Looks like some republicans may be looking for a party soon!

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

Now far be it for me to advocate reaching out, BUT I got an article from the Dallas Morning (Repuke) News in my email inbox and it was quite interesting. I don't have a link, but it's titled "The Elephant in the Room: GOP Schism" and here are some pertinent paragraphs. Notice the name of the "progressive republican" group who feels they have nowhere to go:

"There is no future for moderate and progressive Republicans in the Republican Party," said Jim Scarantino, president of the centrist GOP group Mainstream 2004. "The far right wing and the fanatics have seized control." Mr. Scarantino isn't sure where his brand of Republican politics fits into the GOP. Some Christian conservatives say it doesn't.

"If they can't agree and support the president and the platform, then they ought to go over to the Democrats," said Jan LaRue, chief counsel for the conservative group Concerned Women for America.

For years, moderate and conservative Republicans have coexisted, albeit somewhat awkwardly, agreeing to disagree on issues including abortion, gay rights and the environment. But this year's Republican convention made clear that moderates wield little or no influence, said Mr. Scarantino, whose group was launched by former Republican governors and other officials concerned that the GOP had taken a hard right turn.

<snip>

Ms. LaRue calls Mr. Specter a RINO -- Republican In Name Only -- and questions why politicians such as Sen. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island remain in the Republican Party when they didn't even vote for Mr. Bush. "Get real," she said. "These are Democrats in Republican clothing."

"If you read the platform, it's clearly a pro-life party," he said. "I'm sure anybody is welcome to be a Republican as long as they understand the direction the party is headed in."

<snip>

So. Do we encourage these guys to come on over (after all, we're all for fiscal responsibility, too) or do we just pop some popcorn, set up lawnchairs and watch them cannibalize each other?

[Mistress Quickly]

1. I vote #2

let 'em cannibalize each other.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

6. It would be fun to watch wouldn't it?

Already I am enjoying the Specter thing.

[CanonRay]

2. We Need to Encourage This

Our best hope right now is for the Moderate (read sane) Repulicans to split off an run their own ticket, as the Dixiecrats once did, or for us to actively recruit them, which to me is a more doubtful proposition.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

4. I hadn't thought of them splitting off

but running on their own ticket instead of joining us. Now that is an interesting idea....

[CanonRay]

17. Lincoln Chafee for President

A Chaffee/Barr ticket???????????????????????????????

[Dark]

9. Welcome to DU CanonRay!

But the question is how to divide them. Maybe get the fundamentalists focused on Jesus' teachings regarding being generous to the poor. That would definately put them at odds with the Free Market Repubs.

[CanonRay]

13. A Couple of Divisive Issues

There a couple of issues that I think really piss of the Moderates. First the budget deficit, which I think we should hammer on. Second, the fact that the military is stretched to the breaking point. Third, our global isolation and dectruction of decades old alliances. I think if Blair loses in May, it will be a BIG chink in Bush's armor.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

30. Hey Canon

you must be right, read Thorshammer's post at the bottom of this thread. He's a moderate republican who didn't vote for bush this time, and he mentioned EVERYTHING you just did.

[Vogon_Glory]

23. I Was Once A Moderate Republican Myself

I was once a moderate Republican myself, back in the days of yore when the GOP still had room for people who believed in social programs and actually gave more than lip service to enviornmental protection. I began to notice that the GOP was growing increasingly conservative, even reactionary, in some areas during the Reagan years. My disillusionment with the GOP was complete by end of George HW Bush's term and I've been voting Democrat ever since then.

Mind you, I'm one of the furthest-right regular posters on DU. But I'd welcome some of these people coming over from the Dark Side. But our new converts will have to drop their Sith Party affiliations when we hand them their Donkey ears.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

27. ROFL!

You know, I remember being a teenager and believing that the Democrats and Republicans simply had honest differences of opinions.

I haven't felt that way in quite a few years.

[bullimiami]

3. any sensible person

who is willing to debate and accept all of our differences is welcome. if the light finally switches on for them then I say it is about time.

the big tent has room for all who wish to enter.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

5. I agree

and I certainly wouldn't turn any away, as long as they realize that, in my and many other Democrat's opinions, THIS party has gone about as far right as it EVER needs to.

[CanonRay]

15. Hold Our Ground

I agree, we CANNOT go farther right and stay Democrats. We must hold our ground, even if the Repugs get a lot of their programs passed. I think there is going to be a backlash against the provisions in many of the anti-gay state initiatives once they take effect. The same thing will happen if the right wing proposals actually get passed and take effect.

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. I vote number one

Welcoming them doesn't mean we have to absorb all their ideas. We have a big tent. I'm sure they'd feel more at home disagreeing with a few of our values than they would in the Rethug party, where if you aren't a neocon you're worthless. The more the merrier, I say. Although if they decided to split into their own party, that would be great, too. Split the conservative/independent vote neatly in half and watch us win, baby.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

10. Totally agree.

Either way would be great. The only thing I wouldn't like is if they came over to our party then expected to pull us rightward. I'm already fighting that from the DLC, etc, we don't need that from "progressive" republicans (I didn't know there was such a thing, by the way).

[grasswire]

8. I saw this today...

...When Bob Barr and a Republican senator each hammering Bush.

The senator (the guy who ran for president in plaid shirts a few years ago) wanted to know how many more wars to impose democracy there would be after Afghanistan and Iraq. He was quite stern and said that many Republicans are asking questions.

Bob Barr was all over Bush on budget and fiscal responsibility.

We should start a thread to collect anecdotal evidence.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

11. Yep

we need to seriously pounce on this. Now that the election is over, and they don't feel the need so much to circle the wagons or keep quiet over their objections, we need to use this to OUR advantage as much as possible.

[tandot]

12. These fundie-nazi extremists really think they speak for the majority of

Americans. Hilarious.

They feel empowered because they helped to get lots of ignorant pseudo-Christian voters out to vote for Bush with their "vote for Bush or you go to hell" mantra...

We should really encourage these radical fundamentalists to speak often and loudly about their goals...we'll see how many Americans are looking forward to being dragged back to the Dark Ages...

[CanonRay]

16. Other side of the coin

I agree with this also...the more their Christo-Facist ideas get public airing, and possibly even turned into laws, the more Moderate Republicans are going to jump to our party, or form their own. Not to mention energizing Democrats. Meanwhile we harp on the things that piss of the Moderates. Divide and conquer....

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

18. Yep exactly

which is why some of us are yelling "HEY if you want to protect this supposed 'sanctity' of marriage, you need to OUTLAW DIVORCE!!"


Get them to start saying that and then the Dems will of course pop up looking like our rational and sane selves and say "Um, wow, you want to outlaw divorce? Hmm.."

Watch them become Democrats fast.

Let's see, in the Bible if you remarried after divorce, that was considered adultery and was punishable by death by stoning.

Interesing, huh?

[tandot]

25. how about a bumper sticker:

Protect the Sanctity of Marriage:
Outlaw Divorce...Stone ALL Adulterers

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

29. Stone

might be taken the wrong way by the anti-drug crowd, LOL!

I am going to get a bumpersticker that reads "Jesus was a liberal!"

He was.

[cheshire]

14. Just a thought here, I think that as a whole Moderates from both parties a

are in larger numbers than the extremes on either side. I don't wish to exclude anyone but moderates from both parties are in larger numbers than the extremists. Just a thought.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

20. I agree.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

24. Anytime a party has a convention

they almost always trot out the moderates. That's because the eyes of the country are on the convention and they don't want to scare people off.

Look what happened at the RNC in 92--whew! THAT was a mess of global proportions. The far right took over that convention and scared a LOT of people. Clinton won. Not just because of that, but it certainly helped.

The rock stars at the RNC might have been moderates, but it's pretty clear moderates aren't too welcome in the republican party.

[footinmouth]

42. I remember that convention

We were on vacation and it was back in the days when all the networks covered the conventions, because they had to. We were a captive audience. My husband & I were both planning to vote for Pappy Bush. That convention really was an eye opener. We knew absolutely nothing about Clinton at the time, but after listening to Pat Buchanan we decided we could no longer even consider voting Republican. I said how can I possibly support a party that hates everything I stand for. We've voted straight Democratic since then and have not looked back.

[ThorsHammer]

19. I'm here

Disclaimer: Moderate Republican, but not here to flame. I found this site by accident and joined in order to have honest, respectful discussion with those who have different views than me. I'm probably more conservative than most on this board, but am also a huge believer in talking with those who differ and will respect their views, as I hate the polarized red=bad, blue=good (or vice versa) mentality that has emerged recently.

Anyway, I voted for Bush in 00 but not this time. CannonRay mentioned many of the issues that led to this decision. I supported Afghanistan, but not Iraq. I have no problems with hunting down the terrorists on their own turf, but IMO Iraq is a diversion from the real problems (Al Queda, Iran, N. Korea). It was foolish to discard global alliances, and even more foolish to lack a post war plan for success. I really feat that this could be the Viet Nam of this generation, in that we're incurring huge losses of life for a war that is tough to win in a country that doesn't want us there. We need to rebuild our global alliances, and I fear Bush is too set in his ways to do this. Our military appears to be stretched thin, and any further conflicts could be disastrous. Finally, I don't support the huge deficit, and think things could get even worse with Iraq and a slow economy.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

22. Well

Moderate Republican, you didn't say a single thing I disagree with. I think you'll be quite welcome here!

Thanks for posting, I enjoyed reading it. I hope you enjoy DU!

I know a lot of people who voted for bush in 00, but not in 04. You are in good company.

Welcome to DU!

[LondonReign2]

26. Welcome Thors!

Welcome to DU. Hope you bring like-minded others along.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

28. Let me add on to

London's post by saying anyone who writes like Thorshammer did would be welcome here.

It's the obvious bush supporters that really don't belong here.

[CanonRay]

32. Double Welcome

...and let me add one more issue; Illegal Immigration. Not sure how you feel about this, but most working people HATE the idea of any amnesty, and feel our borders should be secure. This is an issue that, if the Democrats got behind, could split off the moderate Republicans. Texas, New Mexico, and Arizona would all have Democratic majorities.

Anyway, I would be a buck that you are probably not much more conservative than me. I'm an officer in our county party, and probably one of the more conservative Democrats that are active. The thought of a Christo-Facist semi-theocracy scares the hell out of me, however.

[Touchdown]

31. Whatever happens. It's up to them.

It's their party, and it's not my place to advise them on what they should do. The biggest pet peeve of mine about the GOP is that they condescend to tell us how to run our party (Appease Republicans), tell us who we should have nominated (Lieberman), and even try to change our party name (The Democrat-without the "ic" Party). Then they say it's the conrtol of the radical leftists, who let Michael Moore talk that made us lose in what they call a "landslide".:eyes:

Let the GOP work out their problems on their own, or self destruct, whichever comes first. Some may want to join us. We're always here, and they know what we stand for, but let them make their own destiny. I already have a party to worry work on improving, and that's enough work for me.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

33. Well I can't disagree with any of that, either.

And I'm really in no mood to court anyone, though they are perfectly welcome to join us, as long as they realize we aren't going to the right.

[Lex]

34. Here's a link to the article, if anyone want to read the whole thing.

http://www.fox11az.com/news/other/stories/KMSB-20041115-dnbp-schism.5c70445e.html

Use account: [email protected]
Use password: jacire

[txindy]

35. Well, exactly what's wrong with these moderates?

Do they think we still have separate branches of govt.? Congress is now just another pool of dittoheads for B*sh. Checks and balances? Anachronisms from the Dark Ages of the 20th century.

Why do these moderates hate 'Murika? :crazy:

We at first and then we

[bluestategoddess]

36. They need support

I think that moderate Republicans need all the support they can get right now. It would be great if some of them came over to our side but even if they don't, we need to show them there are Dems willing to help them out.

[rexcat]

43. I don't agree with you...

The moderate Republicans need to help us out. If they want Democrats to help them they have to prove to us they are worthy of that help and that means supporting some of the Democrats initiatives and to counter the right wing agenda.

[liberalitch]

37. Little of column A and a little column B

They ARE fellow Americans so we must respect their right to express a different point of view.
When they side with us... show the love.
When they don't..... well you know the rest.

people have the right to be conservative... just not to legislate their morality to us.... and if we support them when the RW comes down on them then they (most likely) will vote with us on the really important stuff...
THey may even be willing to play stump the chump (or chimp) with us.

[ThorsHammer]

38. Thanks for the kind words everyone

Just wanted to clarify, I'm not here to court people to the right, nor to "spew right-wing bullshit" (mentioned in an earlier thread). I'm in no way a Bush supporter, and am pissed that we could elect someone like that.

Moonbeam, great point on divorce. IMO, that is a far greater threat to the 'sanctity' marriage than gay marriage could ever be. As a straight male who has had minimal exposure to homosexuals, I can't really say I am personally used to it or comfortable with it yet, but this makes no difference as it is not my business how others lead their lives (i.e., Conservative viewpoint, but not wanting to legislate my views on others). I do find it hypocritical that the right wants to discourage them from entering into a commitment, yet pays no attention to the divorce rate. I still do not see any harm nor potential harm that could come from allowing it. Sure, people may be uncomfortable with the idea, as they are with most new things and experiences, but this shouldn't make a difference as it doesn't harm anyone. The const. amendment pissed me off too, and I would go so far to say that a true conservative would believe in the Constitution being used to uphold people's rights, not deny them.


CanonRay - agreed, that would be a great thing to get behind. I think you could get a lot of conservatives and moderates aboard (at least those who don't depend on cheap labor). I'm a firm believer in immigration, as that is what made this country great, but we have to keep it to legal immigration. One quote I always liked,although I can't remember who said it: "We must close the back door of illegal immigration in order to keep open the golden door of legal immigration."

Liberalitch, - that was what I was saying above. I am probably more conservative than most here, but don't believe in imposing/legislating morality.

[Lugnut]

40. Hi ThorsHammer!

:hi:

I didn't vote for GWB in 2000 however I haven't disagreed with anything you've posted so far. :)

[demokatgurrl]

39. Let's just get over Specter. He is a FORMER Democrat who

sold his soul to the Republican party.

[info being]

41. Kinda late for all that

[blindpig]

44. let the moderate republicans and the DLCers form their own party

not just flamebait, more people would have their views better represented. The 2 party system sucks in any case.