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Kerry winning Exit Polls - FRAUD LOOKS PROBABLE

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EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:57 AM
Original message
Kerry winning Exit Polls - FRAUD LOOKS PROBABLE
SoCalDem done a statistical analysis...

...on several swing states, and EVERY STATE that has EVoting but no paper trails has an unexplained advantage for Bush of around +5% when comparing exit polls to actual results.

In EVERY STATE that has paper audit trails on their EVoting, the exit poll results match the actual results reported within the margin of error.

So we have MATCHING RESULTS for exit polls vs. voting with audits

vs.

A 5% unexplained advantage for Bush without audits.

Maybe Dubayah believes God will see him through this, but it's going to take more than blind faith to pull the wool over the data and the facts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1290765&mesg_id=1290765

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rockydem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. wow
just wow....

This is going to be a wild ride.
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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
35. This is what I can't figure out............
We knew the repubs were going to try to steal e-votes again this election in some states. Well, while Bev Harris was working on law suits, why weren't we Dems out there hiring the best hackers to steal some votes from the repubs, just to even the playing field?

You have to fight fire with fire, or you'll just get burned. I know I'm feeling toasty right now.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #35
79. This is why the dems keep losing. Because we play fair and go by the
rules while the repukes lie, cheat and steal right in front of us and we won't go for the jugular.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's the smoking gun.
We have to get this to the Kerry campaign.
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LiberteToujours Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is exactly what DUers have been predicting for months
So, what are we gonna do about it??
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kokomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. We have been dissing Diebold for a couple of years, but to no avail
The clock just went back to "1984"
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moosedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
85. who do we blame?
I can't believe that people believed that they didn't rig the last election and blamed it on not getting enough votes. Now I guess we still aren't getting enough Dems. Well, how long will it take for people to see that they don't play fair and stop playing their way. We voted an absentee vote, but I doubt it made any difference. Evil reigns when good men do nothing.....expose them.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. We need to blast this info
to the media!
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. kick
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Rush1184 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Someone shoild shoot this to the media!
Let the country know!!!
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shampton Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. yes. it needs to get out
to the media. Does SolCalDem have an argument written? I'm new here;does anyone have contacts with the media? I did see a news item crediting Kos.
We cannot give way.
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:09 AM
Response to Reply #8
27. More than just the media
We cannot rely on the media to tell the truth to the people. The media whores for Rove, and this is going to be spun as a Bush victory.

We need to put this information on flyers and post them everywhere in Democratic areas, *now*
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bigpathpaul Donating Member (623 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
55. Here's a DU link to media outlets:
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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
65. Here.
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fwiff Donating Member (184 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Who is the contact?
Suggest you set up a contact either solo or with org's/campaign so we can blast it.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. Should get this to Kerry......maybe PeteNYC can help.
I'm sick over this. We have the makings of a real constitutional crisis.

Who needs assassinations, when you can win by cooking the vote?
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Strabo Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. posted this in another thread, but it was too far in, no one saw it...
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 03:23 AM by Strabo
I'm too exhausted (in every way measurable) to do this myself, so here's homework for everyone.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

That page lists the votes counted for every state in 2000. Everyone agrees, record turn out this election...yet none of the state totals I've looked at seem to reflect the higher turn out. So....what has everyone been waiting in line for?

We're at 89% of precincts nation wide counted so far. And we're at a popular vote tally of 104.4 million, according to CNN. So, in 11% of precincts, we're going to count another 16 million votes (for an estimated 120 million voters total)? So...if there are 16 million votes left to be counted....where are they coming from? The west coast...and...Florida and Ohio? Maybe Iowa and N.M. too?

For a quick number, last time we had 594 thousand voters in N.M. This year, we have 525 thousand counted, and 96% reporting. WHAT THE HELL?


Edit: 538 thousand in N.M. now with 98%. 107 million nation wide with 92%. That leaves 13 million in 8% of precincts. *boggle*
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Strabo Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. ok, N.M. changes....
N.M. is now at 642 thousand votes total....and now 94% reporting.

Does anyone else see a problem there? We added 117 thousand votes, and apparently two percent of precincts recanted their votes?
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nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
49. Florida shows 7.2 million votes counted vs. 6.1 million ballots in 2000
Please be careful with statements. Reporting such claims to the media will backfire in the media. They'll brand all of us as conspiracy theorists, and ignore the fraud.

Remember the absentee ballot fiasco in Broward? That probably figures into possible fraud.

But, Ohio is the biggest question this morning. We can't even find out from the Ohio SS Blackwell how many "provisional" ballots were cast. Some say 200,000+.

There are a lot of legal issues on the site linked below. Read that article and then navigate to their home page.

http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/analysis/110304c.htm
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. kick
kick Bush.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
12. hah, it looks certain
But the quacking duck is saying "confusion" "irreguularities" "woes". After the "horserace" it is a challenge "fight".

You get them to say the word fraud and I'll mail you a million votes.

In order to tool up to this final drama and PV position it had to be massive. Fraud? Not in the media dicitionary unless Ashcroft is busting senior citizens.

The GD exit polls were ALREADY geared to allow for the 2000 "strangeness". It had to be massive, but in select places, much worse than others.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
13. This has to be exposed and dealt with now while Dems still even have the
power we have now.
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GingerSnaps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:22 AM
Response to Original message
14. How about the Senators & Congressmen
Are they the same states that republicans won the new seats in? I don't think that anyone should concede right now.
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
15. please email this to the DNC
If there is a statistical probability they need to grab the diebold
system to analyze if for fraud.

They have a problem in that someone could execute some code,
remote access the machine and error the thing putting in the bias..

but I do believe they have a series of computer engineers who can look at this.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Yup. That's the facts.
It's what we've expected in our cynical/realistic views. At least I did. :shrug:

Democracy died in the U.S. on December 12, 2000. :(
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GettysbergII Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
18. Crisis Papers posted this proof to verify E-Voting Fraud
http://www.crisispapers.org/essays/e-voting.htm

Thus, if Kerry loses in a close election in particular, if crucial states with e-voting machines give the election to Bush is it at all possible to determine if the fix was in?

Perhaps it can be done through a comparison of separate tallies, first the votes on auditable voting machines, and next of the reported votes on the paperless, secretly coded touch-screen machines.

If the result is a validated landslide for Kerry in the auditable machines, and victory for Bush from an offsetting and unverifiable landslide in the GOP manufactured and coded e-vote machines, then our worst fears will be confirmed: We the People of the United States have been had and, unless this crime is remedied, our democracy will be finished.

Fortunately, election returns are open, public documents. All that is required to assemble the separate totals on the paperless e-voting machines (about a third of the votes), and on all the other voting devices, is time and labor. If the result of that study indicates e-vote theft, more refined and compelling statistical analysis might follow, as I will explain below.


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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. where is Bev Harris? (eom)
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #19
50. There's been a campaign to discredit Bev...
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shelley806 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. Diebold Voting Machines; Rove's answer this time; see article 2003
Published on Thursday, August 28, 2003 by the Cleveland Plain Dealer

Voting Machine Controversy

by Julie Carr Smyth


COLUMBUS - The head of a company vying to sell voting machines in Ohio told Republicans in a recent fund-raising letter that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
The Aug. 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, chief executive of Diebold Inc. - who has become active in the re-election effort of President Bush - prompted Democrats this week to question the propriety of allowing O'Dell's company to calculate votes in the 2004 presidential election.
O'Dell attended a strategy pow-wow with wealthy Bush benefactors - known as Rangers and Pioneers - at the president's Crawford, Texas, ranch earlier this month. The next week, he penned invitations to a $1,000-a-plate fund-raiser to benefit the Ohio Republican Party's federal campaign fund - partially benefiting Bush - at his mansion in the Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington.
The letter went out the day before Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, also a Republican, was set to qualify Diebold as one of three firms eligible to sell upgraded electronic voting machines to Ohio counties in time for the 2004 election.
Blackwell's announcement is still in limbo because of a court challenge over the fairness of the selection process by a disqualified bidder, Sequoia Voting Systems.
In his invitation letter, O'Dell asked guests to consider donating or raising up to $10,000 each for the federal account that the state GOP will use to help Bush and other federal candidates - money that legislative Democratic leaders charged could come back to benefit Blackwell.
They urged Blackwell to remove Diebold from the field of voting-machine companies eligible to sell to Ohio counties.
This is the second such request in as many months. State Sen. Jeff Jacobson, a Dayton-area Republican, asked Blackwell in July to disqualify Diebold after security concerns arose over its equipment.
"Ordinary Ohioans may infer that Blackwell's office is looking past Diebold's security issues because its CEO is seeking $10,000 donations for Blackwell's party - donations that could be made with statewide elected officials right there in the same room," said Senate Democratic Leader Greg DiDonato.
Diebold spokeswoman Michelle Griggy said O'Dell - who was unavailable to comment personally - has held fund-raisers in his home for many causes, including the Columbus Zoo, Op era Columbus, Catholic Social Services and Ohio State University.
Ohio GOP spokesman Jason Mauk said the party approached O'Dell about hosting the event at his home, the historic Cotswold Manor, and not the other way around. Mauk said that under federal campaign finance rules, the party cannot use any money from its federal account for state- level candidates.
"To think that Diebold is somehow tainted because they have a couple folks on their board who support the president is just unfair," Mauk said.
Griggy said in an e-mail statement that Diebold could not comment on the political contributions of individual company employees.
Blackwell said Diebold is not the only company with political connections - noting that lobbyists for voting-machine makers read like a who's who of Columbus' powerful and politically connected.
"Let me put it to you this way: If there was one person uniquely involved in the political process, that might be troubling," he said. "But there's no one that hasn't used every legitimate avenue and bit of leverage that they could legally use to get their product looked at. Believe me, if there is a political lever to be pulled, all of them have pulled it."
Blackwell said he stands by the process used for selecting voting machine vendors as fair, thorough and impartial.
As of yesterday, however, that determination lay with Ohio Court of Claims Judge Fred Shoemaker.
He heard closing arguments yesterday over whether Sequoia was unfairly eliminated by Blackwell midway through the final phase of negotiations.
Shoemaker extended a temporary restraining order in the case for 14 days, but said he hopes to issue his opinion sooner than that.
2003 The Plain Dealer



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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
21. What we should do now ....

Compile my results into a succinct form. Every state with it's exit poll data vs. actual results summarized. Compare that against EVoting machine states with audits vs. without. This is best done in a table/column summary.

Get it out to every news outlet. Write all the media outlets and demand they do an investigation to find the source of the discrepancy between exit polls and voting results.

It is interesting to note that in Ohio, the Republicans blocked exit polling. The Bush administration also commented today on exit polls being unreliable (I heard it on the radio).

We need to summarize a strong case with as much factual evidence behind it as possible, preferably from mutiple sources. Then we media blitz to get this into the front page news.

If we don't act decisively the Republicans will steal another election.
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Strabo Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Compare and Contrast with 2000 data too!!
and check out my posts up above...wondering if there's something fishy going on in N.M. too.
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pinballer Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
61. grasp the reality.......
"If we don't act decisively the Republicans will steal another election."___SoCalDemocrat"

You need to accept the reality of it.

They've already stolen it. It's over.

All our complaints and pointing out of inconsistencies will be easily defrayed and dismissed in the court where this will be decided ; the court of Public Opinion.

The Rightwing spin machine will simply begin the chant ; "Oh, nothing was done wrong in the election, the liberals are just sore losers!"

And the majority of the masses who make up the court of Public Opinion ---all of the Republicans and many of the undecided-- will take up the chant.

Easily. Readily. Even eagerly.

It's easier than admitting the truth; that we completely subjugated to a faction so dishonest and so power hungry that they will stop at nothing to gain control of the planet and its resources.



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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 03:50 AM
Response to Original message
22. So, I went from anger to crying to acceptance back to ANGER.
This is just unfuckingbelievable.

Out of one side of their mouths, the GOP is bragging about the Hispanics pulling heavy for Bush, information they could only garner from exit polls.

Out of the other side of their mouths, they're changing exit poll data after the fact and running away from the earlier, widely-reported data.

Something is going the fuck on here. :grr:
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Every voter has to be recorded by the poll worker
does that total match the votes cast? This is another way to check.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
26. Query the 2002 Voter News Service exit poll data at THIS URL
Does the pattern SoCalDemocrat found hold in the 2002 data also, from the first time electronic voting was widespread?

DU researchers can query the 2002 Voter News Service data at http://webapp.icpsr.umich.edu/cocoon/ICPSR-DAS/03809.xml :

"Data Analysis System--Study No. 3809

TITLE: Voter News Service General Election Exit Poll, 2002
PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR(S): Voter News Service
AFFILIATION: Voter News Service

Online Analysis Using SDA

The online analysis system allows you to run both simple and complex analyses, recode and compute new variables, and subset variables or cases for downloading. The software powering the system, named Survey Documentation and Analysis (SDA), was developed by the Computer-assisted Survey Methods Program (CSM) at the University of California, Berkeley.

Click on the link(s) below to begin using SDA."
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. lets run it
Edited on Wed Nov-03-04 04:11 AM by SoCalDemocrat
Compare the voting systems.

For states with EVoting and no audit trials, what were the results vs exit polls?

Compare against states with audit trails. Unfortunately there may be very few with audit trails in place, so we may not have data for that particular comparison. I believe I read that at least one state had them in 2002.

What we can show is a discrepancy between exit polling vs. actual results and contrast against the different types of voting systems used. If the exit polls are by precinct we can further pinpoint the problem.

If my hypothesis bears out, it will be glaringly obvious given exit poll results at a precinct level.

Bar far the most pertinet is the 2004 data. 2002 is water under the bridge for the media, but could be useful.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. The 2002 data could provide another test of your hypothesis, one that
many statisticians might find more convincing. But we'd need to know what percent of voters in each state used e-voting with and without a paper trail in 2002 as well as in 2004.

Compare the (exit poll - actual results) discrepancy across time for every state and DC. Were discrepancies systematically bigger in 2004 in states that adopted e-voting with no paper trail between 2002 and 2004? That question uses each state's own past history of exit poll bias as a basis for comparison with the 2004 discrepancy.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Is it possible to identify the actual sample precincts?
Specific sample precincts are used in exit polling, I would be curious to see how the totals for those actual precincts compared to the exit polls that were taken specifically of them. If the totals differed significantly even in the actual sample precincts, that would establish that the "problem" was not unrepresentative sample precincts being used to project totals for States. Also curious whether in states like Florida that have mixed voting methods, if evoting precincts diverged from the exit polls more than non evoting precincts.
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Steelangel Donating Member (731 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:09 AM
Response to Original message
28. Good and all but...
will that change anything? Repukes already are preparing to have mandate for Bush soon.
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:21 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. If we prove the fraud

As a nation we must call upon Bush to step down and acknowledge Kerry as the next President of the United States. It is the correct moral and lawful action to take.

If we expose their fraud, and the refuse to step down, then we're looking at two countries, blue vs. red. I won't allow my country to be stolen without a fight. I'm sure it won't descend into a civil war, but there would be significant unrest if Bush tried to hold onto power illegitimately.
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cerulean_ink Donating Member (41 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
31. This link might help...
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
64. Thanks--this site is ESSENTIAL for researching e-voting effects
One thing that becomes clear very quickly upon viewing your webpage is that there are DEGREES of e-voting use in a state. It's not mainly 0 e-voting versus 100 percent e-voting we're comparing. It's evidently zero for states not listed on that webpage. It is 100 percent for Delaware, Georgia, and a few other states. But for most states that have it, it's somewhere between 0 and 100 percent. For example, Alabama is 3 / 67 = 4.5 percent. The question arises, is Alabama more like Georgeia in e-voting, or more like states with NO e-voting?

A quick measure of e-voting use would be PERCENT OF COUNTIES USING E-VOTING WITH NO VOTER-VERIFIABLE PAPER TRAIL. The 50 states and DC could be divided into three groups of approximately equal size based on that percentage. One group would be ZERO, and the top group, including Delaware, Georgia, etc, would be MORE THAN ?? PERCENT. The middle group would include Alabama and other states with low e-voting use, but not zero.

If several different DU researchers are going to work on this project, it would be good to agree on the groups of states to be compared.
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Zuni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
33. just kicking the thread---this is a must read
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. kick again -- this is very important
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. I have the exit polls from Slate
that was obtained from the media before the election. I don't know how to screen capture so I emailed the page to myself. Here is the data from the page.

press box
Updated Late Afternoon Numbers
Mucho flattering to Kerry; plus Nader makes an appearance.
By Jack Shafer
Updated Tuesday, Nov. 2, 2004, at 4:28 PM PT


Florida
Kerry 51
Bush 49

Ohio
Kerry 51
Bush 49

Michigan
Kerry 52
Bush 46
Nader 1

!
Pennsylvania
Kerry 53
Bush 46

Iowa
Kerry 50
Bush 49

Wisconsin
Kerry 51
Bush 48
Nader 1

Minnesota
Kerry 52
Bush 46
Nader 2

New Hampshire
Kerry 54
Bush 44
Nader 1

New Mexico
Kerry 50
Bush 48
Nader 1

Colorado
Kerry 49
Bush 50
Nader 1

Arkansas
Kerry 45
Bush 54
Nader 1

Missouri
Kerry 47
Bush 52

New York
Kerry 62
Bush 36
Nader 2

Nevada
Kerry 49
Bush 48
Nader 1

New Jersey
Kerry 54
Bush 44
Nader 1

West Virginia
Kerry 45
Bush ! 54
Nader 1

Why is Slate runn ing these numbers? See this morning's piece. ... 4:20 p.m. PT

Late Afternoon Exit Polls: It's a tight squeeze: In the national exit poll, Kerry leads Bush 51-48. In Wisconsin he's up by three, and in Ohio and Florida he leads by one.

Why is Slate running these numbers? See this morning's piece. ... 3:16 p.m. PT

Early Exit: A sqeaker: The first wave of exit-poll data reaching my desk comes from a variety of sources. In some states the sources disagree about the specific margin by which a candidate leads, but never about which candidate is out in front. Some of the confusion may stem from the mixing of morning dexit-poll numbers with early afternoon numbers. With those provisos and the understanding that the early numbers are predictive of nothing without their accompany! ing computer model, here's what I've heard:

Florida
Kerry 50
Bush 49

Ohio
Kerry 50
Bush 49

Pennsylvania
Kerry 54
Bush 45

Wisconsin
Kerry 51
Bush 46

Michigan
Kerry 51
Bush 47

Minnesota
Kerry 58
Bush 40

Nevada
Kerry 48
Bush 50

New Mexico
Kerry 50
Bush 48

North Carolina
Kerry 49
Bush 51

Colorado
Kerry 46
Bush 53

Other exit-poll results have arrived in more vague form, with Kerry leading Bush in New Hampshire but trailing him in Arizona and Louisiana.

For an explanation of why Slate is posting exit-poll numbers, see the previous post, below. ... 12:15 p.m. PT

! Exit Poll Charade: Why Slate is posting the exit-poll numbers: As this item posts, the first raw exit-poll data are streaming from the National Election Pool consortium owned by the Associated Press and the five television networks (CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox, and CNN) to their news divisions and to the newsrooms of NEP subscribersbig city newspapers and other broadcasters.

These early exit-poll numbers do not divine the name of the winner. Instead, regard these numbers as a sportswriter does the line scores from the fourth inning of a baseball game. The leading team might win the game, but then again it might not. But having the early data in front of him helps the sportswriter plot the story he thinks he'll need to write at game's end.

As you read this posting, the political reporters at the networks, the New York Times, the W! ashington Post, the Los Angeles Times, NPR, Newsweek, and about two dozen other news outlets are cracking their knuckles over their keyboards, contemplating the story, while statisticians and political analysts at the networks prepare to run the numbers through their computer models to generate a prediction.

The paid users of exit-poll data have signed a blood oath not to divulge it to unauthorized eyes, and the networks have promised not to call any states before their polls close. But the numbers always leak out to other journalistssuch as the writers at Slateand starting at about 5 p.m. ET or so, the news anchors start giving clues about what they've learned from the exit-poll results. As John Tierney writes in today's New York Times, the result on television is sometimes like a "version of the Dance of the ! Seven Veils, in which anchors or correspondents will pretend not to kn ow what's happening in a state but give enough clues for the discerning viewer. They might allude to the high spirits at one campaign headquarters, or start speculating about what effect the loss of this state would have on the other candidate."

In the 2003 gubernatorial election in California, the networks kept their solemn oath not to call the winner until polls closed at 11 p.m. ET. Just the same, CBS News' Dan Rather telegraphed his findings in this 6:30 p.m. ET broadcast.

With voting still under way in the California governor recall election, CBS News exit polls, for whatever, if anything, they may be worth, now indicate many voters made up their minds weeks ago. If is recalled, there are widespread expectationsagain, for whatever they may be worththat Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger would replace Davis.

On CNBC, John Seigenthaler maintained a straight face in the 7 p.m. ET time slot as he divulged! these exit-poll results: "Nearly three-quarters of California voters, 73 percent, say they disapprove of job performance." Need he have drawn a picture? Meanwhile, MSNBC and Fox indulged in similar mugging. Watch the airwaves for such giveaways this evening.

Slate believes its readers should know as much about the unfolding election as the anchors and other journalists, so given the proviso that the early numbers are no more conclusive than the midpoint score of a baseball game, we're publishing the exit-poll numbers as we receive them. Some people say it's irresponsible to publish the numbersor broadcast early projections of winnersbecause it may disturb voter turnout. As Slate Editor Jacob Weisberg put it in today's Times, he doesn't want to put the Web site "in the paternalistic position of deciding that our readers ! aren't mature enough to react in the proper way to truthful informatio n we possess."

Watch this space. 11:50 a.m. PT

Jack Shafer is Slate's editor at large.

Article URL: http://slate.msn.com/id/2109053/
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
38. Yep,I posted before 10:00 PM CST last night about Ohio
Funny fucking thing,they exit poll almost 2,000 people and Kerry leads 52/48. When the results start coming in its an exact flip with Bush winning. What Bullshit....

David
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:29 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Here is some more info
CNN TV Contradicts Official Ohio Site
CNN TV, which I have paused on TiVo at this moment, is directly contradicting whats on the Ohio Secretary of State site.

CNN TV:

56% Kerry
44% Bush
with 66,394 votes in
Ohio Site:

55% Bush
45% Kerry

<http://www.command-post.org/2004/2_archives/cat_ohio.html>

You have to scroll down to get it.
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
39. ALL the BLOGS need to Trumpet the Exit poll/actual count in EarlG's post
We must get all the blogs, from Atrios to Kos to Buzzflash to Takebackthemedia, etc.. ALL ON THE SAME PAGE with the Exit poll/actual count scenario that is in EarlG's post as supposed by SoCalDemocrat --

We must MARCH IN LOCKSTEP and SHAME or FORCE the Media to deal with this.. even if we have insider links to the folks in charge and they get to see it, it must STILL be on every page and every blog so that there is NO DOUBT in the American public's mind that THIS IS VALID..

You've seen what they can do. We've forced CNN to put 750 words back into a Hans Blix report in the SAME AFTERNOON at our site. We've cost Limbaugh many high profile advertisers.

We MUST work together on this. Once this information is in a form that we can all digest and understand we must ALL make it the top priority on our sites, reach out to other blogs and pass this story to them, make it the TOP STORY all over the web.

THIS Is how we can beat them, we take it to the people.. in the end WE ARE THE MEDIA.

DO IT. Our futures may depend on us pounding this information into everyone's heads like a drum, and making it part of the public perception.

THe best part is, THIS IS NOT SPIN.

WHO here can contact Bartcop, Atrios, Kos, Air America Radio (website), etc, etc..?

We'll place it front and center on Takebackthemedia.com and NOT BUDGE until we get ANSWERS.

Let's get these THIEVES out of OUR WHITE HOUSE. Start thinking of Boycotts as well. Maybe if everyone who voted for Kerry decided to NOT purchase GAS FOR A WEEK?

Ideas?


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Paxdora Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #39
52. CNN should be sued
for messing around with their exit polls! DU has the captured screen shots as proof of elections-tampering! The FCC will do NOTHING to revoke their license, so there has to be some big-time litigation put together by citizen's groups and big Dem money.
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SoCalDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
40. BTW it's SoCalDemocrat

SoCalDem is a different poster.

bump
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symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Sorry
couldn't recognize without the always cool graphics :)
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panzerfaust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
43. Profoundly Depressing ...
...but, alas, not unexpected.

The question now is will "B3" be W for a third term, or will it be Brother-J?

The former I think.

I do not believe that many who voted for it will really enjoy being part of the neoconservative theocratic world-empire that is going to emerge on the ruins of our democracy. The price of empire is high, it will be paid by the poorest.

Seig Heil!
Sorry.
God Bless!!
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i_c_a_White_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
44. No Doubt either Fraud or Massive Fundie Turnout
when hearing shrub was trailing in the exit polls
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gasperc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
45. PA-exit polls 60/40 Kerry; 40% into count 57/43 kerry, end of night...
51%kerry , 49% Bush

How the fuck can the final count contract that much. I know about wait till where the votes come etc, but this contraction is very very very suspicious.

sour grapes is all they will keep saying but this shit stinks to high heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
46. Kick
:kick:
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. And mo kick!
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
48. But does it matter?
Who will investigate?

Who will insure that the true vote is counted?(if fraud is indeed evident)

Who will change the outcome of this election?

George Bush's Justice Department?

The Media?

Gangs of Democrats in the streets?

It seems to me that this country is done.

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Hephaistos Donating Member (137 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
51. WOW! Kos Diary: "Something is very wrong in Florida"
Check this out:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/52213/1921

by BuckMulligan
Wed Nov 3rd, 2004 at 09:22:13 GMT

2000
Bush 2,912,790
Gore 2,912,253
Nader 97,421
Other 40,193


2004
Bush 3,836,216
Kerry 3,459,293
Nader 32,035
Other 28,382

= 7,355,296 (2004) - 5,963,657 (2000) = 1,392,639 new voters (99% precincts counted, no provisionals or absentees).

So, we have 1.39 million new voters, and Kerry loses by 376,923 votes? Thus, he lost an overwhelming majoirty of them, or he lost an overwhelming majority of regular voters - much, much more than Gore lost.

We have 77,197 fewer third party votes, but Kerry loses the vast majority of these?

Exit polling numbers show that Kerry had more Hispanic and Cuban support than Gore did, and Kerry lost?
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Paxdora Donating Member (223 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. KICK!
Let's keep this alive and roiling! If we don't do it, no one will!


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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #51
84. Best #'s I've seen, and there is NO WAY IN HELL.
again, NO WAY IN HELL.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
54. WHY WERE WE BEING TOLD TO IGNORE THE EXIT POLLS!!!!
Again the exit polls were way off???? Bull-fucking-shit!
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LauraT28 Donating Member (182 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
56. blackboxvoting.org
Bev has filed 3000 Freedom of Information Act petitions for verification of all the black box voting.

# # # # #

Public Records Request - November 2, 2004
From: Black Box Voting
To: Elections division

Pursuant to public records law and the spirit of fair, trustworthy, transparent elections, we request the following documents.

We are requesting these as a nonprofit, noncommercial group acting in the capacity of a news and consumer interest organization, and ask that if possible, the fees be waived for this request. If this is not possible, please let us know which records will be provided and the cost. Please provide records in electronic form, by e-mail, if possible - [email protected]

We realize you are very, very busy with the elections canvass. To the extent possible, we do ask that you expedite this request, since we are conducting consumer audits and time is of the essence.


We request the following records.
Item 1. All notes, emails, memos, and other communications pertaining to any and all problems experienced with the voting system, ballots, voter registration, or any component of your elections process, beginning October 12, through November 3, 2004.

Item 2. Copies of the results slips from all polling places for the Nov. 2, 2004 election. If you have more than one copy, we would like the copy that is signed by your poll workers and/or election judges.

Item 3: The internal audit log for each of your Unity, GEMS, WinEds, Hart Intercivic or other central tabulating machine. Because different manufacturers call this program by different names, for purposes of clarification we mean the programs that tally the composite of votes from all locations.

Item 4: If you are in the special category of having Diebold equipment, or the VTS or GEMS tabulator, we request the following additional audit logs:

a. The transmission logs for all votes, whether sent by modem or uploaded directly. You will find these logs in the GEMS menu under Accuvote OS Server and/or Accuvote TS Server

b. The audit log referred to in Item 3 for Diebold is found in the GEMS menu and is called Audit Log

c. All Poster logs. These can be found in the GEMS menu under poster and also in the GEMS directory under Program Files, GEMS, Data, as a text file. Simply print this out and provide it.

d. Also in the Data file directory under Program Files, GEMS, Data, please provide any and all logs titled CCLog, PosterLog, and Pserver Log, and any logs found within the Download, Log, Poster or Results directories.

e. We are also requesting the Election Night Statement of Votes Cast, as of the time you stopped uploading polling place memory cards for Nov. 2, 2004 election.

Item 5: We are requesting every iteration of every interim results report, from the time the polls close until 5 p.m. November 3.

Item 6: If you are in the special category of counties who have modems attached, whether or not they were used and whether or not they were turned on, we are requesting the following:

a. internal logs showing transmission times from each voting machine used in a polling place

b. The Windows Event Viewer log. You will find this in administrative tools, Event Viewer, and within that, print a copy of each log beginning October 12, 2004 through Nov. 3, 2004.

Item 7: All e-mails, letters, notes, and other correspondence between any employee of your elections division and any other person, pertaining to your voting system, any anomalies or problems with any component of the voting system, any written communications with vendors for any component of your voting system, and any records pertaining to upgrades, improvements, performance enhancement or any other changes to your voting system, between Oct. 12, 2004 and Nov. 3, 2004.

Item 8: So that we may efficiently clarify any questions pertaining to your specific county, please provide letterhead for the most recent non-confidential correspondence between your office and your county counsel, or, in lieu of this, just e-mail us the contact information for your county counsel.

Because time is of the essence, if you cannot provide all items, please provide them in increments as soon as you have them, and please notify us by telephone (206-335-7747) or email ([email protected]) as soon as you have any portion of the above public records request available for review.

Thank you very much, and heres hoping for a smooth and simple canvass which works out perfectly for you. We very, very much appreciate your help with this, and we do realize how stressful this election has been.

If you need a local address, please let me know, and we will provide a local member for this public records request. In the interest of keeping your life simple, we thought it best to coordinate all records through one entity so that you dont get multiple local requests.

# # # # #
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ProgressivePatriotUS Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #56
82. KICK
i can hardly wait to see what the FOIA records come up with.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
57. Thanks for this--this is exactly what I thought when the "real" totals
were swinging the wrong way.

People look at exit polls as if they are just some kind of prediction. They aren't. The process is very much like counting a box full of bolts. You could count each bolt, or you could divide the bolts into ten equal piles by weight or volume, count the bolts in that pile, and multiply by ten.

The more bolts you have, the more accurate the estimate would be.

When I have more time, I'll run a chi-square analysis to see how unlikely it is that the exit polls should be as far off as they were in Ohio.

*****

The other thing to remember is that so far Kerry has "lost" in Ohio by only 136,000 votes. If 600,000 votes are still out, they could be crucial.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
58. SURPRISE, SURPRISE, SURPRISE!
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
59. Kerry needs to get right on this and make a statement.

Otherwise it will be the same in the next election and the next, and the next.

The election was FIXED by Diebold.
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kimchi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
60. As soon as someone has it in tablet form, I will mail it out.
THis just completely pisses me off. It ain't over.
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T Roosevelt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
62. Can DU organize a serious analysis of the results?
What seems to have happened yesterday has been my biggest concern about counting votes and electronic voting (and others have posted this same sentiment) - exactly how do we know whether or not the results correlate with what was expected?

I've seen a couple of threads and some discussion here looking at different precincts, exit polls, etc.

I would also imagine that some blogs (mydd, leftcoaster, others) will be looking at some things.

But here on DU we have access to tremendous analytical talent, resources, numbers, etc.

I envision an indepth analysis of nationwide results, at a precinct level, looking at registrations by party, votes by party, vote counts in each and every race and (and ballot initiative?), previous election results, etc, looking for discrepancies and inconsistencies in what we are seeing.

I for one cannot believe that Florida shifted from stolen from Gore to big for *. I also cannot believe that this nation went from majority Gore to big? majority *.

Something is fishy, and I for one would like to get to the bottom of it.

I'm thinking a more organized, academic approach - a very task-oriented study, consistent methodology, coordinated effort that takes into account more than what's being discussed in the thread. Something that cannot be disputed. I don't want the smoke - I want the gun.
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #62
69. Research can be decentralized if people have access to common data
and largely agree on definitions of what they are comparing.

For an initial analysis, I'd suggest a table with three columns and three rows based on exit poll data and actual results for ALL 50 states and the District of Columbia.

The columns would be:

(C1) 2004 average weighted discrepancy between exit polls and actual statewide results
(C2) 2002 discrepancy
(C3) 2000 discrepancy

Weighting should come from Census data on each state's population of citizens age 18 and over.

The rows would be the three groups of states described in post #64..

The 2002 exit poll data can be queried online as described in post #26

VNS exit-poll data for the 2000 election also are available online, but cannot be queried without downloading them. They are at http://webapp.icpsr.umich.edu/cocoon/ICPSR-STUDY/03527.xml

Interestingly, there are NO citations of 'Related Literature' available through that link. I don't know whether this is just a bibliographic problem or whether no reputable statistical studies of the 2000 exit poll fiasco have been published.

Does anyone here know?

From http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/cgi/CITATIONS/search.prl?&study=03527&method=study&path=ICPSR

"Voter News Service General Election Exit Polls, 2000 (ICPSR 03527)

Sorry, there are currently no citations in the Bibliography of Data-related Literature pertaining to Voter News Service General Election Exit Polls, 2000 (ICPSR <03527>). If you are aware of any publications related to this study, please let us know using our online Bibliography Citation Submission form."
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T Roosevelt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. I think the analysis should go deeper than exit polls
there are concerns over precincts that used touch screen with paper, versus without, versus optical scan, etc.

Also part of this are comparisons of vote percentages between auditable versus non-auditable precincts, looking for discrepancies in current numbers, exit polls, and 2000 numbers.
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
63. NO concession. NO surrender. NO fucking whining. We fight for
democracy. We count ALL the votes. We call all the media about this. We spread the word. We mobilize in OH, FL, DC. We DO NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT.
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bostonbabs Donating Member (465 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #63
66. Kerry is nowraising money for a recount!
www.johnkerry.com.....I just gave and I will not stop wearing by Kerry pin.I will call and write more that I have ever in my life.I cannot believe that this has happened in america.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
67. This is something worth investigating
It is my view as a computer programmer that eVoting is simply too susceptible to the crudest forms of election fraud. The easiest thing in the world is to program a machine so that, when a user enters one thing, it records another.

If electronic machines are to be used, then the end result should be to print out a paper ballot which is the ballot actually cast and counted. No figures should be kept in the machine.
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Soft Wars
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
70. Is there similar discrepancy tween reported votes and pre-election polls?
Is there a similar discrepancy between the reported votes and pre-election polls, on a state by state basis that shows up as anomolies for Ohio and Florida?
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AirAmFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
72. Investors Business Daily article today on paper trails
Today's Investors Business Daily quotes Cindy Cohn, legal director of the Electronic Frontier fFoundation, on thier possble litigation effort against e-voting with no voter-verifiable paper trail. So the EFF website (is it http://www.eff.org ?) should have useful data and references.

IBD also quotes David Bear, a Diebold spokesman, and Kim Alexander, president of the California Voter Foundation:

From http://www.investors.com/editorial/tech.asp?v=11/3 :

"Down the road, should election regulators decide that they want individual paper voter receipts, it 'would not be a technological hurdle to modify existing systems,' Bear said....

States have begun to add paper trail requirements for future electronic voting. "In one polling place in San Bernardino County, the elections office is using a Sequoia (Voting Systems) touch-screen machine with a voter-verified paper trail," said Kim Alexander, president of the California Voter Foundation. "It's called VeriVote and is also being used in Nevada. This system works the way we hope all the systems will eventually work." It provides a paper printout of each vote that voters OK before casting their ballot. The receipt stays at the polls, available in case a hand recount is necessary.
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ciaobox Donating Member (796 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
73. Kick
Now without the Dem party behind this, WE need to strongly organize a media campaign making these results known.
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ltfranklin Donating Member (852 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
74. Voting Machines should be secured NOW!
Am I wrong, or should some agency be ensuring that ALL non-paper-trail voting machines in Ohio and Florida (at the very least) are secured! If the software in the machine has possibly been hacked, the ONLY evidence will the the machines, and if they are not secured, there will be no way to tell if the software in the machines has been reloaded since the election. At some future time, it may be necessary to:
a) Download a copy of the software ON each machine for examination.
b) Compare the software on all machines to see if all machines were running the same version.
c) examine the code for any modifications that might effect the totals

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aden_nak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
75. Bumptastic.
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donhakman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Exactly what you can do



If you don't believe me ask Cheney what you can do.
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
77. Well no shit
Is there anyone who DOESN'T believe fraud was committed? But WTF can we do about it? Our greatest fears were realized, and we're screwed.

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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. If we can get solid evidence....
...and Wyoming alone looks like that...

We can get Bush and Cheney to resign.

Or disqualify electors in every state we have evidence of tampering in. (Like we tried to do in Florida and every chickenshit Senator sold us out.)

Get Maxine Waters and Obama on the phone now. We have to disqualify the electors from Wyoming and Ohio.
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Chili Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
80. just now finding this thread (doh!)
...I'm with you - I want to know what happened to the voter count, and why there's such a large discrepancy between that announced 120 million voter count, and the 113 presidential tallied vote count.

If we can raise enough doubts to get even a journalistic investigation, it could make all the difference - what would it do? Nothing, Bush will never resign, we'll never get a congressional investigation - but it could get media attention. And that might count for something down the road. Right now, I'm so frustrated and angry that just doing THIS is better than doing nothing.
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frankly_fedup2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
81. I thought it was pretty amazing in the election of 2000 when the exit . .
polls did not match anything in Florida. The company that had been doing it for years and had always matched the voting was fired in 2000.

Now the exit polls do not match where they voted with the computers?

The Republicans say they voted for Bush because he will:

1. Keep the country safe (some believe as long as he is the president that we will not be attacked again. So if we are attacked again, does that mean the Republicans are wrong?

2. Will totally end abortion of any kind, which he did not in the first four years of his brazenly stolen presidency so why will he do anything now.

3. Will not leave any child behind even though he underfunded his promise and there are many children already left behind.

4. We will never hear from him except once a year at the State of the Union Addresses because his puppet masters Rove/Cheney really run this country. I can just see them cringe when Bush says, "I'll take a few questions."

5. They put a man in office who during his first term was on
vacation over 45% of the time. But that is OK with them I suppose.

6. He will continue to totally ignore the middle east and believe the Christian Coalition's telling him that "God has chosen him to rule at this time." Four more years of a man running this country according to the way "he" interprets the Bible.

I'm just totally amazed that this man was "elected." However, I still do not consider him a legitimate president because I do not know if his rich friends at Diebold made sure he would win this election.

Also, the Republicans are so into character assassination.

Now we have a President who is not accountable for any of his actions because we still lost the House as well as the Senate.

Four more years of war and more war because we are going to go into Iran next. Four more years of spending and making the military industry richer, four more years of spending to the point of absolutely no chance of any SS Retirement that we have paid into all of our lives. Worst of all, I don't want to hear one Republican cry when their little Ivy League son is being drafted to go fight a war that they say is against terrorism, but they know as well as we do, that it is a war to make his base richer.

I wonder how long they will hold out before the draft comes about.

One final thought . . . if there is a positive here, it will be that Hillary Clinton can run in 2008 and become the first female President in the U.S. We will have another Clinton in the White House. I bet that will scare the bejesus out of them.

God help the U.S.A.
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #81
83. Kick
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