The real story behind the Cheneys' anger.....

[kentuck]

about their daughter being mentioned by John Kerry in the last debate. Previous to this mention, John Edwards had complimented Dick Cheney for the way he had handled the matter, in the VP debate. There was no hint of any anger at that time. So why were they so incensed this time?? And it wasn't just the Cheneys, it seemed to be the entire Repub establishment?

The real reason is that John Kerry took away their six-shooter and emptied all the bullets out on the ground, and gave it back to them. That was to be their "secret" weapon. Their plan was to divide this country over "gay" issues but Edwards and then Kerry have disarmed them, to a large extent, in the last couple of debates. And now they pretend they are extremely angry about Mary Cheney being mentioned again...and they are angry. But they are angry because they cannot credibly use the issue of "gay marriage" or whatever "gay" bashing they had in mind, because Kerry has reminded enough folks that Cheney's daughter is gay.

They still beleive if they can get enough people to talk about the issue, they will still be successful in dividing enough people to steal another election. But, the brilliant counter-move by Kerry and Edwards has left them standing in the middle of the street with their pistols.... but no bullets. :)

[demgrrrll]

1. That is how I see it too. eom.

.

[sandnsea]

2. True

Can't hardly bash gays when you just accused your opponent of bashing gays, wouldn't play well with those moderate Republicans. I don't care what they say, they need those votes.

[rooboy]

3. I think you're right. n/t

[Kire]

4. god, guns and gays

that's all they can run on

thanks, Howard Dean

[Morning Dew]

40. God, guns, gays . . .

here's where I come in. :)

[realcountrymusic]

5. I've been wondering about this too

Why would they be hammering away at this? Every time they say it, they cause major cognitive dissonance with their fundie base -- defending their gay daughter? They have to pretend to be ashamed of her, but if they pull that, the attack on Kerry is blunted.

They need the so-called missing four million fundies to vote to steal this election. They know it. I think this is a mistake. And I'm thrilled if it is.

RCM

Best. Anti-Bush. Song. Ever.
http://www.takinmycountryback.com/

[knowbody0]

6. i see it as strategy

just like mentioning daddy bush's wisdom to george.
these two have anger issues
their families are disfunctional
tearing down the facade of their compassion and tolerance is easy

[AntiFascist]

7. I agree!!!!

I feel this is THE issue which is motivating the conservative base of the Bush supporters. Better to get it over with now than introduce it right before the election.

Also, I think in the VP debate you could see in Cheney's eyes there was a lot of anger welling up about the issue, but Edwards handled it in such a positive way that they couldn't beat him up over it, plus they really wanted to use this against Kerry, not Edwards.

[VOX]

8. Mock outrage -- what the right wing does best. Great analysis, kentuck...

"...Kerry took away their six-shooter and emptied all the bullets out on the ground, and gave it back to them..."

Wow. :toast:

[rexcat]

9. My play on this issue would include

that Kerry and Edwards reminded the religious right who support the repuke ticket that Chaney has a lesbian daughter and he is very protective of her. This causes the religious right homophobic bigots great anguish.

I also agree with your assessment!

[Road Scholar]

10. Agreed!!

I thought M'lady was protesting a little too damn much! It all makes perfect sense to me. :toast:

[liberal N proud]

11. But! Everyone is talking about it. CNN is making it into a scandal

I agree with the fact that Kerry took their weapon away but they successfully re-armed compliments of the "LIBERAL" media.

[ibegurpard]

30. Not so fast

In order to keep the outrage alive, the Republicans have no choice but to acknowledge the role that gay people have in families. Yeah, they're trying to spin the whole "tasteless" angle and who knows whether it will work but the Republicans went for this like it was a red flag they couldn't resist. What remains to be seen is whether the fundamentalists will be turned off by the specter of the Republicans seeming gay-supportive and whether the independents and "moderates" will buy into the spin the Republicans are trying to push SO hard. Make no mistake...the Republicans ARE aiming this at the swing voters.

[Generator]

12. No the real story is they have managed to deflect all criticism

of our fuck up of a President back on to Kerry for a remark that dared to mention the love that shall not speak it's name.

Oh, and the fact that they have clips of Bush saying he isn't concerned with Bin Laden. They had that going as the media story of the debate for ten minutes and then whoops it's the LESBIAN daughter.

C'mon it's transparent. Proving again, that SEX is so much more scary than anyone, even the number one enemy of America.

[demgrrrll]

15. I agree with that too. What I am thinking though is how will anyone

talk about gay marriage without Mary Cheney popping into their heads?
Gay marriage was a more anonymous topic prior to the debates. It is easier to attack a faceless group of people. It is hard to know if the Kerry campaign was aware of what Bushco might be planning with this issue down the stretch. Maybe this action was better than allowing Bush and Rove to do something ala McCain with some push polls.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. No. John Kerry has turned his boat straight into the enemy yet again.

kentuck is dead on right. This initial salvo returned IN DEFENSE by the hate-filled and loathing Cheney family is aimed at Kerry coming right at them- calling them out on their divisive gay marriage homophobic agenda. Kerry is in the right here, and while the initial reports are that John has taken a direct hit, the inevitability is that the rhetoric and dialogue will continue AT LEAST another week, and the hypocrisy of the B/C campaign will be fully exposed.

[NV Whino]

13. When are the idiots going to drop the gay (non) issue

There are too many politicians who are gay (or in the closet gay), too many who have sons and daughters who are gay. Move on, idiots (I refer to the repugs, here. You can't win on this, you can only lose.

[Carolinian]

14. It silenced the republican party on the issue of gay marriage.

We need to do the same thing on women's rights.

[sangh0]

16. Wow! I think that was incredibly perceptive

The one thing that puzzled me about this is why the freepers were getting upset about it. I assumed that they were just following orders, but that's never what it's all about. There's always some hidden emotional trigger that sets them off and allows them to follow, but I couldn't see what it is. I think you nailed it.

They're angry because we won this one. Now they're trying to get their pound of flesh, and IMO it's backfiring on them.

[roseBudd]

17. What IS disgraceful is that Mary Cheney wasn't allowed on stage

at the RNC.

Talking point for LTTEs

[Generator]

19. That is an outrage!

How many people know that huh? I didn't until my husband mentioned it because I of course didn't want my eyes to bleed from watching the RNC.

That's right, she was not allowed on the stage next to her father. Them's Republican family values.


(Of course as someone that has personally ditched a bigoted father, I find Mary herself suspect for campagining for someone (whatever kind of father he may be to her)is working against the issues that should be core to her personhood-like more tolerance instead of the religious right over taking the country, but oh well)

[arewenotdemo]

27. Right. She could love her Daddy but still

acknowledge that he's wrong on all the issues and personally responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of Iraqis and over one thousand Americans.

Can't be too easy but Ron Jr. does it.

[Born_A_Truman]

20. Today

all the discussion was about Kerry talking about Mary Cheney and saying the "L" word in the 3rd debate. BFD!

I wish I had written down the channel and time (I think it was CNN or MSNBC because I've flipped between them today), but the reporter mentioned that many times Mary doesn't exit the bus with the rest of the family. She exits the back of the bus. WTF?

Does she have a mouth? Can she not speak for herself? She is a grown woman. She has worked for Coors as an openly gay person. Do they just trot her out when it's convenient to them? What's the deal here with Mary Cheney?

[blondeatlast]

18. Brilliant analysis; they've caused their "base" a great

deal of anguish over this.

This article backs up what you're saying, too, even though it has nothing to do with the "Mary" issue.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6539082?rnd=1097889448983&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.857

[roseBudd]

21. The base probably thinks she should be forcibly converted to hetero

or abstain from sex

[greekspeak]

22. I wonder how Mary likes being used as a tool by her daddy and party

Until they can use her to their benefit, it is "back o' the bus, Lesbo." No stage time for you, unless it will hurt John Kerry. I would be distancing myself from Daddy BigBucks Cheney and his moth eaten posse of PNACers if I were her.

[knowbody0]

24. i think she is lapping it up

savoring it privately with a shit eatin grin

[Riverman]

37. No sympathy for Mary

Mary like her father is a coward. She won't speak out for gay and lesbian rights, same sex marriage, or against gay violence because she's afraid of losing her inheritance of the Cheney fortune - the millions in blood money Dick whoreded (spelling on purpose) at the expence of over 1,000 American tropps and thousands of Iraqi children, women and men. I feel very sorry for Mary - it must suck to be her! By the way, Dick made Mary the issue when he first mentioned her in a forum in August long before Edwards or Kerry mentioned her. The Cheneys are the most evil family is US history. I would cheer Mary if she disowned them!

[ljm2002]

23. You got that right!

It's interesting. I must admit that when Kerry made his remark, I felt uncomfortable. But when I thought about it later, it seemed that he and Edwards must have had a reason that they both brought it up -- and that means it was a strategic move. When you think about it, it makes complete sense. If Dick Cheney and George Bush claim to endorse the far right agenda, including a constitutional amendment to outlaw gay marriage, then they look like uncaring schmucks; if they claim *not* to endorse the far right agenda, then there goes the base (not to mention, you gotta ask, where were they when the Republican plank was being written up?) -- in either case, they lose. So it effectively puts a whole topic area off limits for them. They're used to having it both ways; now they have it neither way. Ha, ha!

But they're plaing up the phony outrage for all it's worth. They now pretend to be shocked -- shocked! -- that their daughter's name would be brought up out loud in a debate. Yet Dick Cheney had already brought up his daughter in campaign speeches. He was trying to put a kinder, gentler face on his party when he did so. But by doing so, he made it a campaign topic. Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the woman is 35 years old, fer cryin' out loud! And she works as his campaign manager. Get real: yes, we can mention that she is his actual daughter and this is who she is.

They're trying to pretend that she should enjoy some special protection. The way I see it, she should not be, and cannot be made off limits. IF she were maintaining life as a private citizen uninvolved in politics I MIGHT feel differently, I'm not sure and haven't thought it out. But in this case, in a hard fought election, what I ask you is the big deep dark secret that is being kept here? For me, the real "outing" was learning that Mary Cheney is employed as a campaign manager for her dad. Now *that* is interesting! In any case, that, along with her age and rate of pay, makes the (faux?) outrage seem a little silly. (Note: I recall being surprised to learn that Colin Powell's son was the head of the FCC. And we see how well that's working out...)

[yardwork]

25. Good analysis. I knew Kerry did it on purpose.

Your theory makes a lot of sense.

[kentuck]

26. And it's hard t talk about it without mentioning Cheney's daughter....

and the Repubs do not get the mileage they thought they were going ot get. I think it was a strategic move by Kerry and Edwards also. :)

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I wish they would stop talking about it.

Pat Buchanan just spent 30 fucking minutes whining about Mary Cheney and her lesbianism. BIG FUCKING DEAL! You'd think Kerry called Mary a carpet muncher or something. Geeze!

[Sparkly]

29. I do have to commend Laurence O'Donnell, though.

He made Terry Jeffreys and Pat Buchanan go ballistic by saying "lesbian sex, lesbian sex, lesbian sex" as many times as he could.

He also got Terry Soprano Jeffreys to admit he thinks lesbian sex is immoral. "You heard it here folks -- Terry Jeffreys says Mary Cheney is immoral!!" crowed O'Donnell.

And if that wasn't funny enough, Jeffreys tried to claim that it's an assumption that Mary Cheney has lesbian sex. We don't KNOW she actually has lesbian sex.

O'Donnell said, if you can make the assumption that John Kerry "calculated" his mention of Mary Cheney in the debate (which they did), then we can make the assumption that Mary Cheney -- who's said she's a lesbian and openly lives with her lover -- has lesbian sex.

Jeffreys and Buchanan were left sputtering.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. I know. O'Donnell was the only bright light in that conversation.

He was outnumbered but he handled it well. I did crack up when he kept yelling lesbian sex and that repuke guy was sooooooo outraged by that. Haha! The repuke denied they have lesbian sex. WHAT A DOUCHBAG!

[zinsky]

31. Is Limp Dick angry because he is impotent?

A friend of mine in the medical field said that with the blood thinners and post-MI drugs that old Dick Cheney takes, he probably hasn't gotten it stiff since disco was in style.

No wonder the old bastard is so crotchety all the time!!!

[Riverman]

38. :ynn is a Lesbian

He is any angry old man because he ain't had any sex since his wife went lesbian in the early 1980's when she pbliched her book about lesbian lovers (sent in Wyoming). Randi Rhodes radio show has readings from the book everyday on Air America.

[chiron22]

33. Edward's wife nailed it.

Whether you find Kerry's remark offensive is an indirect measure of homophobia. What is clear is that the Cheneys are wiling to use their daughter for crass political purposes. They obviously want to keep it alive as long as possible.

[coreystone]

36. "chiron22"......Welcome to DU.....

Just remember, "we're all Bozos on the bus"!


:-)

[coreystone]

34. I have supported Kerry's position to bring this issue up....

but, "kentuck", I must admit that your strategic assessment of why Kerry brought it into the debate, is quite fascinating. As a matter of fact, I think that it is quite sensible.:think:

:dem:

[Cronus Protagonist]

39. I concur - for what it's worth.

You nailed it.




"So I don't worry about, and people shouldn't
worry about a draft. . . I think we're in good
shape, I really do. And, if not, we'll -- I'll address
the nation. But I don't see any need to right now."
- G. W. Bush (Source: The Whitehouse)

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Senator Lamb]

41. Im nervous

is this lesbiangate hurting Kerry? is it really distracting the public? Or is this a non issue? WE MUST NOT LOSE MOMENTUM