The Democratic Party has a problem, and it has to face it.

[Bread and Circus]

Blaming the media, the asshole Republicans, and the
dumb 'Murakins isn't going to cut it.

If people don't understand the issues, then Dems have to
do a better job of framing the debate and educating them.

Dems need to:

Clean house at the highest levels of the party.
Totally revamp the primary system, it's a waste of time and money.
Establish and grow progressive churches/synogogues/mosques/etc that further the message of peace, love, and tolerance. The tacit
support for war, hate, commericilism, and thoughtlessness that is codified in current religious institutions is abhorrent.
Get a real progressive News channel/news network that doesn't mind exposing and driving the home the image of the transgressions and failings of our gov't. The spirit of DU should be packaged as a
"fact-finging/truth-checking" clearinghouse on what is really happening - but it should cut both ways, not be just a chimeric
mirror of Fox (fake) news.

Losing ground in all Branches of gov't should be a wake up call
and time to start preparing for mid-term elections.

The DNC had nearly as much money as the Republicans this time,
over $300,000,000, there can be no excuse.

If we want to "moveon", we have no one to hold responsible but
the Democratic Party.

And in case anyone thinks I am a Freep plant, I gave $2,000 to
Wes Clark during the primaries, $2,000 to Kerry for the GE. I had
a lot invested in this but I am not angry.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

1. Can you fucking wait till results are final??

:eyes:

[Bread and Circus]

7. I don't care whether or not Kerry squeeks out Ohio. The over

all picture is that the Dems have a lot of money, is right
on the issues, but keeps losing ground.

Something's got to change and until it does, this trend won't
go away.

I know people are sore so I'll say little else on this for now.

[PretzelWarrior]

9. we're starting to let reality set in. this ain't FLA 2000

this one is tilted further against Kerry with the popular vote thing.

Come on, the way you guys are going on...you act like if the margin of victory on regular ballots = total provisional ballots we have it sewed up.

Even saying there is a 90% rate of provisionals that stand up to challenge and are counted and 90% of those are for Kerry, you're still hosed.

Soo....people are just speaking reality here.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. It doesn't matter what the outcome is.

This is the truth. The party needs to be overhauled and do a better job of getting its message out. Even if Kerry manages to win despite all thi craziness, he would face the obstacle of governing despite all those evangelicals and social conservatives who think Democrats and liberals are evil, depraved homosexual baby-killing, gun-confiscating, America-hating Satanists who speak French and don't love Jesus.

[Democat]

30. Look at the popular vote, the Senate, and the House - the vote is final!

No matter if Kerry finds a way to win, the vote is pretty fucking final.

We lost!

[Guaranteed]

2. You're definitely not a freep.

Good post.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

3. I worry that the party will try even harder to emulate the RW.

I love your ideas though, and I agree.

[Free2BMe]

4. Thank you ..you're right..1,000 fundamentalist churches in Ohio...

united and backed the GOP bid...and guess what?? We have our work cut out for us...Things in our country couldn't be worse, GB lost debates...yet,,, just mention God and .....shame...heresy,,,death and destruction...

[Boomer]

5. The problem is not the Democratic Party

"If people don't understand the issues, then Dems have to do a better job of framing the debate and educating them."

Don't kid yourself that all we have to do is educate those who voted for Bush. The American people understand the issues just fine -- and they've decided that hating gay people and killing Iraqis is a "moral" issue that they want to support.

[sendero]

6. I dunno....

.. I think right now what we really need is paper evoting receipts. This election does not pass the smell test.

[fujiyama]

8. It's hard to compete with homophobia

That's what it comes down to. That and fear.

The south (and the rest of the nation as well) is obviously scared of gays. It's very disturbing but this was a TRUE and clear victory of a combination of the southern strategy meets the fear of those that are attracted to people of the same sex.

I hate to say it but I don't see dems winning as long as gay marriage is an issue. The Massachussets ruling hurt us. So did Newsom. I wholeheartedly agreed with both, but as long as these were kept in the spotlight...we were fucked, Iraq and the economy be damned.

[cali]

10. It is a good post and

I think you're right about key points. I don't know if I'm angry. I'm mostly stunned and grief stricken. I almost can't believe how badly I feel.

[RogueTrooper]

11. Your right

Even if we manage to win in Ohio we still need to sort out the problems in the Democratic Party. I have a feeling that, what ever happens, we are about to witness the rise of the Dean\Clark Democrats.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bread and Circus]

19. I did listen to Dean, and I think he should be one of the new

leaders of the party (in some ways, he already is). But,
I don't think he was the right horse to run. I didn't then
and I don't now. I would love to see him replace McAuliffe though.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

14. Why should the Democrats be more like Republicans?

I don't want the party to pander to the religious groups. This fcountry is not (yet) a theocracy. I'm tired of this "we should reach out to churches" crap. What we have here is an electorate that, as seen from the various exit polling, considers "moral values/issues" (read: gay marriage, stem cell research, abortion) more important than the freaking economy or the war in Iraq that's costing U.S. lives. This is what is so disgusting.

As long as 1) young people do not vote; 2) many people do not vote at all; and 3) the religious nuts go to vote in droves like lemmings, I see no hope whatsoever.

[Bread and Circus]

24. You can't run away from Religion, it's not going to go away.

It will always be a factor.

The problem is that people are getting indoctrinated in a perversion
of Christianity. Right now, in my area most churches have
"support our troops" staked in the front yard. That's the problem
that needs to be corrected.I'd like to be able to take my children
to a place where we could discuss love and tolerance in the celebration
of some higher power. Right now, I couldn't stomach to sit in any
church within a 60 mile radius because they are intellectually and
morally bankrupt. The churches should be outraged at the war and the
slaughter that goes on, instead they've codified the language and
ultimately support the opposite message.

Rural "Bush Country" is what the Democratic party needs to start
to understand for it is that part of the electorate that will probably
put him back in power.

[OKNancy]

15. Good post

If we are to be viable as a party, we need to appeal to people's better nature. Also the party does need to re-organize and work on an "educating the populace" plan of some sort.

[Cooley Hurd]

16. No, the problem IS with the media!

On how many news outlets did you see stories on voter disenfranchisment from 2000? Or stories correcting the bullshit charges made by the Bush assholes in regards to the trashing of the WH by Big Dog? Or stories about how Bush ignored terror warnings in 2001, despite being warned repeatedly of the threat by outgoing Clinton admin officials? Or stories about how he sat in a classroom for 10 minutes while the country was under attack? Or stories on how * was deeply opposed to the creation of the 9/11 commission? Or stories on how they cooked intel going into the the Iraq war?

The list is MUCH longer that this, but the MEDIA failed to properly inform the American people at EVERY TURN on the crimes of this admin, and because of that, the American people failed to make an informed choice.

[durablend]

18. The people weren't interested in Kerry...

"GUNS, GOD, (no) GAYS, (no) ABORTION AND TERROR"...all they were interested in. They turned everything else off. Got no job? Gas prices too high? No healthcare? Blah, we're more worried about gay people in the neighborhood doing abortions.

:mad:

[kayell]

20. Um. BBV, Exit poll variance ONLY in FL and OH? Gee, it must be US.

[yankeedem]

21. Agreed.... Was thinking the same thing

Whatever we are saying is not getting through to them....

[drdigi420]

22. we lost to the rednecks, bigoted holy rolling rednecks

stupid people outnumber intelligent people

its that simple

[OKNancy]

28. And as long a a good portion of the

populace thinks that is what Democrats think of them, we will always lose.

[QC]

32. Very true.

Do you think there's any chance of so-called "progressives" who heap scorn on the Great Unwashed, of whom the poster of this thread is such a sterling example, someday realizing that their supercilious, contemptuous attitude toward the common people feeds the powerful stereotype of the "elitist liberal" and thus does the Right's work for them?

Or is it just too much fun to gripe about the hicks for that to matter to them?

[Bread and Circus]

29. Then you either have to get rid of democracy, get rid of

stupid people, or perhaps try to make them less stupid
(i.e. less ignorant).

Which do you think is the most reasonable and progressive choice?

[drdigi420]

31. i say make them less stupid, but religion keeps them ignorant

[Hav]

23. .

Dems = the most inept political party I have ever seen or the Americans are just stupid (sorry).
But how could any other politician with such a record like Bush survive this?

[meti57b]

25. excellent post, I'm sure you're right, although right now,....

my thoughts are that the Democratic Party should have refuted the swift boat ads in August, and done even more negative advertising and sooner.

The republicans just ran a real dirty campaign, ... the flip-flop thing, the unfit for command thing ... all lies. Although realistically, people seemed ready to buy into it even though they could see bush's lies and his lack of any real interest in the details of government clearly every day in the news.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

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[Bread and Circus]

27. That's cute...and your post tells me I'm on to something.

[PatsFan2004]

33. Excellent, enlightening post

How do we deal with the so-called "number one" issue of the voters: "moral values"?