Stop it, Stop it, Stop it! Stop the bashing!

[davsand]

Gack! We are talking about a party primary here!

I know we all are supporting out choices and we feel they are good ones, but it breaks my heart to read this forum and see the kind of mud slinging and name calling that is going on. This hurts us all and it makes the GOP even stronger when we alienate each other like this.

Read the list of posts--Clark did this--Dean did that--Sharpton is this--(Insert candidate here) can't win. It is gut wrenching to see people who share an interest in making this country better tearing up on each other with such ferocity.

I am a Dem. I will support whoever comes out of this process and I will do it because I think bush is an asshole who needs to go back to Texas or whatever den he crawled out of. The ONLY way we can send him away is if we pull up our socks and work together after this primary is over. Bashing each other now is only gonna make that more difficult later.

Sorry, this is a rant--and I expect it to drop off the radar shortly--but for those of you who DO read it, please--stop and think about how you are gonna feel the day after the elections if we are facing four more years of Whistle Ass.

Can we PLEASE take better care of each other and examine the issues that define our candidates? Can we please Stop the Bashing?

Please?

Laura

[Lindsey]

1. I agree 100%

What are we doing? We just need to get the maniac out of the White House. I have the candidate I'm supporting but I will support whomever receives the nomination. ANYONE BUT BUSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sagan]

2. Amen

Right now, the Primary forum here seems to be acting as a research arm of the RNC. If they need some good one-liners bashing our candidates, they have ready-made material right here.

How brilliant of us.

[AP]

3. It's important to know who these candidates are.

I agree that the attempts to spread rumors and the unsubstantiated spin are unseemly.

But if you see criticisms that cite facts, pay close attention. It's vitally important.

[davsand]

6. Comparison is not the same as criticism.

"Your tie is blue and I think a red one would look nice on you with that suit," is an acceptable to say to your buddy. "Your tie is blue and I hate blue--it makes me retch" is NOT acceptable to say to your buddy. I agree fully that comparison of candidates is vital to deciding about your nominees, but it is how you say it that matters.

If you like your buddy, you are gonna work to tell him what you think in a way that isn't gonna make him feel demeaned or somehow lessened. I think that primaries need to be conducted with the same attitude.

Do you see what I mean here?

Laura

[sandnsea]

10. If the tie is retched, I say so

My buddy's know that about me and like it.

[davsand]

11. Yeah, me too.

I'm kinda seen that way too--but I was trying to illustrate my point. :)

Maybe it is like telling them they have toilet paper dragging off their shoe or something in their teeth? You have to do it--but you can do it with kindness or at least some compassion.

Peace to you.

Laura

[bearfartinthewoods]

4. if you can define "bashing" i will consider it.

people use the term fairly loosely here...

[davsand]

9. That is a good point.

It isn't bashing to point out that candidates differ--that is part of the process. I do think it is the lack of consideration that I see for how comparison is delivered that makes me so upset.

I've had times where I posted something and I looked at it one last time before I hit enter and realized that I might have made someone feel that THEY were being attacked when my point was a difference in the candidates.

I think that we DO have folks on every side of this election who hit post without even thinking how they'd feel if somebody responded to THEM in the same way. I want my guy to win, and so do the other 37,000 DU members on here. We also want to see shrub go away. If we can't get past this primary, it won't happen.

Pax to you. We are in the same camp.

Laura

[kerry-is-my-prez]

5. I suggested that they add a "free-for-all" forum....

and make this one issues only. It would keep this forum a little bit more genteel....

[xultar]

7. You'll get lump for your troubles. There's no way that

some of these people will admit anything is wrong with their candiate. They want me to admit that Clark shouldn't be president because he supports the School of the Americas. They think that Clark was teaching Murder and Torture and he is directly responsible for all of the graduates and their crimes after they left.

But they won't admit that Dean neglected to request a special investigation into the shooting of a man (shot 4 times while he was down on the floor) to cover for a friend whom he appointed to the Atty General of VT.

Then there is one Clark supporter was a real jerk and got tombstoned. We all admit he was a jerk. Everyone uses that one person to paint all Clark supporters with the same brush.

Meanwhile there are jerk other candidate supporters doing the same thing and they don't see a problem with it.

Everyone has dirt in their closets. We've just got to decide how much and what kind of dirt we can live with.

I've tried to be fair, I've tried to be nice. It appears that almost no one will respond in kind.
So, why try.

[progressivebydesign]

17. Okay.. good point.. but..

School of the Americas? I didn't know that about Clark. Yikes.

[RetroLounge]

8. Think grammar school recess.

that's what this forum has become.

You're a poopie head.

no, you are.

That's what you are but what am I?


This is what passes for discourse. Can't change it, so ignore the crap and the posters, and vote for whomever.

In a few months, we'll all be ABB. Once there's a candidate, and the only enemy is bush*, the one's who can't stop bashing the Dem candidate will just get banned.

and I'll laugh because I'm pretty sure I know who they will be.

[RUexperienced]

12. "pull up our socks and work together"

And put our shoulder to the grindstone!

[davsand]

13. It is never easy after a primary.

There comes a point after it is over when you will either pick up the phone or stand outside that other guy's HQ and have to make the decision to support him or abandon your party line. That point is made much easier to stomach if he wasn't an asshole in that Primary. If you just spent a year doing battle with him and all his supporters it can be a difficult choice. I speak from experience.

We can help each other make that call by behaving with some sanity now.

Pax.

Laura

[RUexperienced]

15. I agree. I was only giving you a hard time on your choice of words

I never heard the "pull up our socks and work together" phrase.

No offense. My wife always mixes her metaphors, so I am very sensitive when I see a phrase like that.

[TreasonousBastard]

14. Why?

If some people get their shorts knotted, so what? Is it not possible to ignore them? This is politics, and it gets ugly. Smears, lies, mud, dirty tricks... It's gonna happen, even if the campaign itself doesn't really want it.

Consider it practice for the general election.

There are people here who take things far too seriously. I suspect many of them either have their own personality problems, or they never went through a bitter campaign before. There is no such thing as a clean campaign in American politics, and everyone had better get used to that. I watched my guy for city council have the election literally stolen out from under him after he worked his ass off. I'm not the only one here to say that-- there's only one winner, and it's not always going to be yours.

There is absolutely nothing said here that the opposition hasn't already thought of. We are not giving them ammunition-- they have well funded operatives minutely going over all of the candidates lives, and will do more of it as a winner emerges.

Expect a Bush campaign of smears and lies that just might put past campaigns to shame. Nixon's Plumbers haven't disappeared, they have just gotten smarter and sneakier.

Bringing this stuff up here, however, does give everyone a chance to come up with decent rebuttals so we stand less of a chance of being sandbagged.

[cally]

16. I agree 100 percent

I don't mind the new information, new articles, etc. But how many times do we need to see a post that Dean is unelectable or flip flops. Kerry voted for IWR and Clark supports the SOA and voted for Reagan. Any DUer who hasn't read those statements at least 100 times hasn't been paying attention or has a very long ignore list. :think:

Thanks for the rant.

[5thGenDemocrat]

18. Hi Davsand -- it is now three weeks since I bashed anyone

And you sound like someone who needs FUNDAY (now improved with the return of THE BUS) now more than ever.
Polly, Annie and Andy the Right Wing Republican all send their regards.
John
It is now 157 days, 20 hours and 36 minutes until FUNDAY X.

[davsand]

19. Boy howdy am I ready!

Things are fun here at home, and now even DU has become insanity infested. Makes me wonder if I can move to Saginaw and just be your house boy... Imagine--giving up politics and the rest of it all and doing nothing more than bringing a nice guy cocktails on command!!! Wow!

I know you have survived more than one primary in your life, so I expected to find you in the correct mindset for this. It ain't the trenches--ya know?

I miss you all, and I'll see you at Funday!

Laura

[MoonRiver]

20. I agree, but it seems hopeless to try and stop this bashing.

There appears to be near hysteria among Dem activists. I suppose one explanation is that we all know how much is at stake. Because of this we're intensely (over) focused on the candidate each of US think can best beat the *.