Probably an important clarification on the Kucinich/Edwards 'deal'

[WilliamPitt]

The Kucinich campaign has an MSNBC reporter that goes along with them. Kucinich told her today that, in places where he is not going to get past the 15% threshold, his supporters will back Edwards (for strategic reasons you can probably spell out for yourself). The MSNBC reporter reported this to her network.

By the time it went through the wash and got on the air, it was "Kucinich is quitting and giving his supporters to Edwards!" I'm told that the MSNBC reporter was screaming into the phone at her superiors because of the way they screwed up the story.

This is the press release I just got:

Kucinich and Edwards Caucus Strategy

For Immediate Release: Jan. 19, 2004

The Dennis Kucinich for President campaign is focused on turning out Iowans to caucus for Kucinich. Senator John Edwards' campaign is focused on turning out Iowans to caucus for Edwards. Neither campaign is dropping out or endorsing the other.

In precincts where one or both campaigns are not viable (do not have the minimum number of supporters to elect one delegate), the Kucinich and Edwards campaigns are joining forces. In these precincts, whichever of these two groups of supporters is smaller will move to the other campaign.

Congressman Kucinich and Senator Edwards are friends and share a positive and optimistic approach to this election.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. This is the best news I've heard all day!

My two favorite candidates, working together. It's like I got a present for MLK Day!

[polpilot]

23. Will Kucinich backers go 'pro-war' now??

Dean '04...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

26. Dean went "pro-war" - Dennis will not

Kucinich and Edwards both have a *record* of being pro-workers, unlike some other candidates, who have a *record* of being pro-corporate. That's the basis of the cooperation.

But it's a good question - now Dean fans are repeating the administration line that we must "finish the job in Iraq" so the question is will Dean backers go "pro-war" now? Looks like many of them have.

[polpilot]

59. So Dennis votes against the war but will help elect pro-war candidates.

That's great!!!


Dean '04...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

64. they are all pro-war candidates, except for Dennis

What do you want him to do, join the Green party?

[KittyWampus]

27. Guess Kucinich Supporters Don't Really Want To Cut Defense Spending

[polpilot]

62. Guess Dean was right about being the only anti-war candidate. Dean

KNEW it would all come down to him to express the anti-Iraqi War position.

Dean '04...

[AP]

66. Remember 87 bil Iraq no vote by Edwards?

I guess both K and E want to take the profit for private companies out of the defense budget and use the money to spend on PEOPLE rather than weapons programs.

[blm]

2. That's what I thought.

Hey Will, read an article a couple days ago that Dennis is actually chummy with Teresa. I always thought those two would be get along great. Does she have a younger sister to fix him up with?

[JohnKleeb]

11. heh you have a link to this

Thats neat news. I remember a Kerry supporter went to a DK event actually it was for all them went to an event in Ohio and talked to Dennis and Dennis quote "likes John and has a lot of respect for him" Kerry that is, his friendship with Edwards is known well.

[blm]

32. Hey there. Found the story.

http://www.freep.com/news/politics/teresa14_20040114.htm

>>>>>>>
Blinken says Kerry never puts on a false front, even while campaigning. "You saw her in the churches. That's not fake. That's not phony. That's real. She's a woman that's dedicated to making the lives of other people better."

She's also a woman who is friends with some of her husband's Democratic rivals, including Carol Moseley Braun and Dennis Kucinich. During the CNN Rock the Vote debate in Boston, Rev. Al Sharpton said during a light-hearted exchange that he'd like to party with her.

Ask a famous visitor to Detroit his or her impression of the city and you'll usually get a canned comment about signs of progress or the warmth of the people. But ask Kerry, and she shares a lengthy anecdote about being here in October for the Detroit debate and meeting real estate developer Sharon Madison Polk at a reception.

During the party, the two women talked for an hour about issues like urban renewal. The result was Polk visiting Pittsburgh and meeting up with Kerry to see what that industrial city was doing in terms of new development and eco-friendly architecture.
>>>>>

[never cry wolf]

3. Thanks for the update

This makes sense to me, Al should join in too!

You back home Will or staying in the flatlands for the festivities?

[WilliamPitt]

5. I'm home

with a boatload of material I have to turn into an article.

[never cry wolf]

14. I can't wait to read it...

or the book maybe??

Welcome home, I hope you were able to catch the Pats game yesterday!

[Raven]

4. Willie! God love ya!

I was hoping you would post and clarify this! I was so confused. Also VelmaD and I are glad you weren't kidnapped by those children of the corn folks! Try and keep us up to date tonight. :hi:

[WilliamPitt]

7. Well, the corn all got harvested a while ago

so I guess they're Children Of The Topsoil now. No so intimidating, really. :)

[Clark4VotingRights]

10. "Children of the Topsoil" snort. :)

Heh, good one.

[VelmaD]

65. Not sure which is funnier

That I stuck you with "doll-baby" or that your momma still calls you "Willie". *snort*

Aren't you glad you're home? :-)

[redqueen]

6. "a positive and optimistic approach to this election"

Ahhhh.

Thanks for this clarifiation, Will.

[stickdog]

21. Bush is also planning on running positive and optimistic campaign.(nt)

[redqueen]

47. LOL

That's funny! :)

[diamondsoul]

8. Thank you so much for this,

Will! I'm running all over the internet right now trying to stem the tide of rumors! LOL

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. i'll help with that!

no one wants DK out of this campaign. or at least they shouldn't.

[Raya]

9. This Strategy Denies Gephart, Kerry and Dean of floaters.

Are pre-caucus meeting vote-swapping ethical. That is the question.

[WilliamPitt]

12. I guarantee

that every single campaign has a swap-strategy in place for weak areas. It is a mortal lock.

[Raya]

16. But, doing deal for all state with Edwards only seem like old-time

back-room corrupt deal-making.

[redqueen]

20. What do you mean "doing deal for all state"?

If I'm not mistaken, these caucuses are done by precinct. Depending on how a candidate does in however many precincts determines the delegates, right? SO this isn't statewide ...

I still don't see the what big deal is.

[helleborient]

37. What happened to sticking with voting your conscience?

Voting for John Edwards, as a Dennis Kucinich supporter, is voting your conscience?

I'm waiting for the reconciliation between their differing policies.

Positive campaigning is it? What happened to reduction of military spending, Department of Peace, anti-war, etc...

There is no way you can not spin it as assisting John Edwards in staying in the race.

[redqueen]

49. If this deal helps Kucinich

It advances his agenda, which I share.

Not sure where the disconnect is, really.

[helleborient]

57. Goodbye idealism...long live pragmatic agenda advancement

And Dennis dared to have us believe otherwise.

[redqueen]

58. LOL

Not only his agenda advances, Kucinich advances.

By voting for the lesser quality agenda-wise, but more 'electable' candidate, you neither advance your agenda, OR your candidate.

[AP]

68. K and E have same PRIORITIES: help people who work for living

K could spend all day touting his anti-war stance, but, because his priorities are in order, he talks about things that matter to people's lives: the transfer of wealth from people who work to the wealthy who don't...AS DOES EDWARDS.

[Jerseycoa]

13. Yes nt

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Apparently these arrangements are acceptable

in conducting caucuses. At least that's what I was told when I asked about the story last week that the Dean campaign planned to send their "extra" votes to Kerry (this was when Dean had a lead in the polls) in order to boost Kerry in NH. (The idea was to kill Gephardt's chances in Iowa and hurt Clark in NH and I guess they assumed Kerry would just die, too.)

It all seems strange to me but caucuses are different from the primary elections I'm used to. I do like the fact that they talk things over together; it would seem to preclude people voting just because of a sound bite they heard on tv news.

[youngred]

19. please

its like backing another candidate, its smart and completely ethical

[Toot]

17. I don't know if I like the whole Caucus set-up.

I mean, a person likes a specific candidate but your group doesn't have enough people so, the other groups that have more try to change your opinion to come to their group. Now, K/E are planning ahead because they know they don't have enough support in certain areas, so they want their people to go to each other's majority so they have a better chance of winning.

It just doesn't seem right. I just think people should vote for whoever they want and the one with the majority wins.

I guess that's why it's best to vote in private.

[Nadienne]

25. People will vote for whoever they want

It's not a game of follow the leader. A recommendation was made - not an order. My God, do you think a Kucinich supporter would be too keen on the idea of following orders? lol I think not.

[Toot]

30. I didn't say it was an order and I'm pretty sure some supporters of both .

won't do it, but just the fact that K/E can make a deal like this before hand, trying to swing the results a certain way instead of letting the process work naturally when the caucus happens.

[Nadienne]

48. Trying to swing results a certain way...

like endorsements? Sorry, I kinda think this falls a little short of that.

And I also think this is not the conspiracy, back-room deal that people here are making it out to be. I ought to know; I'm an Iowan, and a volunteer with the Kucinich campaign.

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. Why would staunchly anti-war caucusers support Edwards?

I'm glad to have their votes, but I don't see it happening, frankly. I see more of them going to Dr. Dean, or 'uncommitted'.

[blm]

36. Why would staunchly anti-corporatist caucusers go for Dean?

Or staunch civil liberties advocates go for Dean?

Or staunch environmentalists go for Dean?

Or staunch death penalty opponents go for Dean?

btw...Dean was never antiwar. He was pro resolution for use of force based on Bush's sole determination as per Biden-Lugar. Do you think Dennis Kucinich supporters don't know about Dean's demagoguery on the war?

[Sly Kal]

24. Odd

it is a very odd move for kucinich to expect his supporters to vote Edwards. They have opposite values on many issues.

[leyton]

28. You really think so?

I don't. They do disagree on the war, but to those (not you personaly, Sly Kal :) ) who are upset because Kucinich backed someone who voted for the Iraq War Resolution - come on. This is not a one-issue race. No two candidates will have the same stances on every issue.

Kucinich is in this race, as far as I can tell, because he wants to take America back for the little people. He's about the common man's issues. Same goes for Edwards, and thus I think the deal makes sense. Yeah, Dean's got the message about "take back America" too, but I think the 'regular people' idea is more central to Edwards' message.

[Clark4VotingRights]

34. I know so. I've donated to Kucinich multiple times. (And to Clark.)

I am upset if any Kucinich support goes to someone who enabled
this invasion. Edwards is one of the better candidates, but
he crossed a big ol' line when he voted for IWR.

[redqueen]

50. But they're not supporting Edwards for nothing

By doing so, they gain support for Kucinich.

Still not getting the big outrage thing.

[diamondsoul]

43. Jeez, people, read the OP again!

DENNIS didn't "back" ANYONE! This was an agreement between Iowa supporters of the two candidates which apparently Dennis got wind of.

[Nadienne]

29. Thank you, William (n/t)

[CMT]

31. I think such a strategy will backfire

but we will find out tonight.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. Does DK have 15% in any of the "precincts?"

[AnAmerican]

38. Actually quite a few.

Not 100% But I seriously doubt ANY candidate will break the 15% viabililty threshold in every single precinct.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

41. Hmmm. Thanks.

[helleborient]

35. Welcome DK the political deal maker...a bit tarnished on the idealist...

So how is DK different from other politicians on anything but specific policy?

[AnAmerican]

39. Hmmmm

Horse-trading during the caucuses....oh..the horror of it all. :eyes:

[goodhue]

40. Kucinich

and Edwards run on hope not fear, possibility not anger

[helleborient]

56. Dean has been running a campaign of hope from the beginning...

And one of the first to support the positive economics of the Clinton administration.

I heard him talk about hope in person last August.

So sad to see supporters of Kucinich and Edwards to believe and disseminate the garbage thrown at Dean by the right wing.

[AnAmerican]

67. **guffaw**

Stop. Your killing me.

Sorry, that Dean ran a campaign of hope stuff just ain't gonna wash.

[rucky]

42. MSNBC actually reported a DK dropout?

I just thought it was more spinning on the message boards. How damaging is that?

Are they retracting? Clarifying? Apologizing?

didn't think so.

That is a terribly irresponsible thing to do on caucus day (or any other day). Also shows how little the media understands, or even cares about politics.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. Oh, I think the media know exactly what they're doing

Sow a little discord on caucus day.

They wouldn't bother if they didn't have a sense that DK was going to do better than expected.

[redqueen]

51. They do indeed

Anything to stop the candidate most likely to actually make good on promises to break up monopolies. Media monopolies included.

[Nadienne]

52. My blood is absolutely boiling.

This just makes me furious.

Now, can there be any doubt in anyone's mind about media bias?!?

[rucky]

61. At least the media doesn't vote in caucuseseseses

the rumor is being debunked as we speak - DK supporters aren't going anywhere & Iowans know it. That's all that matters today.

edit: or is it cauci?

[diamondsoul]

44. Can I have your approval

to disseminate your entire post, please? It would help a lot to relieve some supporters minds I think.*sigh*

[WilliamPitt]

46. Go ahead

[dusty64]

53. Media screws up

a story, who woulda thought. I guess I understand this situation better now and hope Kucinich does well tonight.

[Mass_Liberal]

54. this is why the caucus sytem is dumb

elections are about who you like best. Or at least they should be. Not who you like 2nd best. And it sure as hell shouldn't be about making shady political deals to pitch your voters' support to a different candidate.


In Massachusetts, Bob Reich would be governer if not for some annoying primary deals that kept crappy candidates in the running when they should have been out.

And now we have Mitt. ARRRRRRG


note: even if the system sucks, I'm still excited.

[Adjoran]

55. It only makes sense

to take advantage of the way the caucus system works.

Remember this is precinct by precinct. It is logical that Edwards and Kucinich probably won't both be strong at most of the individual meetings, so where one is stronger, the weaker forces join.

This way Edwards won't take the risk of throwing support to Kerry or Gephardt just to slow down Dean, because that extra help might boost one of his rivals over his own totals.

This is no sordid backroom deal. There is nothing illegal, immoral, unethical, or fattening about it, which is why the reporters were told candidly about it.

[LWolf]

60. And it's the antithesis of "backroom," isn't it?

Supporters will make their choices in full public view.

[AP]

63. No screw up. The editors have an agenda.