Gay Marriage or Swift Boat Vets of Liars? Why did Kerry lose?

[socalover]

As the right wing media tries to frame Bush's victory on "moral values". People, sit and think back pre election to the Repuke convention instilling fear in Americans by mentioning 9/11 a million times. Think back to the Swift Boat Liars and their ads. Think back to the scare tactics that these people used including saying Kerry took a poll after the OBL video came out. Their entire campaign was based on fear and that Bush will protect the American people and Kerry wont.

Today they are telling us Kerry lost because of Gay marriage. While I agree we must respect the religious beliefs of all Americans, and I do agree with Clinton on this issue, the fact remains that the main reason Bush won was their fear mongering tactics.

[NightTrain]

1. It's "lose," not "loose."

:eyes:

[BluegrassDem]

2. Gay marriage

Kerry missed his chance to win over the heartland and this election.

All he had to do was rail against judges who enact law and that would've made him look very moderate. But he kept silent. Clinton did the same thing when he spoke against Sista Souljah in 1992. It did piss a lot of black people off, but damn it, he won. And black people love him. I think Kerry should've been out in front on gay marriage and actively against it. If he did, Bush wouldn't have been re-elected.

[Selatius]

4. You're forgetting Ross Perot

He fragmented the electorate in Clinton's favor even though Clinton didn't win the popular vote. He did the same thing, although less, in 1996. Clinton won, but that was thanks to Senior Bush's "read my lips" promise in the first election and Perot in both elections. Let's be honest with why Clinton won here.

As far as gay marriage or civil unions, I'm for it. It's an issue of civil rights. I don't care who other people choose to marry. Frankly, it's none of anyone's business except those who choose to marry or whatever.

[sonicx]

5. read this article...

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109275

[Selatius]

7. Nice read!

[AgadorSparticus]

3. none of the above. kerry didn't lose. this is a fraudulent election.

[LittleClarkie]

13. That's the hardest part to take

Everyone assuming the mandate, from Farwell and Robertson to people like Rush and Hannity having a ball gloating. Moral values?! Where is the moral value in cheating and getting out the hate vote.

I will say that I think perhaps Kerry needs to think more nationally next time. This was his first foray into national campaigning. I'm sure things are different in Massachusetts.

[Walt Starr]

6. Kerry lost because he let the regressives define him and all of the issues

It was pretty blatant, too.

[Donna Zen]

8. Ditto

Although I agree that the voting methods are a piece of shit in this country, we needed to go into Tues. with a wider margin. Starting with the flip-flop meme, the ability to get the message out was lost to the noise machine.

What is curious to me from watching the entire campaign unfold, was how caught off-guard the K campaign seemed to be by the rightwing attacks. In the case of the Swiftliars, DUers saw it coming months before the actual ads ran. On another forum, someone was watching these anti-Dem vet groups closely, and posted what they were up to.

So I shake my head, but that doesn't change the peril we find ourselves in.

ps We also knew the machines etc. would be rigged. So why did the Dems say little less nothing prior to the event. I'm not talking about DU, I'm talking about the people at the top.

[LittleClarkie]

12. The media bias didn't help

him to get his message out either. We all saw how they barely covered him half the time.

[WI_DEM]

9. Neither

I'm not saying they didn't contribute to the fundie turnout, but what I think really was the reason Kerry didn't win the popular vote is because people didn't understand his position on Iraq and the vote against the $87 billion never got a good explanation from Kerry ("What's worse the way I put it or the policy" didn't satisfy many, Senator Kennedy himself warned Kerry of this). Also, while I certainly came away with a much higher opinion of Kerry, I think many in the country didn't warm to the man.

[evilqueen]

10. I think it was the gay swiftboat liars.

*smirk*

Let's face it, we need a better media message machine so we can hypnotize the electorate and counteract the Dumbass messages coming from the other side.

[dogman]

11. These things and more.

B$$$co was allowed to make the election about Kerry and his record. B$$$ could not run on his own record. The media was totally complicit in this tactic. We have come over many years since our founding to rely on the press to be the honest arbitrar of truth. Like many things in our society things have changed greatly and anti-trust laws and monopoly have been allowed to favor the elite powerbrokers. I don't know if it is possible under the present setup to get an honest message out to the people. Incumbency elections are normally based on whether or not people approve of the job done by the incumbent. Kerry made his service a main point of his campaign and through lies and slurs they were able to destroy his credibility. It was claimed that a small 527 was able to do this but truthfully the month plus of free MSM exposure dwarfed bought ads. Gay marriage isn't even in the perview of a President but they also tied this to Kerry just by the virtue of the Mass. connection. The likelihood of electoral fraud gave them a solid plan B.