Billy Graham just called Bu$h a liar on NBC Nightly News.

[DemoTex]

Well, he didn't overtly call Bu$h a liar, but he cast doubt on the story of Bu$h's "conversion" at the hands of Rev. Graham. I always thought that story smelled.

[Vickers]

1. Details, brother, details!

Did he say something like "I'd like to talk to him about this in private" or something?

[Eric J in MN]

16. Billy Graham said that he didn't save Bush.

Graham also said that he's a Democrat, and he momentarily referred to Iraq as Vietnam before catching himself.

[cally]

38. Billy Graham is a Democrat!!!!

I didn't know that. Sure would be nice if he had supported Kerry before the s/election.

[Eric J in MN]

43. Yes. It's unclear though if he voted for Kerry or Bush NT

NT

[tavalon]

87. Um,

when I was growing up, Southern Baptists were, almost without exception, Democrats. However, I left the church about 22 years ago and I suspect if I went back to that little church in Summerfield, FL, I would find that most of the congregation voted Republican and won't see a bit of contradiction in that. After all, we are at war with Eurasia.........

[blackangrydem]

41. He's probably a "Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms" democrat

[Cha]

45. Or Heavens Forbid.. a

zell dem!

[LittleClarkie]

69. A Zell dem wouldn't have referred to "Viet-raq"

You go, old man!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. He's No Racist...

He refused to preach in front of segregated audiences in the pre civil rights south but I have no doubt he's culturally conservative...

[LimpingLib]

68. Him and his son are bigots and racist.

Graham the dad is anti-semitic (as in Jewish)and he and Nixon kept 1 upping each other on anti Jewish comments and kept saying how suprized they were that they found somebody else who hates Jews (each other). Kept reassuring each other the the other wasnt crazy. Graham bragged that his strong support of Israel (ie hate of Palestinians)helps keep Jews from suspecting his hatred.

Now Franklin Graham is about as anti semitic (the other semites , Arabs)as they come , though he also claims to be a friend of Jews.

[leesa]

76. Right.

He's a con man just like Robertson and Foulwell.

[Nevernose]

80. At this point, I'll take what I can get n/t

:D

[T Bone]

59. I heard that slip of the tongue Vieh-Iraq !!

I had tv on today sometime and heard that slip-. Graham caught himself and mentioned out loud that he had slipped up, he meant IRAQ. But he started to call the current quagmire Vieh____. If God truly does speak through Billy Graham?? What does it mean? Deja' Vietnam I guess. Not that I didn't already feel that way about it.

[lgardengate]

71. Graham would never say he "saved" anyone....

In all fairness, i have heard stuff like this a million times over growing up in a Baptist church.No man can save anyone.Jesus saves us/people.So Graham would always say he dosen't save people.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Wow.

Let's see Dobson and Falwell take on The Godfather. Horse heads in beds for everyone.

[Sequoia]

7. You're too funny!

You tell 'em Billy Boy!

[neuvocat]

3. Bush is no Christian.

[alittlelark]

40. b*sh was 'born again' in a coffin

at the Skull and Bones initiation.

[Justice]

91. Truer words were never spoken

[Malva Zebrina]

4. Where? When?

Do you have a link to this report?

[LSparkle]

5. Whoa ...

And who are you going to believe, W or Billy Graham? Wonder what the dittoheads will think when they hear about this. After all, if you fudge about one thing, it calls ALL a person's statements into question (or at least that's what I've heard from the right for years).

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

6. IT WAS NOT AT THE HANDS OF Billy Graham.

Graham is telling the truth.

Bush "accepted Jesus" at the hands of a TENT REVIVAL PREACHER, who dragged around a giant Jesus statue on a trailer.

He "met with" Graham AFTER HE WAS "CONVERTED." His "meeting" was basically a "photo op" for THIS VERY REASON...so he could "claim" later that he "accepted Jesus" at the hands of Billy Graham.

Bush made John McCain his whore, his bitch, during the election. Now he's trying to do the same thing with Billy Graham. There's only ONE LITTLE PROBLEM with that:

Graham is telling the truth.

I found the link outlining all of this several weeks ago but didn't post it on DU for two reasons:

1). Bush makes me fucking sick, and

2). I AM a Christian, and I am SICK AND TIRED of being "lumped in" with the psychotic fundamentals. As a result, I seldom...if ever...post to the "Christian" topics on DU.

But...forgive me if I've already said this...

Graham is telling the truth.

[Vickers]

8. But that's kinda the whole point...Bush *was* "saved" at the hands

of a tent revival preacher, but apparently "traded up" to Graham at some point because it had more...something.

Pizzazz.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

11. I want to see the place in Hell reserved for Bush. The WHOLE family.

I looked forward to November 2nd as a day when we could put all of this behind us and start rebuilding the country.

I'm wondering if there will be ANYTHING LEFT in another four years to rebuild.

:grr:

[Cha]

48. WE all did, Sweetie!

And got the shock of some of our lives! Thank God ..there's DU to come to and "rebuild the Country"..only from the outside in...STILL!

[Old and In the Way]

12. Well Graham was the official preacher for the Republican Party, IIRC.

The Republican official "stamp of approval", so to speak. So Bush was bearing false witness against Graham? Where will it end?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Graham Has Been A Friend To Democratic And Republican Presidents...

Read his autoboigraphy....


He can't say enough good things about Clinton


He also was a big foe of impeachment so much so that Bill Bennett criticized him him in the press....

The irony of the gambler lecturing the preacher was delicious...

[Cha]

50. That's good to know about bennett...

if his integrity could have possibly have gone down in my eyes..it did!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Graham Told Katie Couric In An Interview At The Time That

he could see how women were attracted to Clinton...


Billy Graham and Bill Clinton spoke at the memorials after Oklahoma City...

They might have also spoken at the memorials after Columbine... I don't rememember...

In his autobography he says Clinton would have made a great preacher which I believe is undoubtedly true...

[dweller]

18. butbutbut Graham claims he's a lifelong Democrat...

or so he says.
this was discussed on Ed Schultz today, sorry, no link.


dp

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. He Is But A Conservative Dem Who Voted For Bush...

nt

[Cheswick2.0]

55. how do you know?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. really?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/election/july-dec00/bush_11-6.html


BILLY GRAHAM: I've been praying that God's will shall be done. I don't endorse candidates, but I've come as close to it, I guess, now as anytime in my life because I think it's extremely important. We have in our state absentee ballots, I've already voted, I'll just let you guess who I voted for.

[LittleClarkie]

72. Read that again, only this time

pretend he's hinting at voting for Kerry, not Bush. What in that quote make's it clear that he voted Bush? If he's thinking "Viet-raq" he could have decided that it was "extremely important" to vote Kerry this year. I know other conservatives who did.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. I Don't Know He Voted In 04

but if you click the link there's no doubt who he voted for in 00...

[southlandshari]

39. Isn't it Graham's son that is in bed with the * administration?

I could be wrong, but I think Graham has a son who has been much more anti-Muslim and right-wing in his public comments and actions, and who has been invited to give invocations at significant events at the White House?

Anyone know more on this?

[southlandshari]

42. Franklin Graham

Remember him?

Here's a refresher:

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/124/story_12422_1.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. yep...

not billy...

He's not a basher...

[Cheswick2.0]

56. Yes, its the son

who is the big shock and awe republican.

[w4rma]

83. Bush did it so he could "name drop". It's all about who you know. (nt)

[Lars39]

24. I followed that same link to the revival tent preacher.

What I found interesting is that he forked over $1000 bucks that he probably couldn't afford, to meet Bush at a fundraiser, and Bush didn't acknowledge his contribution to his spiritual life, let alone act like they had ever met before. And the reverend is righteously, although politely, pissed.

[pansypoo53219]

27. i am offended like you

i want my country back, but mostly i want my god back to.

[murielm99]

82. This is written about in detail in the Kitty Kelley book,

"The Family."

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

9. It was WONDERFUL!

He basically said he doesn't recall having anything to do with the Evil Twig's conversion. That he used to do some Bible study with the Bush family when dumbya was a young man but that is all.

Said he's "heard those stories". LOL

He called him a liar...very politely...without saying the word liar.

Go Billy!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


Edit: still can't spell...sigh

[Padraig18]

10. Dr. Graham is one of the few 'evangelists' I semi-respect.

I do not agree with his Southern Baptist theology, but I do believe he is a man of integrity, in both word and deed.

[LSparkle]

13. Any man who can fill the Rose Bowl

as he did this past weekend for something other than a sporting event or a concert has my respect. He has integrity, something that The Village Idiot can only scratch his head about.

[leesa]

78. He's the master con man. Made millions spewing and laughed all the

way to the bank. You don't get to rub elbows with the Bushes if you're a good man.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. I Had A Big Debate In The Lounge About Dr. Graham...

He lives a modest lifestyle


He doesn't bash gays

He doesn't bash liberals

He doesn't bash Muslims....

He just leads folks to Christ....

[faithnotgreed]

15. very important points. can you link me to that thread?

[karlrschneider]

20. Did a quick search, I think it's probably this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=2058337

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. The Guy Found A Link Criticising Graham For Not Divulging His Salary....

And the only link on the subject I could find...

[pansypoo53219]

29. sure he is

but his spawn is a prick.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. jimmy carter, jesse jackson, bill clinton, and al sharpton are born

again christians for starters...

[DURHAM D]

30. He was caught on tape (w/Nixon) Jew bashing. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. And He Was Embarassed And Apologized...

If we can forgive Jesse Jackson, James Moran,Cynthia McKinney and Al Sharpton we can forgive Billy Graham...


And also he had the evil one (Nixon) egging him on...

[Danmel]

34. Does he bash Jews?

Just curious.......

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Thirty Five Years Ago...

In the famous Nixon tapes Nixon was railing against Jewish intellectuals as the source of everything wrong in America and Graham assented...


When the tapes were discovered He was embarassed and apologized...




on edit- i think it's fucking scary that we had a rank anti-semite and racist as president... there's also tapes of nixon touting the genetic inferiority of blacks...

[Cha]

51. With those attributes it hard

to believe he would "vote for bush"!

[leesa]

81. Bashes Jews though. Lives the high life as Bush's neighbor. Get a clue.

Also Bashes Muslims...with biblical phraseology, of course. YOU have by conned by the master.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. The Bible Is No More Anti-Islamic Than The Koran Is Anti-Christian

Most religions have exclusionary dogma ... Most of them think they are the only way...


I believe Billy Graham is a North Carolina resident...



Which of the Bushes live in North Carolina?




on edit- I got a clue


-:)

Brian

[BlueHandDuo]

47. Is Graham Southern Baptist?

I thought he was Presbyterian.

Unless I'm getting him mixed up with Fred Rogers, who I'm pretty sure was Presbyterian.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. I Thought He Was Methodist But I Could Be Wrong (nt)

[AspenRose]

66. Billy is Baptist; his wife, Ruth, is Presbyterian

They taught their children about Jesus proper and allowed them to choose what 'flavor' Christian they wanted to be when they got older.

[RamboLiberal]

22. Here's Graham quote from MSNBC website

,snip>

Friday night at the Rose Bowl, more than 2,000 people came forward to accept Rev. Graham's invitation to turn over their lives to Jesus Christ.

That's something the current president says he did during a now-famous talk with Billy Graham, at a time when drinking and carousing threatened to lead George W. Bush astray. It’s an encounter that gets an interesting reaction when Rev. Graham is asked about it now.

"I've heard others say that, and people have written it, but I cannot say that," he says. "I was with him and I used to teach the Bible at Kennebunkport to the Bush family when he was a younger man, but I never feel that I in any way turned his life around."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6560118/

Wonder if Countdown might show the story later.

[Contrary1]

23. Here it is:

"Friday night at the Rose Bowl, more than 2,000 people came forward to accept Rev. Graham's invitation to turn over their lives to Jesus Christ.

That's something the current president says he did during a now-famous talk with Billy Graham, at a time when drinking and carousing threatened to lead George W. Bush astray. It’s an encounter that gets an interesting reaction when Rev. Graham is asked about it now.

"I've heard others say that, and people have written it, but I cannot say that," he says. "I was with him and I used to teach the Bible at Kennebunkport to the Bush family when he was a younger man, but I never feel that I in any way turned his life around."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6560118/

[Malva Zebrina]

25. Graham has always been ready to associate himself with

the high up elite in politics.

He is not a humble man--being associated with the elite was always his claim to fame and he enjoyed it and the fame that went with it. He capitalized on that. He is at heart, a politician and also one who likes to be associated with\ the powerful.

He is an old man now. I doubt he will give up his status as the "confidant" of the powerful and the rich.

He should take up preaching in a small little church in somae backwoods rural place, where his input may be valuable to the little people and the poor and get out of the limelight.

He has enjoyed capitalizing on the limelight much the same as Falwell and Robertson, although he never did establish a Christian college dedicated to getting graduates into government positions.

He is no saint but rather a very savvy politician. Why on earth would he be a guest at Kennebunkport if he did not express a desire to be there? I don't believe he was a guest there because of an overwhelming desire to council this Bush family evil empire.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

28. Billy Graham has been

part of the American "landscape" since the late 40's. I grew up with him on my grandma's tiny black & white tv when there was only one station and Sunday's were full of "preachin".

He did tent revivals in tiny towns and wasn't well known at all until about '49.

If being respected by the "elite" makes one a "politician" then I guess he qualifies.

But, as DemocratSinceBirth pointed out...

"He lives a modest lifestyle


He doesn't bash gays

He doesn't bash liberals

He doesn't bash Muslims....

He just leads folks to Christ...."

He preaches in the style I remember from my youth...that we are ALL children of God and ALL worthy of respect.

The "politicians" today are the Falwells and Robertsons and their ilk IMHO.

We need more men like Billy Graham.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. He Has Literally Led Millions Of People To Christ...

Whether that's a good thing or bad thing is in the eyes of the beholder....


In his mind those millions got a ticket to heaven...


Whether that's nonsense or not is in the eyes of the beholder...


He couldn't do that in a small rural church...

[leesa]

79. He's a con man. He's making millions off this con.

He has helped to develop this very evil, hatefilled brand of ugly christianity that is destroying our country. He is evil.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

88. What's Inherently Hateful About Christianity?

Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Jesse Jackson, Dr. Martin Luther King, and Hillary Clinton are all Christians..



All the heavy work of the civil rights movement was done by Christians-the Southern Christian Leadership Conference....

[luaneryder]

26. According to the KK book

the idiot was converted/saved/whatever by Arthur Blessitt who had wheeled his 96 pound cross of Jesus into Midland in April 1984.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. But There's Reports Of BushEngaging In Ribald Behavior After That Date...

I'm not criticizing ribald behavior per se but I still see the contradiction of being a born again Christian and engaging in ribald behavior...

[AntiCoup2K4]

36. I've always respected Billy Graham

Can't say the same for his son Franklin though. He's not worthy of the family business, that will probably be his very soon (as Billy's health has been declining for some time :( )

[Piperay]

84. Me too

and I think his daughter should take over the 'business' and not his son.

[Cha]

44. There's soooo many things he could be

called a "LIAR" ON!

[m berst]

46. man

All of this debate about Graham, is he this or is he that.

I think the important thing here is that this is one more compelling piece of evidence that the president's Christianity is a big act that he is using for political gain.

The president certainly does not behave in a Christian way, the president does not attend church or belong to a congregation, and now we find out that his conversion story is phony.

This man has lied to everyone about everything, but many conservative Christians have stayed loyal. That is what makes this big news IMHO, because it threatens his most loyal base of support.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

49. I Like Billy Graham...

As this thread illustrates he's not a saint....

But he sure ain't a gay bashing, liberal bashing, Muslim bashing preacher like Falwell, Swaggart and Pat Robertson...

[m berst]

52. hi DSB

No comparison, eh? I agree. Falwell,and Pat Robertson are fascists and ruthless and corrupt businesmen, not preachers IMHO.

Graham is no saint, but then who is?

The stunning thing to me though, is the possibility - I am convinced of it myself - that Bush is faking being a Christian to get votes. That is the depth of depravity in my opinion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. Not Even Mother Teresa...

If you read Christopher Hitchens...

As you know before someone becomes a saint in the Catholic church they have someone play the role of the devil and make bad charges against him or her-the devil's advocate...

Christopher Hitchens actually went to the Vatican and played that role...

http://www.rationalistinternational.net/archive/en/rationalist_1999/19.htm

[m berst]

67. Mother Teresa, yes

That scandal had something to do with her windsurfing, I think.

[Merlin]

62. Billy Graham is no liberal. Unless he's had a major conversion.

Back in 1972 he called peace protesters traitors.

To his credit, later in life he apologized for that remark.

He may well now have completely changed, but I doubt it.

I would not make too much of this reported remark.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

65. He's Not A Liberal...

but he has apologized for a lot of the things he said with and in defense of the evil one (Nixon)...


He is what he is a -by the book Christian but at least he presents the psotive case for Christ and doesn't bash...

[FrenchieCat]

63. So what????

Won't do a bit of good. It's after the election....so this ain't going to mean a hell of beans. :shrug:

Bush already got what he wanted ....the presidency for 8 years.

Where was Mr. Graham when we needed him?

[UTUSN]

64. Kick for the Highlighting

*******QUOTE*******

Billy Graham just called Bu$h a liar on NBC Nightly News

Well, he didn't overtly call Bu$h a liar, but he cast doubt on the story of Bu$h's "conversion" at the hands of Rev. Graham. I always thought that story smelled

Graham also said that he's a Democrat, and he momentarily referred to Iraq as Vietnam before catching himself

Billy Graham is a Democrat!!!!

He's probably a "Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms" democrat

Graham caught himself and mentioned out loud that he had slipped up, he meant IRAQ. But he started to call the current quagmire Vieh____.

Bush "accepted Jesus" at the hands of a TENT REVIVAL PREACHER, who dragged around a giant Jesus statue on a trailer.

He "met with" Graham AFTER HE WAS "CONVERTED." His "meeting" was basically a "photo op" for THIS VERY REASON...so he could "claim" later that he "accepted Jesus" at the hands of Billy Graham.

Bush made John McCain his whore, his bitch, during the election. Now he's trying to do the same thing with Billy Graham. There's only ONE LITTLE PROBLEM with that:

Graham is telling the truth.

I found the link outlining all of this several weeks ago but didn't post it on DU for two reasons:

1). Bush makes me fucking sick, and

2). I AM a Christian, and I am SICK AND TIRED of being "lumped in" with the psychotic fundamentals. As a result, I seldom...if ever...post to the "Christian" topics

He basically said he doesn't recall having anything to do with the Evil Twig's conversion. That he used to do some Bible study with the Bush family when dumbya was a young man but that is all.

Said he's "heard those stories". LOL

He called him a liar...very politely...without saying the word liar.

Friday night at the Rose Bowl, more than 2,000 people came forward to accept Rev. Graham's invitation to turn over their lives to Jesus Christ.

That's something the current president says he did during a now-famous talk with Billy Graham, at a time when drinking and carousing threatened to lead George W. Bush astray. It’s an encounter that gets an interesting reaction when Rev. Graham is asked about it now.

"I've heard others say that, and people have written it, but I cannot say that," he says. "I was with him and I used to teach the Bible at Kennebunkport to the Bush family when he was a younger man, but I never feel that I in any way turned his life around."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6560118 /

********UNQUOTE*******

[LimpingLib]

70. This guy is not a liberal he is a butcher......he said to Nixon.....

...that he would have no problem with blowing up damns that would cause millions of Vietnamese to die.

He is no liberal.

He can go to his "hell".

[WI_DEM]

73. Billy Graham may be the only tv evangelist I have admired

I never found him to be as judgemental as the rest and he doesn't seem to be overtly partisan. I grew up listening to his crusades on television, so maybe I'm a bit jaded, but I genuinely like the man.

[LimpingLib]

74. He knows how to be shrewd.

Like Powell , McCain ,Clark, etc.


Too bad there are fools who buy it.

Well like many here.

[LosinIt]

90. But what about Ernest Angley, he can heeeall you via the TV

he gets your affliction in the vision (this is a new technology of his, didn't used to do this in the 70s when he made my roommate and I born-again virgins) and then the evil spirits come ooouuutt. Can Billy do that?? Ernest healed my husband's hemorrhoids last Sunday, just had to have him back it up to the TV and he is a new asshole.

[Straight Shooter]

75. I pass no judgment on Billy Graham

I see his appeal to millions. If he does a lot of good and little harm, so be it.

I do pass judgment on bush. It is said, "The evil that men do lives after them. The good is oft interred with their bones."

Men like Billy Graham pass through this world like a soft wind, touching many, disrupting little. bush is like a violent storm, and the aftermath lives for generations.

[LimpingLib]

77. Yea .. silently behind the scenes not only telling Nixon....

.. he wasnt crazy for thinking Jews are ruining the country but explainning to Nixon how "bad" Jews are in terms and ways that he thought Nixon never thought of , except both kept complimenting and consoling each other like 2 "enlightened" anti-semites who just noticed for the very moment they got together that the sun is shinning the light of truth again.

Graham supported policys that would have killed enough Vietnamese that only Bush could have dreamed of killing.Graham bragged about how smat he is in tricking Jews about his true feelings based on his clevel support of Israel.

Face it. Right wingers in all their forms leave a path of blood everywhere they go.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

89. Graham Made Anti Semitic Remarks And Apologized...

There's no hint in the public record that Graham is an anti-semite...


And I have listened to the tapes it was the evil one (Nixon) egging him on...