I fuckin' told you so

[mopaul]

i swear i've read it and wrote it a thousand times up in here. 'what will happen if they steal it again?' 'will there be rioting in the streets?' 'will there be a civil uprising and thousands of angry villagers surrounding the white house?'

none of that dramatic stuff, none of that 'heroic' stuff is going to happen. what will happen is exactly what i and many others predicted would happen: NOTHING.

we will roll over and take it in the ass again, like we always do. mentioning civil unrest or massive demonstrations around the white house may get you locked around here. 'taking it to the streets' is just an old song by the hippie brothers.

any mention of getting pissed off and downright angry and making a loud noise of protest around here and someone will say, 'o.k. hero, go for it'. or, i don't want to lose my cushy job or lose a weekend.
railing against the tyrants is so tedious and bothersome and messy. maybe later when more people are there to back me up.

THIS is why we lost the election. apathy, luxury, excess, materialism's glare, distraction. there's no anger in us, only defeatism and the need to conform to social standards and play ball and be nicey nice. no one wants the annoyance of a revolution.

we get fucked over AGAIN by trying to be better than the enemy nazis, and trying to be reasonable with them. you can't. they don't capitulate, they are fucking nazis.

so a lot of us will sigh and whine a collective whine and sit around wondering how we always get fucked over by the nazis. and i always come back to the same ugly realization:

the nazis who stole 00 and 04, the nazis who killed 100,000 innocent people, the nazis who've ordered a thousand young sons into their graves and plan on killing untold thousands more, the nazis who are robbing our treasury and kicking off ww3, did it all, and stole it all, and killed them all WITH OUR TACIT APPROVAL. NO ONE STOPPED THEM, and no one is stopping them now. they will do whatever they are ALLOWED to do, by us.

i keep telling you all that these men are actual nazis, that's not just a cheap insult i sling around to make a point. THEY ARE NAZIS.
and you can't deal with nazis.

i fuckin' told you so.

[PretzelWarrior]

1. you were right. however...I am seriously considering quitting my job...

and becoming a full time activist for Democratic causes including justice for the poor here at home and the abused overseas at the hands of US foreign policy.

I have no idea yet how I'll make ends meet. It will probably fuck up my life big time....but I just don't see where I have any choice if any of this means anything to me.

[G_j]

2. well, not everyone..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1310397
------------

[lapislzi]

3. mopaul, that's not fair

Plenty of us made plenty noise. Plenty people tried to stop them. Repeatedly. I think your righteous anger is misdirected. Nobody, at least not on these boards, tacitly approved the killing of any of our young men and women. Maybe you need to qualify which "us" you're referring to. I never sat still for any of this, nor do I plan to in the future. The last four years have nearly bankrupted me (donations); strained my relationship with my SO and daughter (time spent at political meetings and events); hurt me at my job (see above, plus being viewed as a dangerous nut job by co-workers); taken a toll on my health (I eat Prilosec like candy). Please, please, please, as angry as you are, don't turn on your fellows.

Your post raises another interesting point...about nazis. You know how they say you can't negotiate with terrorists? Same thing. You can't negotiate with nazis. But what you CAN do is the same in both cases. You can figure out what's pissing them off so goddam much and try to understand it and address it. Where is their hatred coming from? Personally, I can't get my head that far up my ass to understand what goes on in the fundy mind. But maybe someone from our side can.

mopaul, we're on your side. Really.

[mopaul]

16. and i'm on your side

of course, i have no truck with people like you, you did the right thing, many of us did. and i'm not turning on my fellow, just yelling at them. this forum is for acrimony and fighting. we are really fighting the nazis, not each other. but i am pissed off and here is where i go.

but we are just not angry enough yet. we are too forgiving. nazis love that.

[Flammable Materials]

18. This is for you, mopaul.

:)

http://www.flammablematerials.com/poster.doc

[lapislzi]

30. I know where you're going

and I agree with you.

But it needs to be part of a larger disruptive strategy, not the only strategy. Everyone will need to play a part and THAT part isn't going to be for everyone.

Let's talk about the ANC. I have some experience and knowledge that I can share.

[Walt Starr]

4. Where's the evidence "they stole it"

All I see is a completely legitimate result. I see no hard evidence of "stealing" whatsoever.

IMO, we got our asses kicked and the sooner we admit it and learn from it, the better off everybody will be so we can work for 2006.

[mopaul]

5. they stole it with lies and mind control

see, you are buying it too

[Walt Starr]

8. Show me the hard evidence

No more conspiracy theory bullshit. Show me the evidence!

[mopaul]

9. walt, my friend...

...there is no hidden conspiracy, they did it in plain sight. they fooled millions of born agains into the suicide booths and made them drink the cool aid. stolen by lies, not numbers. i hope you see that, i see your point.

[Walt Starr]

10. That's NOT "stealing"

That was a legitimate election result. There was no theft. They won fair and square.

[mopaul]

11. if lies get you votes, that's not legitimate

if your vote for a man was based on huge lies he told you, that's not legitimate. counting beans is one thing, counting votes based on lies is another.

if bush lies, 'i'll make you safer', and someone votes for him on that lie, it's not legitimate.

i don't care if bush got 60 billion votes, the voters were fooled.

[H2O Man]

17. If everyone who wants to vote

is not allowed to, because of the organized activities of the political party that they oppose, many people will view that as theft.

[American Tragedy]

22. We weren't.

Millions of people weren't fooled, because they have consistently been transparent. Remember when Rumsfeld said that he knew exactly where the weapons were located, but couldn't reveal the locations to the inspectors for 'national security reasons'? Remember that crap performance that Colin Powell put on with the blurry photos of trucks and testimonies from people who had a vested interest in eliminating Saddam Hussein? Remember how they pulled the inspectors before they had even finished searching, because they were desperately afraid to let the world see that there was nothing to be found there? I recognized it then, and present conditions have vindicated my conclusions. If they didn't at the time, then they surely should see it now.

People have minds of their own, and they are responsible for their own decisions. They saw what they wanted to see, but the truth was always right in front of them.

[independentpiney]

25. that's it really- they control the msm

nazis depend on media control to disseminate propaganda, and they've done it very effectively for 4+ years. Their campaigning never stops, and until an objective media presents the unfiltered facts instead of punditry and propaganda, the less involved and curious masses who rely on msm will support them.

[DemExpat]

29. They chose to believe this! After Moore's 9/11, the debates,

reports on WMD.....they still chose to back the macho lies.

But I also think that many votes were stolen too....

:nuke:

DemEx

[bear425]

21. Why have the absentee ballots in Florida not been counted yet?

There are supposed to be hundreds of thousands of them - enough the make up the losing difference.

[Pobeka]

24. Faun Otter has given us something serious to chew on.

Pandorasox displayed it.

This is also not cherry-picking results.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=11874#18980

[gator_in_Ontario]

20. It was stolen

legally maybe...using psychology and fear...but it was stolen.

[shrub chipper]

15. I agree, Walt

If we keep obsessing over the machines, we are never going to address the real issues that made us LOSERS on Tuesday.

It would certainly make me FEEL better to think it was stolen, because trying to figure out why we couldn't beat the worst Peresident in History is going to be very painful.

It's too easy to just say "WE WON, THEY STOLE IT" and that doesn't help us win next time.

[Kolesar]

6. bush still has the war to deal with

I am sick of hearing the post-mortem pundits droning on about "values" as an issue on Tuesday.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1315465

[G_j]

7. if we the 'people' don't

oppose what is happening on the grass roots level, then there is nothing to stop them.
Politicians are NOT going to help us at all. We are on our own.

[mopaul]

12. we are on our own

we the people are left hanging. these men are not the type that you can reason with, these men are the type that must be physically, actually stopped. or they'll do whatever the fuck they want to do, including reincarnating the fourth reich.

[Deja Q]

13. When the economy disintegrates, the people will respond.

At that point, they will have no jobs or security and will realize that * was NEVER there to help them.

[sendero]

14. Sadly...

.... that I agree with.

When the average idiot realizes that the economic pie he thought he was getting a slice of is fucking GONE, then they will wake up. Not until then.

It's hard to put a timeframe on it, but if Repugs stay in power it won't be more than a decade, of that much I'm sure.

[Mend]

19. Totally Agree

It is the economy, stupid.....let the boycotts begin.

[American Tragedy]

23. But at least gay people thousands of miles away won't marry

[Q]

26. Without even reading this thread first...

...I'll predict that some will ask for EVIDENCE or some kind of proof that cheating took place. I'll answer it this way: there are two types of thieves. A bad or inexperienced criminal will probably blunder his way through...leaving fingerprints and EVIDENCE. This is the kind of criminal that usually gets caught and have very short 'careers'.

- And then there's the expert criminal who more than likely has been at it all this life. This is his 'work'...it's what he does. Many of these professional (career) thieves wear suits and ties. They are careful and never leave fingerprints or drop evidence that could lead back to them.

- I'm generally surprised that more people don't understand that...like Nixon...the Bushies have professional liars and thieves on the payroll. But they're much better at their work than the Nixon gang and they have a bigger slush fund to pay peole off. Even when they get caught (exposing a CIA agent or not doing their jobs on 911)...they simply pull out a roll of cash and cover it up.

- The only way you'll get any kind of evidence on these professional criminals is to hold impeachment hearings or real investigations. But what's the odds of this happening?

- On edit:

It's clear that the Bushies never expected the votes to be counted before Kerry conceded. Thus...any kind of vote theft ot election fraud wouldn't be uncovered until long after the fact. This is one of the reasons the networks tried to draw out the night...announcing Bush* results and not Kerry's until the last moment. It's also why CNN and others had giant headlines the following morning: BUSH IS SURE HE WON. It was a foregone conclusion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I Have A Question

Don't you see the logical hurdles of asking your opponents on this issue to prove a negative?

I don't think George Bush stole 3,400,000 votes...If you looked at all the public opinion polling in it's entirety before the election you will see that this was an extremely close race with the smallest of edge to Bush...

Is this meant to be exculpatory of all this administration's misdeeds?

Of course not..

However, they kicked our asses...

Next time we will kick theirs...

[Evergreen Emerald]

27. Let's DO something.

What?

[mopaul]

31. kick