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October Surprise: Would Bush Make Another Visit to Baghdad?

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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:01 PM
Original message
October Surprise: Would Bush Make Another Visit to Baghdad?


I was over on Atrios, and I saw this thread about possible "October Surprises" from the Bush Campaign. He proposed three possibilities, but obviously the most interesting (and most plausible) is his option #2: Flightsuit boy makes another "surprise" trip to the troops in Iraq and/or Afghanistan.

Kudos to Atrios. This is brilliant. I think he might be right.

Bush and Rove know from their internal polling that they could very well lose the election. They need to make a splash during the final days of the campaign in order to put the campaign over the top. But they've got a few problems...

We haven't found OBL, so they can't bust him out for the cameras. The code red terror alert system has been used so often that the media and even the public has grown bored with it. And there's nothing but bad news, at home and abroad.

So, their only option is to MAKE SOME NEWS, and to do something that ONLY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES COULD DO. Something that showcases Bush's strengths, and takes full advantage of the power of the presidency.

This is a stunt that John Kerry simply cannot copy. Bush and Rove load the media onto Air Force One. They tell them after they're already over the Atlantic Ocean that they're on the way to a mystery destination. They land in Baghdad or Kabul (preferably Baghdad if the Secret Service will allow it).

Presto: Amazing photo-op with enthusiastic troops (hand-picked for their loyalty to the prez) who tell Bush how proud they are to be fighting the good fight in Iraq, tell the media how lucky we are to have a president like Bush, and tell the American people that everything in Baghdad is just great.

You see... Everything Kerry says about Iraq is wrong. See all the happy pictures? See all the smiling troops?

It would dominate the news for two days, maybe three. The press wouldn't be able to stop talking about it. Kerry would be stuck in a virtual media blackout during the final days of the campaign.

Rove would do this If he thought he could get away with it. I have no doubt.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think they could bring OBL out the day before the election
It's not too late for him to make an appearance.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. You really think that this kind of obvious stunt is going to...

...make me forget about the 3000 burning people I smelled in New York City? You think I'm going to forget the naked political opportunism I've seen every step of the way from these religious weirdos? Make no mistake; I'm not alone in my seething contempt for them.

Let him have such a photo opp with the troops; I'll get to the polls even earlier on November 2 to vote this dumbass out of office.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No, not you.
But there are plenty of undecided voters out there. And this stunt would remind them why they liked Bush in the first place.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. But contrast them to the fundies who just won't be able to vote
for the Bush/LESBIAN ticket.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Right; his daughter's a LESBIAN - there must be something wrong with him..
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. In their eyes, there is.
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
31. I know - I was being sarcastic ;)
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
42. Right... it isn't that these voters are trying to decide....
they are looking for a reason to vote for gw* and feel good about it.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
57. There are no undecided voters out there.
It is all bull hockey. It is just an act. The undecideds that the press tried to shove down our throat were all paid actors. I say to the lying press shove it.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #57
73. Bush is shoring up his base as best as he can. Attack it.
There are few undecided voters there. Bush has been working very hard to shore up his base. Attack his base by emphasizing the size of the deficits, the risks of foreign adventurism, and the weakening of civil liberties by the ill-named Patriot Act.

On top of it, Bush has many weak supporters who can be persuaded away too. Many of his supporters are not rabid freepers but are middle of the road citizens.

Go Kerry! Go Kerry workers and volunteers! Go Kerry!
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
100. agreed.
Anyone who is really undecided by this point will likely only decide to stay home on the 2nd.

We need to keep pounding on PNAC imperialism, to separate Rockefeller repubs from the neo-cons.

We have to make sure the fundies hear about the BFEE support of 'Rev' Moon, and how Moon thinks he is the 2nd coming.

We have to strengthen libertarian discomfort with *'s fundie base, how they would invade our bedrooms and judge us by the make-up of our families.

The Repub 'Big Tent' is a loose coalition of antagonistic blocks.

We have to use it.
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HulkamaniacUM Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
109. He won't go
I wish he would go to Iraq, because people would be outraged that Bush would blatantly use the troops for political gain.

But going to Iraq would take Bush away from battleground states for a couple of days. With two weeks left, Karl Rove would never let Bush leave the country for two or three days.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. Given that the "safe zone" has been breached, I don't think so.
I think the Secret Service would have a fit about him trying to do this. At least that's my hope...this would be big if Bush could pull it off.
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MrMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. He could copter into a base.
And I hope they fuel up the chopper with "Halliburton premium".
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. He could also just pretend to go to Baghdad
Bring some troops in, film on a set here in the US....God knows the media wouldn't bust him until AFTER the selection!(if at all!)
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #24
54. Plastic turkey redux....
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 07:04 PM by rfranklin
Bush gets stuffed!
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #24
64. Remember the movie "Wag the Dog"?????
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. Right on! I say send his ass over there sooooooooon.
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TwentyFive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
82. At what? $1,000 a gallon?
Somebody has to pay for Cheney's Halliburton pension, you know.
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Katherine2 Donating Member (319 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
21. I don't understand
why Bush doesn't want to visit the actual city of Baghdad, and greet the people there, and bask in the "democracy" he created.
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sisenor Donating Member (196 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. That would make headlines, Bush flying into Baghdad and his plane
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 05:42 PM by sisenor
getting mortared. Just what Cheney ordered . . . he would issue an emergency order to halt all elections -- until further notice.
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dicknbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. But remember when he went last time...
He never left the hanger he flew into the airport got a ride to ahnger walked around with the Turkey (Or was it the other way around) and then left. But you are right they are going to do something splashy. The real question is will the public fall for a stunt like that. My guess is that the real October surprise is going to be an attack on Iran by Isreal. Isreal may attack nuclear facilities in Iran. It would be a reall problem for Iran they really couldn't respond militarily as they know that Isreal would come back at them with Nuclear arms and then we would be in a world of SH!T!
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
5. Bush lacks personal courage--I'd don't think he'd go to Baghdad
now that the insurgency is lobbing mortar rounds into the "green zone."

But it's true, he does need some cheap stunt, that's for sure.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
43. He would need to wear that flight jacket to protect him between his legs
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't think so
Iraq is far more dangerous today than it was a year ago. But I don't see them doing this anyway. The disaster that is Iraq has begun to imbed itself (no pun intended) in the american psyche. A visit by the president would thrust this into relief.

Nor would the press wouldn't be as enamoured of this trick the second time around. There would, I suspect, be a fair number of articles about such a trip being a publicity stunt.

My vote still goes to raising the terror alert.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think you are giving the press too much credit.
They would love this stunt. They would be gushing with praise for the courageous wartime president.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
65. Skinner's right ...bush is doing nothing right now and the media
is peeing all over themselves to keep him out in front, low profile Kerry/Edwards ....they'd suck this pr stunt up like drowning rats...or lemmings following the idiot leader over a cliff...
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. If he did he'd paint a big fat target on his ass that

Kerry would have no trouble hitting and hitting and hitting.
I know Rove is brazen, but I can only hope he's that stoopid.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
obatanga Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. Chimp in Iraq?
I don't think they'd try it. His visit last time took an enormous amount of logistical setup under cloak of plastic-turkey secrecy. This time, it would be harder.
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. You're right.

And welcome to DU!!

:hi:

:toast:
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mccormack98 Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
10. No. It's too late. You gotta figure in Crawford down time ...
He'd burn up too much campaign time going there and coming back. You gotta factor in the down-time that Bush would need after the trip. Would probably have to spend at least a week on the Crawford ranch recuperating. You gotta remember that presidentin's hard.

Bush needs to a quicker fix. He needs to release dirt on Kerry.
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Longhorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. It seems to me that such a trip would backfire.
It would be so obviously political -- to take that much time away from campaigning to make a trip, especially when there's no reason for him to be there.

Of course, there have been plenty of other Republican campaign antics that I thought would backfire, too, that didn't, so what do I know? ;)
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Their stunts *never* backfire.
They have the media eating out of the palm of their hand. Nobody would point out that it is obviously political, because the only thing the media cares about anymore is trying to prove that they're not liberal.
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inmania Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. good point, but so close to the election
has much more potential to be seen for what it is - a bald-faced political ploy - and I just wonder if reminding people about his stupid mission accomplished stunt again would affect perception of any October surprise Rove cooks up.
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:23 PM
Original message
We need more comedy shows like Jon Stewart's
to keep an eye on these campaigns, now that the media has turned into forums for the parties to advertise themselves.
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. I could certainly see him going to Afghanistan
Parading around to announce the selection results in that country although that would just remind people that UBL is still foot loose and fancy free, wouldn't it?

I don't think Bush would have the cajones to go to Iraq.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
51. The Turkey Stunt did him no good
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #51
78. It did for three or four days -- until word of what it really entailed
got out. Three or four days of happy talk, stealing Kerry's light, would be all he needs to make it close enough to steal.
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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
102. "Mission Accomplish" backfired
If this were done in the closing days of this very long election, I really think this would be seen by anyone still undecided or soft Kerry (and thus obviously not enamored of Bush) as a naked political stunt.

It wouldn't matter one bit if Chris Matthews and Wolf Blitzer gush over it. Four years of their gushing has not sealed the deal for Bush, and this wouldn't do it either.

Furthermore it would remind everyone of how he did this same thing 11 months ago. And we're still in the same situation we were in then.

11 months of no or negative progress. Not something they want to remind voters of.

And finally, such a stunt would also completely contradict the Bush-promoted idea of a "sovereign" Iraq.

(The kind of stunt that thus might be useful would be a Bush-Allawi "summit". But I highly doubt the security situation there would permit any such thing. And they already tried this in DC last month without much success.)

--Peter
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inmania Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. will spreading the word inoculate against it?
if the media are expecting a Shrub mission-accomplished stunt, will it impress them less if it actually happens?
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ianrs Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. no
reasons: cowardice,secret service conniptions, and possible reaction of troops to being used as election fodder as well as battle fodder
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Homerr Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Can we give * a "Mission Accomplished" banner to take along?
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Lefty48197 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Maybe he could bring them some pumpkins
for them to carve up and feel right at home during Halloween.
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Thor_MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. You mean the WalMart plastic ones with lightbulbs inside?
No way the SS would let * play with knives, look what happened when they let him ride a bike all by himself!!!
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Carni Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. October 31st is probably the date
What could be more appropriate for a man pretending to be the President?

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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. On Halloween yelling BOO! Not to Baghdad, the south maybe.
A small containable town near Kuwait. Mention Desert Storm I. Saddam's Republican guard retreating. Perhaps find those planted WMD's put in.. last March was it -- if needed. Push that Kuwait is fine, so will be Iraq yadda yadda. Recount buried Iraqi stories (skipping mention of it happening in early 90's or letting it sound like an ongoing thing to invoke thoughts that Saddam was still doing it so we needed to be rid of Saddam.)

No mention of angle drilling from Kuwait to be certain.
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. it's far less safe than last Thanksgiving.
where would they put him?
the Green Zone?
there's no place they could keep him safe.
he's not going anywhere near the mess HE made.
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BobF Donating Member (52 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #26
92. It's always possible...
...that even our own troops wouldn't be in the mood to cheer the Chimp anymore. It sounds like there's a pretty significant 'morale' problem going on over there right now. What would happen if the Chimp popped up with his plastic prop in hand, and the 'boos' from the troops were louder than the cheers?

I think it's a realistic possibility that the Chimp would be jeered over there right now. Such an event would be a 'campaign killer'. Dare he risk it?



I don't think he will.

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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
28. I think they are laying the groundwork for an Osama "capture". CBS
news reported last week that they "know" he is in "Asia". Ominous enough sounding, and easily believable by the duped and deceived.
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hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. OBL in asia
Only 44.5 million sq km to search
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Funny, eh? They were talking as if Asia was a country and not a huge
continent. :wtf:
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bush equals idiot Donating Member (757 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
29. It would be just another
Eggs agger...ashun.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. If he DOES go to Baghdad, I hope he....
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 05:27 PM by AntiCoup2k
.....**Hi agent Mike**...... :hi:
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Paradise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. why did jeb announce, *yesterday, he will not run for president in 2008?
doesn't that open the door for a v.p. *last-minute october-surprise, if you get my drift? :shrug:
i'm nuts, right?
*4 whole years before the next presidential election!
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #32
66. he DID? Shit, Im out of the loop!
:kick:
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
68. good point, like VP John McCain ...
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Out the Parasites Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
33. What sort of rubber object will he carry around if he visits there? n/t
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Out the Parasites Donating Member (367 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. I know,,,,I know....a brain! sorry - i'm too self indulgent :-)
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Doosh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. that's why Kerry has to go to Iraq first....
...While Clinton makes a surprise appearence in Arkansas.
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Nickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #35
107. I've been thinking of that same scenario for a few months now
It would be perfect, but is it realistic? Do we want to risk his plane having "technical difficulties"? Sure would take all the steam out of their surprise thought wouldn't it?
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secular_warrior Donating Member (705 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
38. We need to launch preemptive attacks
We've pretty much destroyed the Osama surprise by talking about it for a year now. We need to get all of their Oct Surprise possibilities out there. If the public is aware before it happens it would look like a political stunt and thus have no effect.
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benito Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
40. Rumsfailed went to Iraq
and it got no traction. But I agree somewhat with others on here - the person to throw that last jab at the end will have the edge. The attention span of some of these voters is so short!

Memo to the bush* camp - our minds are made up, but feel free to take your best shot.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
41. Hope so
The chaos that would ensue would point up the lying happy talk about the tragedy there. These folks would do anything to get a shot at the devil that destroyed their lives.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. At this point nothing is gonna help the schmuck!
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Cyrano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
45. Their October Surprise is already out there. It's the Sinclair
hatchet job on Kerry. The right wing echo chamber will have marching orders to proclaim that "John Kerry is a fraud and unfit to be president."

And Bush and Cheney will use the closing days to shake their heads and tell us all that "Kerry's record is pathetic."

I'm just surprised that they haven't already started rumors about how "Kerry helped cover up for Ted Kennedy at Chappaquiddick." But maybe they're saving that one for the last week.
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Bernardo de La Paz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #45
76. Don't start any ridiculous rumors, even in jest.
The first rule of propaganda is that it doesn't matter what the lie and what the source, if it serves purposes then push it. The bigger the lie, the further it rolls. Stop it.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #76
98. Good call.
I was just about to reply to Cyrano with an even more outrageous scenario, but who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of lurking freepers. I'll just keep it to myself.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
52. He could wear an orange jumpsuit and pumpkinhead! n/t
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
53. even the sheeple would laugh at one
a trip to visit the troops would not help bush. i think many americans weren't exactly bowled over by the turkey day trip either.
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #53
59. I wish I were so confident.
My impression is that many people would think it was a good thing.
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pmbryant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #59
106. The ones who are voting for him anyway will think that
Undecideds and soft Kerry supporters are obviously not so gullible, or they would have fallen for the pro-Bush propaganda a long time ago.

Peter
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stubertmcfly Donating Member (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
55. could kerry...
...pull a pre-emptive strike on this one? that would rule.
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Citizen Carl Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
56. Call him out.
I think it might not be such a bad idea for Kerry or another top Dem to mention what Bush might be up to. A side comment to a reporter of despite how dangerous it is over there, it wouldn't be a surprise that Bush went over there for a cheap political stunt.

Oh yeah, I'm new. Hi.
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irancontra Donating Member (689 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Hi Citizen Carl
Welcome to DU!
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olddem43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
60. My guess is that they will announce that they have caught OBL
(or killed him) on Oct. 30 or 31 but they have to be sure it's him before they can bring him back for everyone to see. They can then stall until election day and by then it will be too late to prove it was a trick instead of a treat. Later, they can announce that tests showed that it was a double of OBL.
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Midlodemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #60
89. OBL is already
...camped out in the Lincoln bedroom. I agree with you, that the bushies are going to announce something huge with regards to OBL. Iraq is just too dangerous for such an unbelievable chickenhawk as *, but the prospect of killing someone who looks just like OBL and then telling everyone it was OBL will give him enough time to win the election.
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California Griz Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
61. I'll pay
for thr trip if he promises to parachute into Falluja.
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
62. it makes sense and they can fly the press over in the white house
press junket which happens to be the same plane Bush used to pick up the Saudis and Bin Laden family members the day after 9-11 to get them out of the country. Makes sense to me!!

There was an article about that plane in the July 22 Washington Post in which a reporter positively id'd the plane that picked them all up and traced the numbers to the White House. Figures. Bush is king and everything in the world is at his disposal.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
63. It would never happen
that is a two day process and it takes him out og the battleground states.

It would be seen as a ploy and its not gonna move anough votes to matter.


Although He might get a bump in say Kansas or Alabama...lol
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Clinton Crusader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
67. JMHO, but I dont think this would help him much.....
OBL on the other hand, sheeple are so DUMB as a rule, they'd think this is just dandy!
:kick:
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Sleepless In NY Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Why doesn't Kerry go over?
I've always wondered about that. If anyone would know what a soldier feels like in combat, it would be Kerry. Why not find out 1st hand how these troops feel about what's going on there?
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lapauvre Donating Member (387 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
69. I will go with Teresa.
The dead body of Bin Laden, or somebody who looks a lot like him, will be exposed the day before election day, or a bit sooner, like the Reagan release, thanks to his VP, George the 1st, of the hostages.
Republicans have endless money it seems. But not all Democrats are poor and they can ALL vote. I happen to be poor, but I appeal to all democrats who have means, to give it up to getting rid of this madman.

The USA has never yet declared a sitting president to be insane. but our constitution says there comes to the time. Our constitution provides for it. I think we have come to the point. There are thousands of sites , unlistened to, for impeachment. I have signed on many.

How to do it is complicated, when the entire congressional body is controlled by his party. I don't idolatrize a man, but I love America.

I have a video tape of Ronald Reagan who says he "wasn't aware" of the covert government operating with George the first and Ollie North out of the basement of the White House. All, Ronald Reagan, said, was he was prayed, and because he prayed, felt led by God.

So does this president,appeal to his base. RR was losing it then, if he was a President who didn't know, wasn't aware of the covert government in the White House Basement, paid for by taxpayer dollars.

IMHO, our current president is mad, insane, and for the protection of our country needs to be removed. I do not hate him. I have compassion for him. But America deserves my greater compassion. But the republican controlled congress will never, NEVER, give up their puppet.

I will never, NEVER, give up my love for my country. WE have a very great battle before us. I don't know the ins and outs of it, because I am just a citizen and voter. But this man is mad.

I don't know I like Kerry much better, and that isn't an issue for me.
Kerry will have a republican congress, as did Bill Clinton, and there will be a fight for balance among the political consequences for America. I just don't think Kerry is insane.

So, go for it, democrats, give it all you've got, and watch every move from the republicans. I am going to include a couple of items from the South Carolina democratic party, at another point. I can't believe what is happening in my State. How's your State doing

Florida's "early voting" had a computer crash! So how do their registered votes, which were, perhaps democratic, get counted?

Or was it perhaps set up that way.

I don't know. But any of you expatriate Americans, please tell me where to go and survive.

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soleft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
70. If anything it will be the capture of Al Zarqawi
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 09:43 PM by soleft
We've planted the story that he's pledged allegiance to Bin Laden, he is the Bin Laden surogate, he's been decapitating people in Iraq, capture him and you've got as good as Bin Laden, and it's a major show of successs in Iraq.

This is what worries me.
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YusefHawkins Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #70
91. Exactly!! You beat me to it.
The bush administration with the help of the media are building up al-Zarqawi into Global Enemy #1. They can't deliver OBL but they can build up al-Zarqawi and then choke fallujah until they cough him up. Then the bushwhackers will parade him around and say WE got him. Not sure how Republicans can get him. But hey, WE found Saddam even though WE weren't the ones looking in spider holes to find him. Notice that it is WE when the troops do something good and then when prisoners are mistreated WE didn't mistreat the prisoners or set the tone for it . A few rogue troops confused abused the orders they were given.
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byronm Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #70
99. Al Zarqawi
i think he's made up anyway..

If anything Al Zarqawi is going to magically move to iran and give Bush more excuses to invade another country..
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #99
105. A double-whammy?
Captures Al Zarqawi just before the election. If that doesn't give him the election, Iranian commandos bust him out, and suddenly we're in a shooting war with Iran, just as Kerry takes over.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
72. I'm thinking this would just call attention to his biggest screw up
As much lipstick as they try to put on the Iraq pig, it just keeps blowing up, literally.

Might fire up his delusional base ( I know some folks who think the media is making up the 'bad Iraq' stories, and that things are going just fine over there). However, I don't think most people are so naive and I don't think swing voters would buy it.

Who knows
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troublemaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
74. he is going to get his picture taken with a shackled Saddam Hussein
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
75. This would be a really stupid waste of time
Edited on Mon Oct-18-04 09:27 PM by Gman
from a campaign manager perspective. This race is too close and there are too few voters in Iraq that can vote for him. Bush's time is much better spent in the swing states here. Bush can't afford to go there as the race is way too close. Going to Iraq would be worse than going to Alaska whose 3 electoral votes are already Bush's but going many thousands of miles and many precious hours more to visit when he could be in Iowa or Ohio or Florida or Wisconsin, etc.

Strictly from a campaign manager perspective, of course. Personally, I'd love to see Bush go there and waste a couple of days not campaigning.
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Silverhair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
77. Doubtful. Rove isn't stupid.
1. It would look exactly like what it would be - a political stunt. That's why Duke looked so goofy in the tank - it was a political stunt and looked like it. Such things usually backfire.

2. Such a trip would take at least two days out of Bush's campaign. Two days of no campaigning at the home stretch of the campaign.
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mslux Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-18-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
79. Give Bush an October Surprise
In the last debate Bush said, "Thirdly, one of the reasons why there's still high costs in medicine is because this is -- they don't use information technology. It's like if you looked at the -- it's the equivalent of the -- of the buggy and horse days compared to other industries here in America. And so we've got to introduce high technology into health care."

The same day "The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services on Wednesday announced $139 million in grants to help make real President Bush's push for electronic health records for most Americans within a decade."

The grant is for the VERICHIP to be implanted in humans for "medical record" identification purposes. Bush wants to be able to track people electronically.

This is not likely to go over well with even his most ardent supporters. If this were to get better coverage in the press, it could be our October surprise for the Bushies. No?



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phish420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
80. Another one? Didnt know he went to begin with
When did he go before? Thought the chickenhawk only went on carriers off shore
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Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
81. I want to take that turkey and shove it down a certain throat!
Problem is, * is too big to fit inside the poor bird. :evilgrin:
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elephantkiller Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
83. the problem with not being part of the reality-based community
I'm not sure people would really stand for it. Rove and Company are stuck in their little media-created fantasy world, unwilling and perhaps unable to handle the fact that things are falling apart. I'm here in San Diego, which is the biggest most Republican city on the West Coast, and heavily military too. People are openly discussing how much they hate Bush. I've seen lots of Kerry-Edwards stickers on cars, more than Bush-Cheney ones (and I notice all of those. I react pretty viscerally--the sight of them makes me want to get out of my car and beat the shit out of people.) Even people in the military that I've talked to are disdainful of the so-called Commander-in-Chief. Nothing destroys illusion like taking a few bullets for bullshit reasons. To paraphrase an officer I worked under, "Yeah, Bush would be great and all, if our guys weren't out there getting killed in Iraq." And I think if Rove pulls his trademarked crap, and they manage to steal the election again, there will be an uprising for sure. An October surprise won't change any of the minds of the folk I've talked to. They're either rigidly for Bush, completely buying into his psychotic vision of America come hell or high water, or they are so disgusted with everything that there's no way they would vote for Bush, not even if they found out he was Jesus Christ himself.
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Longhorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #83
85. Welcome to DU!
Great first post! :hi:
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
84. Didn't realize ...
Edited on Tue Oct-19-04 06:19 AM by drfemoe
Something that showcases Bush's strengths, and takes full advantage of the power of the presidency.

he had any strengths?

And I have my doubts that there are any "enthusiastic troops".

He might try it though. No accounting for poor taste.
A plastic Ir*q, meebe?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
86. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
87. nothing would shock me any more
:kick:
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Babel_17 Donating Member (948 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
88. It's definitely possible but ....
that plan runs a high risk that Bush will be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Having his visit coincide with a bloodbath would be devastating.



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YusefHawkins Donating Member (79 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
90. al-Zarqawi is the new OBL/October Surprise
The bush administration with the help of the media are building up al-Zarqawi into Global Enemy #1. They can't deliver OBL but they can build up al-Zarqawi and then choke fallujah until they cough him up. Then the bushwhackers will parade him around and say WE got him. Not sure how Republicans can get him. But hey, WE found Saddam even though WE weren't the ones looking in spider holes to find him. Notice that it is WE when the troops do something good and then when prisoners are mistreated WE didn't mistreat the prisoners or set the tone for it :evilgrin:. A few rogue troops confused abused the orders they were given.
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headache Donating Member (6 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #90
93. Bush refused to take out Zarqawi before the war...

Speaking of this, if anyone is more familiar with the Kerry campaign, is there any concentrated effort to address Bushs most recent and blunders in the war on terror? Last week, of course, there was the exposition about systematic ransacking of entire buildings housing equipment and materials that could be used to make nuclear weapons in Iraq, following occupation See e.g., http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738452.stm. I have yet to see any major U.S. television network news story tackle this matter.

More importantly from this week and specifically yesterday are the administrations decision regarding terrorist target Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The administration has directed precision strikes in Fallujah in recent weeks, which includes blowing the living daylights out of the civilian housing in the city, in an attempt to smoke out al-Zarqawi. http://www.oudaily.com.../ Among other results, clerics there, who have insisted al-Zarqawi was not in the city, are now calling for resistant civil disobedience, see e.g., http://www.taftmidwaydriller.com.../

It is documented that Bush could have prevented this hostility by and against the citizens of Fallujah, if hed bothered to take on al-Zarqawi earlier, instead of letting him loose to puff up his case for invading Iraq. As you may know, in an article appearing on http://slate.com.../, which quotes and analyzes a March 2, 2004 MSNBC article titled Avoiding Attacking Suspected Terrorist Mastermind http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/..., Bush had three opportunities, long before the war, to destroy a terrorist camp in northern Iraq run by . But the White House decided not to carry out the attack because, as the story puts it: he administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam

With the Bush administration failing to pull the trigger on both Zarqawi and Bin Laden at numerous opportunities before this invasion, Bush has permitted these independent terror organizations to collude possibly increasing the threat against the U.S. , Al-Zaqawi was most recently and according to analysts, viewed as independent, someone who shared some aims with bin Laden but also considered himself a competitor recently swore allegiance to Osama Bin Laden & Co. See http://www.boston.com/news.../ . Well, I guess Bush is a uniter not a dividerwho knew he it would be for the terror network at the time.

Is there a reason we havent heard about this connection? Was this story debunked or something?

While were at it. Folks should remind the public again, as is often noted here, that Bush was on the longest leave taken by a sitting prez in August 2001, lasting about a month, particularly at the time of the warning that an attack might take place "inside the United States.". http://slate.com/... And of Foreign Policy in Focus paper, http://www.fpif.org/papers/04terror/index.html, which addresses key vulnerabilities, misallocation of resources,a nd pretty much failures of the Bush administrations approach.

Oh yeah, and on a petty note, we should never miss the opportunity to remind the redneck hawks among the voting population that Bush was a Male Cheerleader.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
94. Wouldn't surprise me at all. BUT, what would happen if...
he was injured severely or <gasp> killed while en route or once he was there?

Would Cheney declare Executive Privilege and stop the elections?
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vetwife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Thats more than a possiblity to shore up military vote maybe?
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shivaji Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
96. I agree with the poster who said "too much time away from campaign"
I think Rove knows that the best Bush can do is gin up the base
at this time, since they are leading (very slightly) in almost
all polls anyway.

But I am not putting any money on this LOL.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
97. If Bush does this, then the best response from Kerry
would be to point out just how great the security precautions are for Bush, as opposed to everyone else in Iraq...and also get some estimate of just what this little junket cost the American taxpayers, and then list how much desperately needed equipment could have been bought for our troops with the money wasted on what's clearly just a campaign photo-op.
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omnithrope Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
101. Think it would make any difference in the election if he did?
I'm not convinced it will make any bit of a difference.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
103. They will use the fabricated OBL - aka Zarqarwi
All they need to do is parade some poor brown-skinned bastard with his face blown off and claim it's Zarqarwi. Mission accomplished (NOT) again!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
104. This is the most plausible October Surprise theory yet!
Hopefully, the Kerry folks will prepare for this as it's one that will probably happen.
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Braunschweiger Bone Donating Member (68 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
108. Or better yet, have * catch Bin Laden himself on live TV!
He'll show up in Afghanistan and they'll have the president sneak into a cave and "find" Bin Laden himself!
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NV Whino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-19-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
110. So what's the turkey gonna do this time?
Hold up a pumpkin?
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MatrixEscape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
111. I think ...
We all know that Karl Rove would literally saut and eat Iraqi infants on National TV if it could win an election with it.

Rove was a perfect match for a loser like Bush. Rove is about any means being worth the end. His ethics have been amputated and his conscience is dormant. He is the very worst thing that has happened to American Politics since McCarthy. He proves that success and aclaim can be pure EVIL incarnate. Might does not make right.
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jambojonusa Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-04 01:42 AM
Response to Original message
112. Bin Laden Has Been Found
This looks to be legitimate news.

With the help of the Chinese IF they cave in, maybe Bush will be able to pull an October surprise.

Bin Laden has been found.
(oct 13, 04)
http://207.44.245.159/article7077.htm

salient points of the article:

Bin Laden is in China.
confirmed by Gordon Thomas, a journalist with contacts in the most important intelligence services.

Washington is (trying) to negotiate a highly secretive agreement with Beijing, for the eviction of bin Laden from his sanctuary in the turbulent Muslim provinces of China, in the Northwest part of China along the Pakistani border.

Last summer, Bin Laden sealed an agreement with the authorities in Beijing, in which he was granted asylum in return for his guarantees that the guerilla war of the Muslim Chinese against the Chinese nation would end.

Since the arrival of the Saudi Osama Bin Laden, the region has been relatively quiet, and the Muslims who live there are allowed to continue their trafficking of humans and drugs.

However, Bin Laden could now see himself trapped in his refuge, if an extraordinary agreement between Beijing and Washington would come to pass, in which China would hand over to the United States the most wanted terrorist in the world.

The capture of Bin Laden would virtually guarantee the reelection of George Bush Jr., as it would confirm to the millions of undecided voters of the U.S. that the war against terrorism was justified.

What would China get? "A new administration Bush would present China as its great new ally in the war against terrorism. China would enjoy in Washington the status of a most favored nation with all of its facets. Contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars would be approved by fast track. The history of human rights violations in China would be ignored,"

Will they do it? Who knows. China is the second largest oil buyer. bin Laden has cards of his own to play.

Two weeks ago Theresa Heinz on the campaign trail gave to understand that another October surprise could be imminent. She surprised the political advisors of her husband by declaring in public: "I wouldn't be surprised if, prior to the elections, president Bush were to capture Osama." Since then, Mrs. Kerry rejected to further comment on her explosive declaration. However, there are rumors in the intelligence community that both she and her husband had been advised that any further comments concerning an agreement that would include the capture of Bin Laden could comprimise the national security of the U.S.

At the moment, at the other side of the Zaskar mountains, the white summits that majestically look out over Bin Laden's sanctuary, a detachment of special forces of the Pakistani and U.S. armies are awaiting orders to capture Bin Laden, and move him by plane to Pakistan.



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