Can we talk Kucinich?

[mdmc]

I supported Dean in the primaries. I was comfortable with Kerry (I didn't like Edwards, but thought he could get his Mill Worker Son message out in Ohio).

We lost - we should have just run Kucinich. At least then we would have a place to stand now. And Nader would have supported us! :~)

[cheezus]

1. I'd sure feel better now having lost voting for the Kooch

[info being]

2. I supported DK and I agree. If you're gonna lose, lose with style.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. I already did talk Kucinich

I'm not going to write that post twice. :-)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1315551#1319341

[mdmc]

4. thanks for the link

PEACE!

[lynintenn]

5. no way

[GreenPartyVoter]

6. I was always a Dennis gal too. That reminds me, I gotta congratulate

him for going back to the Hill again.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
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[GreenPartyVoter]

7. Had a nice virtual cry on his shoulder.. or one of his staffers. Who

knows?

*lol*

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[Captain Lance Bass]

8. We would have been slaughtered with dennis

Sorry but he would have made Dukakis look like John Wayne.
He has some damn good ideas but he is considerd a "whack job tree hugger". Dennis up against Bush's war and 9/11 fear mentality would have gotten us 10% of the vote we did on Tuesday.

I like him and his ideas but no chance in hell he would have helped.

[eridani]

20. FUCK what anybody is CONSIDERED straight to hell and back!

There you go again--letting the Rethugs choose the frame of the debate. Bush is weak on 9/11, and Kucinich (or Dean, for that matter) would have attacked him on it.

He would have been in Florida hammering on increasing the minimum wage and stopping outsourcing. He would have gotten some of the 60goddampercent of BUSH voters who also voted to not only raise the minimum wage, but index it to inflation.

[leftofthedial]

9. I supported Kucinich in the primaries

I should have realized when the Dems marginalized DK that this was no longer the party of FDR.

[jacksonian]

10. what a comment

political forces don't let themselves be maginalized. I like DK but let's be real - he didn't have a plan that was going to do better than 47% nationwide.

It takes more than good ideas, it takes political muscle and an experienced organization. Politics will marginalize anyone, that's the system. If you're sittin' tall, you can beat it. I don't mean DK wasn't a good candidate, it was just his first national trial. He'll be back.

If DK wants to run nationally, first he needs to prove he can win the enitre state of Ohio. If he can't do that, what's the point? If he did that, no one would be able to marginalize him.

[leftofthedial]

11. thanks for proving my point

we aren't about anything anymore except being proficient at playing the game inside the party. Ideas? Irrelevant. Principles? The only principle is winning.

That's why half the people in the country don't vote.

[jacksonian]

12. no you are missing the point

you need an organization, and you need more than ideas. I didn't make up the rules.

Being proficient within the party is the stepping stone to being proficient with more oppositional forces. They are large, they will get you, and you have to have the experience to deal.

I'm sorry, but there is no job worth having in the world that doesn't require you to play politics at some level. Politics without ideas is pandering, ideas without politics is masterbation.

[leftofthedial]

13. I know you didn't make up the rules

that doesn't change the fact that playing by "the rules" is what has won us a majority in a presidential election only once the last 40 years. Being proficient within the party unequivocally has now been proven to be a LOSING qualification.

I don't need you to preach to me about the role of politics in life. I've been in one of the most political industries there is for 35 years.

Why hasn't any candidate with power in the party espoused the basic commitment to social justice and the American worker inherent in FDR's policies? Because the Democratic Party is no longer committed to those ideals, that's why.

Whether Kucinich is the candidate or someone else, there is no room left in the party's mainstream for a liberal.

[jacksonian]

18. Candidates don't talk in economic populism

this is true. They should. Why they do is for their own purposes, to win I suppose.

But the point is that nobody is stopping DK from going mainstream. It's true the Dem party is a bunch of people who will step on you to further themselves, hey, this is politics. If they don't weed themselves out, the Repugs will do it for them.

But DK has to operate in that world. I said very simply, if DK wants to be a national force, then he can get there, with whatever message he likes by having a statewide office. I think DK would make a great governor, don't you? There's a Senate seat in 2006, too.

If there are voters for a liberal, then there's room in the party.

[leftofthedial]

15. BTW, I agree "we" have to have political muscle and organization

our message has failed us and has alienated much of our traditional base.

Good ideas and good politics aren't mutually exclusive.

If the Dems want to be the party of the center, they should go for it, but it obviously isn't working.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

14. The only way we could win with Kucinich

would be to find a way to get the social justice message out to those people who don't vote (which is easier said than done). The electorate as it stands now certainly wouldn't give Kucinich a plurality, which is why we'd need to significantly extend the electorate.

[sweetheart]

16. I agree, Dennis was the right candidate

He has the most coherent message by far, and one with total
integrity. I really think the problem are dems who trade away
integrity for what they think is "electability". Then the integrity
of the ticket is in question, and people looking for moral firmament
vote for <something>.

That is not to say i don't have intense intense respect for Senator
Kerry (is he still a senator?).

We have to bury clintonism and the DLC with it, or the whole party
will die as a permanent chameleon of incoherent republican-lite'ism.

With dennis, there was complete coherence, that would have allowed
us to argue with our hearts for a real return to a nation of the
people, and not one for the corporatists, imperialists and war haters.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

21. you are right on target.

[okieinpain]

17. nice guy, he wouldn't go far.

[mdmc]

19. still, worthy of discussion

:kick:

[davepc]

22. Kucinich is to 2004/08 as Barry Goldwater was to 1964