after the Holocaust:


First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

[lonestarnot]

13. I know it was your relative, but why your wasting time watching Sean

Hannitard, Sean Hanniturd, Sean Handidump?

[Syrinx]

27. well, I watched precisely because he was on the show

I was thinking "well maybe this won't be so bad." But I was wrong, which I knew, deep down, all along.

[lonestarnot]

44. I'm sorry....

:cry:

[Cheswick2.0]

15. Oh good lord, you poor thing

Don't worry you are not responsible for that jack ass.
I'm thinking living in Alabama would be a hell of a lot of fun right now. I would produce every gay play in the english language just to piss him off and bring him into the open like the big homophobe he is.

Why not organize a film festival of Gay movies in his district? What FUN!!!

[Chipper Chat]

19. Or have a "gay pride day" in his hometown

Rosie O'Donnell can be the MC. That would really piss him off!

[Syrinx]

35. thanks

And I like your idea. But you could go to jail if his bill passes. I don't think it will, but in this day and age you never know.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

21. You have my sympathies

Makes ya' wish you could choose your relatives doesn't it?

Truth be told most families have one or two like this...especially on this particular issue. They love to "use" their Bibles...to beat the "others" over the head. God knows they certainly don't read it much...at least not the "Jesus doctrine" parts.

[Syrinx]

36. thank you

I agree. Jesus was the quintessential liberal, but this thick-heads can't seem to understand that.

[hyphenate]

22. That's okay

One of my friends at both DU and another board is an intelligent and compassionate Alabaman. He personifies the good people in the South far more than most of the elected officials from the area. :)

[Syrinx]

37. thank you very much

There are plenty of good folks down here. I wish there were more in office.

[Trajan]

23. Interesting related threads ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x111611

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2786712

[faithnotgreed]

38. hi syrinx! good to see you

i wonder if he likes joan of arcadia? something tells me probably not but i dont want to assume anything about that

hope youre doing well and i thank you for considering it your personal duty to try to remove him from power! that takes courage and resolve esp when youre related.

so... how are the family reunions

[Syrinx]

39. hi J!

I doubt he would like Joan Of Arcadia. It's too thoughtful and nuanced for him. And it presents religion in a kind of liberal light. Wouldn't be surprised if he tries to get it banned too. They had that one episode about the closeted gay candidate for student body president, after all.

Haven't been to a family reunion since the matriarch died at an age nearing 100 several years ago. I run into him every once a while. And he always greets me very nicely. I'm kind of torn, because of that. His policies are pure trash. But he's personally very nice.

I don't guess it's really that big of a conundrum. I can both love him as a member of my family, and revile his political positions.

Thanks for asking. :)

[faithnotgreed]

40. youre quite right. and oh so mature

i kinda laughed but kinda winced when you said he may try to get joan banned! that was funny to read but then i thought - yeah you might be right about that! Jesus was too liberal for some wasnt he?

i think its really great that you can see the good thats in him. and im glad he shows that to you. most people arent all one or all another but its easy to fall into that way of thinking about those who are different. its so great to hear from those who can see beyond - or at least who try to. thats all we really can do is try.

keep us posted. hope youre doing well.....

[Syrinx]

49. thanks for being so kind

You know, I suspect that he's doing this hoping to drum up fundie support for a run for governor. I really think he's going to run in 2006. But so far, at least, this thing seems to be backfiring against him. All the letters-to-the-editor I've seen so far, are against his proposal, and some of them seem to discreetly question his sanity.

Anyway, thanks for being such a nice person.

[faithnotgreed]

61. well lets just hope he keeps on telling his "truth"

because if its out in the light im sure people can make up their own minds about what theyre seeing.

i had no idea he was a candidate for governor
wow

[Syrinx]

62. well, he's not a candidate yet

But that's the speculation in these parts. It could be him versus Roy Moore in the Republican primary. So many good Christian men to chose from. :crazy:

[faithnotgreed]

63. right. certainly not yet candidate but it was just hearing the idea

of it. i should have said that the possibility is in the air. because even that took me by surprise. though i live nowhere near alabama, just reading your posts about it made me pause when you mentioned the idea.

so many possible fronts for that great democracy bush is spreading eh?

i know all this must be hard enough on you but theres the extra component. best wishes. thankfully 2006 is still far enough off that a lot of truth can happen before then

[Warren DeMontague]

41. I know a convenient, low cost way they can dispose of those books...

[Syrinx]

50. no, he's going with a more environmentally sound approach

He's going to have them buried. Books are biodegradable, you know.

[LizW]

42. So sorry, Syrinx

It's hard enough to live in the reddest of red states right now, and I can only imagine how hard it must be to have your relative going on tv to espouse such wacky ideas.

I have my share of freeper relatives too, but so far none have gone on the air!

:hug:

[Syrinx]

51. it's downright humiliating

I don't know, in retrospect, why I admitted here that he's my relative. But after watching him on TV, I just felt a bit of rage, and this seemed like a good place to vent.

Thanks for being there Liz! :hi:

[Stephanie]

43. If you have dirt on this relative, and you really do oppose him

You might want to share said dirt with someone who can disseminate it. Just a thought.

[MelissaB]

45. Hi Syrinx!

:hi: I'm in north Alabama and am just getting involved in politics. This is all new to me, and I don't know what I would do without DU since the election.

I agree that many people here are enlightened, but gay bashing seems to be the "thing" here. I teach in a rural school and struggle with this problem almost daily.

[Syrinx]

55. yeah, the gay-bashing seems worse here than ever

When I was in high school a couple decades ago, it wasn't nearly as bad. I'm not gay, but had a couple of gay friends in school, and the vast majority of the other students were accepting of them. Today, I doubt that would be the case. I'd hate to be a gay teenager in Alabama today.

[Flammable Materials]

46. Start "Gerald Allen's Relatives For Truth" ... n/t

[Syrinx]

52. Funny!

But I'm afraid I don't have what it takes to destroy people's lives. Especially family. Even if they are crazy. But I sure hope this bites him in the ass, politically speaking.

[lastliberalintexas]

48. I think it was Lewis Grizzard who said

that was one of the problems with being a Southerner, since we don't stash our crazy relatives in the attic- we just let them roam free for all the world to see. :)

Thankfully, we're not judged by our relatives. I'm sure we all have some crazies in the tree, it's just that we Southerners are more aware of ours!

[ailsagirl]

53. I heard Mike Malloy excoriating this guy...

Couldn't believe what I was hearing about Allen...

[Syrinx]

54. do you know what night it was?

I'd like to download and take a listen. It'll probably piss me off, because Malloy will probably blame all Alabamians, or all southerners, but I'd still like to listen.

[ailsagirl]

56. YES!! It was Thursday, Dec. 1st

I live in California, though (the show comes on at 10:00 p.m. here)-- that may make a difference. But it was definitely Thursday night's show.

[Syrinx]

57. Thursday was the 2nd

But it was Thursday, right? Thanks, in any case.

[ailsagirl]

59. No-- sorry

it was Wednesday, Dec. 1st

I had logged off and was getting ready for bed when I realized my error. Sorry!

It was in the first half hour of the show-- around 10:30

[Syrinx]

60. ok, thanks

I'm going to taken a listen. Thanks!

[ailsagirl]

58. It was Wednesday, the 1st

[Syrinx]

64. some letters to the editor about this

I haven't seen any positive comments yet, but I probably will. *sigh*

From the Tuscaloosa News:

Scott Taylor Morris
Tuscaloosa
December 05, 2004

Dear Editor: In 1823, the German Jewish poet Heinrich Heine unknowingly foresaw what would later happen to his people in the Holocaust when he wrote, “Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too." (Almansor: A Tragedy)

Rep. Gerald Allen does not seem to share in this understanding of the role of intellectual freedom. In referring to any material existing in public libraries or colleges that might reference homosexuality, he stated, “I’d dig a big hole and dump them in a hole and bury them." (Tuscaloosa News, Dec. 1, 2004).

Does this include science or psychological studies and literature that simply contends with the subject? All Americans’ rights begin with a free marketplace of knowledge in public education whether we agree with the ideas in question, or not. Alabama will not turn gay by having uncensored libraries any more than it will turn Jewish by reading Heinrich Heine.

Adam Bourne
Tuscaloosa
December 05, 2004

Dear Editor: I was disappointed to learn that Rep. Gerald Allen has proposed to ban an entire viewpoint from the public square. The government is obligated to speak out on moral issues, but public officials must not use their enormous power to completely shut down opposing points of view.

A true conservative would protect freedom and champion a limited government. Instead, Rep. Allen advocates for a big government that has the power to destroy debate on the great issues of our time.

From the Birmingham News:

History books would fly off the shelves:

I read with interest state Rep. Gerald Allen's proposed bill to ban from public and school libraries all books with gay characters or mentions of homosexuality.

This would, of course, require the removal of all history books and biographies that make mention of such historic notables as Alexander the Great, Socrates, Aristotle, Richard the Lionhearted, Francis Bacon, Lord Byron, Marcel Proust, Former U.N. Secretary Dag Hammerskjold, Michelangelo, Leonardo Da Vinci, Noel Coward, J. Edgar Hoover, Walt Whitman, Tchaikovsky, Julius Caesar, James I, Peter the Great, Hans Christian Andersen and others, along with virtually all editions of The News.

While it is tempting to simply ignore such irresponsible rhetoric, Alabama's residents have historically not been known for their collective wisdom in such matters. I strongly encourage all Alabamians to write our elected officials of the need to defeat passage of this ridiculous bill.

Lindsey O'Connor
Homewood

There is no `homosexual agenda':

Just what planet is state Rep. Gerald Allen living on? There is no "homosexual agenda" except in the minds of paranoid bigots.

If Allen had his way, our libraries would have no newspapers. After all, we might read stories about Congressman Barney Frank, Vice President Dick Cheney's daughter Mary or the Log Cabin Republicans. We'd have to get rid of most magazines (even Better Homes & Gardens has featured homosexual families in its decorating articles). We won't need transcripts of the presidential debates of 2004, where President Bush, in response to the question "Is homosexuality a choice?" said, "I do know that we have a choice to make in America and that is to treat people with tolerance and respect and dignity. It's important that we do that. And I also know in a free society people, consenting adults, can live the way they want to live."

I don't like going to the public library and seeing that my tax dollars have been spent on books by Ann Coulter and Michael Savage. But that's the way it is. If you took all those books out of the library, there would still be right-wing nuts in the world. And if there was never another word spoken about homosexuality, there would still be gay people.

Allen needs to get over it and focus on some of the real problems we have in Alabama.

Lisa Harris

Hoover

Homosexuality not contagious:

State Rep. Gerald Allen wants to protect us from books with gay or bisexual characters. As a matter of fact, he suggests that a big hole should be dug where they could be dumped in and buried.

Could it be that this bastion of the moral high road believes homosexuality can be caught by contact with the words on a printed page? I sincerely hope he gives the heterosexual community of Alabama more credit than that.

If ignorance is bliss, Allen must be the most blissful man on Earth.

John Alford

Homewood

Perhaps need to expand ban:

Hurrah for state Rep. Gerald Allen's plan to ban positive images of homosexuality from public libraries. Perhaps, though, the scope of his bill is too narrow.

I have long lamented the use of taxpayer dollars for books that promote male heterosexuality, a lifestyle that leads to rape, sexual assault and battering.

Since most child abuse occurs within the family, perhaps we should ban books that promote family life as well.

Kathy King

Montevallo

Allen sounds a lot like Adolf Hitler:

I am very disturbed that lawmakers feel it is their duty to dictate moral values to the people of Alabama. I find it quite embarrassing that a man who is paid by the residents of Alabama - including the gay ones - would propose an amendment to ban any mention of the existence of homosexuals.

With all due respect to state Rep. Gerald Allen, he sounds a lot like Adolf Hitler in 1938. The day such a ban happens is the day when America's great government essentially disappears.

I know we must endure President Bush for another four years, but Allen we do not. I am going to actively campaign to see that Allen's fascist and downright bigoted ideology ceases to be paid for by my tax dollars. This is the first day of the last of Allen's tenure. The people of this great state have had enough.

Jarrod Benefield

Southside

Lawmaker places agenda over freedom:

So an Alabama legislator wants to ban gay subjects from Alabama's universities and public libraries? Once again, an Alabama lawmaker places pushing his narrow-minded agenda over common sense and freedom.

People have the right to choose what they or their children will read. I'll bet Rep. Gerald Allen has a lot to say about government interference in any cause he supports.

Today, it's gays whose rights are being attacked. Who will it be tomorrow?

I don't know where Allen can get a Swastika armband, but I'm sure brown shirts will be on sale after Christmas.

Tim B. Pond

Center Point

[Syrinx]

65. thie idiot has made the foreign press and he's going to meet with Bush

What should we do with US classics like Cat on a Hot Tin Roof or The Color Purple? "Dig a hole," Gerald Allen recommends, "and dump them in it." Don't laugh. Gerald Allen's book-burying opinions are not a joke.

Earlier this week, Allen got a call from Washington. He will be meeting with President Bush on Monday. I asked him if this was his first invitation to the White House. "Oh no," he laughs. "It's my fifth meeting with Mr Bush."

Bush is interested in Allen's opinions because Allen is an elected Republican representative in the Alabama state legislature. He is Bush's base. Last week, Bush's base introduced a bill that would ban the use of state funds to purchase any books or other materials that "promote homosexuality". Allen does not want taxpayers' money to support "positive depictions of homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle". That's why Tennessee Williams and Alice Walker have got to go.

I ask Allen what prompted this bill. Was one of his children exposed to something in school that he considered inappropriate? Did he see some flamingly gay book displayed prominently at the public library?

No, nothing like that. "It was election day," he explains. Last month, "14 states passed referendums defining marriage as a relationship between a man and a woman". Exit polls asked people what they considered the most important issue, and "moral values in this country" were "the top of the list".

*snip*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/features/story/0,11710,1369643,00.html

[devilgrrl]

66. I swear, people like that are gayer than Christmas.

pfft!