The problem with Franken and Stweart 'Calling out the media' on CNN

[WilliamPitt]

Stewart called out the media on Crossfire, going so far as to call Tucker Carlson a "dick." Franken is doing the same.

Admirable, and a lot of fun to watch. The problem with this is the nature of the audience.

CNN and stations like it are a fused loop. They are watched by two groups: People inside the D.C. Beltway, and other people in the media. That's it. Look at the share numbers if you doubt me.

Franken and Stewart are talking to people whose best interests lie in the media behaving as it has behaved. I am not sanguine that a mighty blow has been struck here.

Stewart could, of course, carry his media-attack campaign onto Comedy Central, which *lots* of people watch.

If this is a beginning, it is a good one. If this tonight is all there is to be, it won't do much, sadly.

Mt 2 cents.

[Howardx]

1. ive wanted to say that to tucker a number of times

its was refreshing to see but long term benefits/losses? i dont know.

[endnote]

42. it was awesome... Tucker looked like a beaten doggy...

[ant]

2. Stewart was just calling them out

He was just letting the media insiders know what people think of them. Stewart does attack the media on Comedy Central, and here he just had a chance to do it to their faces.

I don't think this is some big moment or anything - people who watch TDS already know what Stewart said on Crossfire. The point here was to let Crossfire know.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Will...

It's simply the start of a much needed "In Their Faces' dialogue.

[KittyWampus]

9. Thanks, It Had To Start Somewheres...

[blondeatlast]

12. Stewart's done this for some time now on HIS show, he's just taking

it on the road now.

He made Leslie Blitzer more than uncomfortable, for instance.

[senseandsensibility]

4. Well, it's not going to solve all of the problems with

the media, that's for sure. I just feel that the first blow has to be struck somehow, and what better way than with humor? Michael Moore is good at this too. When the Dem politicians totally abdicate their responsibility, and refuse to call the media on their bias, I am grateful to anyone who will. And I think it might have an effect, especially if it happens more often.

[russian33]

5. My favorite quote from Stewart to Carlson:

CARLSON: You need to get a job at a journalism school, I think.

STEWART: You need to go to one.



But I see your point Will.

[tridim]

6. I'm trying to figure out a way to make this a public issue

and a cause. Jon Stewart, Terry McAuliffe and Al Franken all dropped huge bombs on CNN today. The way I look at it, they served the opening salvo and we are the troops that need to move in and take back our territory. I believe taking back our media is equally as important as getting Kerry elected.

[RafterMan]

19. Well said

" I believe taking back our media is equally as important as getting Kerry elected"

Or more so. Without the media to spread his lies and cover his failings, George Bush would be impotent. Without a reinvigorated media, we have no insurance against similar missteps in the future.

[Philostopher]

7. Y'know, anybody who was surprised Stewart said what he did

hasn't been paying any attention to him. He's made the point before that the discourse must be pretty degraded, when more young adults say they get their news from his show than from so-called 'real news' sources. He said pretty much the same stuff he said to Carlson on Larry King (I think it was Larry King) about a month ago, when the book came out -- only obviously he didn't call Larry King a dick, since Larry King doesn't pretend his show is real news any more than Stewart and crew pretend that The Daily Show is real news. This is a continuation of a rant Stewart's been delivering for years, and I doubt very much he'll stop. The talking heads may stop having him on, but I genuinely think Stewart is gobsmacked by the fact that people feel he's a more reliable source for news than the cable 'real news' shows, and that kind of shock isn't something that wears off quickly.

But you're probably right that one rant at an empty suit isn't going to change much in the world of cable 'news.' I don't think Stewart's trying to do that -- I think he genuinely wants somebody to explain to him why people thing TDS is more reliable as a news source than their shows are, and nobody's given him a genuine answer yet. Maybe he'll keep asking until they do, I don't know.

[meganmonkey]

8. people who travel a lot watch it a lot too

this isn't meant to be a blanket statement, but most airports i've been in play cnn on their bigass tvs at every gate

also many hotels with limited cable service have cnn as their one news channel

[pretzel4gore]

29. lies substitute for truth

and weakness substitutes for strength....the mediawhores and their faithful believers are crapping in their own nest, pissing on their own food, hurting themselves intentionally....
you can't be anti fascist and not love it to some extent....

[PROGRESSIVE1]

10. Too bad FOXCNN could not just be shut down.

[blondeatlast]

11. "The Daily Show" has always been just BRUTAL to the media.

They've directed more barbs at the media than at Wrong--and that's saying something.

Stewart ripped Leslie Blitzer a new one with no apologies.

[Demoiselle]

62. The show's target IS the Media...not the politicians it covers!

That's what makes the Daily Show so brilliant. They're skewering the messengers, guys. I seldom see Stewart go after the pols themselves.....he and his daft cast nail the egos and the bullshit and the posturing of our talking heads with exquisite precision. Tonight he just chose to say, straight up and without any flourishes, what the Daily Show says every night it's on. I don't care whether he starts a revolution or not...if just one idiot pundit actually HEARD when he said tonight and took it personally, and maybe blushed a little, I'm a happy girl.

[depakid]

13. Just as an anecdote

A friend of mine called me a little while ago- one who I've urged not to watch CNN- both because of backhanded bias and because it really upsets her) and she's now going to (finally) turn it off... by programming it off of her TV.

Good riddance.

[KoKo]

14. Don't understand what you are saying. Crossfire has Media Wonks

watching (disgusting to me...that it's come to that) but whatever..but that Stewart and Franken "dirtied themselves" in that interview?

WHAAA???

[The River]

15. The "News" IS the News

But don't expect them to report the truth about themselves.
Never before in human history have special interest groups
had the ability to blanket the planet their version of
the "truth" on a 24/7 basis.
Breaking up the media monopolies and restoring the "Fairness Doctrine" would be a good start. We also need to continue to use the "internets" as a public watchdog. We let the fox slip into the hen house this one time. Never again.

[liberal N proud]

17. But they have stopped reporting the news as news

They keep adding their opinion.
That is what has turned me off.

Welcome to DU River.

[The River]

24. Thanks...

"Their" opinion should be called what it actually is: Propaganda.
I guess thats why Jon's "fake" news has become the real news.

[incapsulated]

16. Jon took the fight to them

Directly. In their face. That's what made it beautiful.

Will it change anything? No. But it was still a great moment.

:hi:

[belle]

31. Agreed. And it inspired people, I've no doubt. Me for one.

It really was a "Wizard of Oz" moment for me. The facade that the media has presented, that it is this smooth well-oiled machine that cannot be tinkered with, suddenly crumbled for a minute; I saw the confused and angry, all-too-human hosts when they finally realized that Jon Stewart was not "going to be their monkey." And that he was saying a few things that at some level, I feel, they knew were true.

Look, journalism is at a nadir point right now. Does that mean it can't ever get better again? Well, it has done before--look at the period of "yellow journalism," for instance. Walter Cronkite and the other golden standards most of us remember came *after* that. The wheel goes around. reforms get made. But first, people have to acknowledge that there is a problem. And once again, thanks to Jon Stewart. It was no more or less than a good start.

[incapsulated]

34. At the very least

It sent them the message that not everyone is fooled by their little game. We are on to them.

Plus, the members of the audience might go home with something to actually think about. Those are real people and he reached them, if not the hosts of this political game show.

[Cha]

66. I thought it was delicious!

I haven't watched crossfire since bill press got fired..

But I went back today via the net to see Jon do the unthinkable...go on to promote his book and tell them their shit Does Stink.

Wonder if they'll editoralize about this?

[incapsulated]

68. Me either

What was funny to me is that I don't watch it anymore for all the reasons Jon stated.

[RafterMan]

18. It got picked up by MTV.com

Although they draw an odd conclusion, beginning, "In an era when the media is increasingly fragmented..." (don't they mean the opposite?), I thought that showed good reach.

Also, you have to give them bonus points for going to the enemy on their own turf and blowing them away. CNN is like a closed loop. But it is the people caught in that noose that saw Stewart and Franken today.

It was fantastic.

[blondeatlast]

20. The LIE has been exposed. Remember that the vast majority

of people believe that the news is unbiased and that they can't lie. Now they've seen two media "stars" (not to metnion McCauliffe, too) take the issue right into CNN's home turf.

CNN has become the last place network and they seem to be getting desperate. Their attempt at outFAUXing FAUX has been a miserable failure, and the smarter people watch MSNBC.

THEY CAN BE DRIVEN TO OFFER OBJECTIVE REPORTING, but we can't let up on them now.

I don't want them kowtowing to President Kerry like they lapdog for Bush. I want real, objective news.

It could happen.

Edit: I also want to see HELEN THOMAS front and center at Kerry's news conferences!

[belle]

32. Agree with this, too. Email them! Tell them that!

[Cha]

67. " I also want to see HELEN THOMAS front and center at Kerry's news ..

conferences!"

YES!

[Carolinian]

21. You know, I have to wonder if all the media really want to vote for

Bush. They may have to stand in front of a camera and mouth honor to Bush to keep their jobs, but they are alone in the voting booth. They may not be for Bush at all.

Months ago I read a few threads supposedly by a person from the media. This person said Democrats were defensive and accusatory with them and the Republicans were polite. Over and over they stressed that we need to be nicer to the media. That may have been just hype, but it's something to think about.

[orpupilofnature57]

22. TIME FOR THE MEDIA TO FESS UP,fu-kum they have us

From the first guesstimation of the perished,in the twin towers,to the stupid French bashing highlighted by the media instead of scrutinizing this clown * at a critical time in our history.Industries protected by the constitution,should use freedom of speech for information,not cartoons.

[ibegurpard]

23. I don't see that it's a "problem"

Although I agree that this one instance isn't going to have much effect, it was pretty fun to watch. Interestingly enough, I just got finished watching a critique of the politicization of the media on C-SPAN. This won't be the end of this.

[sangh0]

25. CNN, then C-SPAN??

Let's shoot for the stars! Maybe PBS is next!!

[Francine Frensky]

26. What happened??? Missed this,

and please don't send me to the video link above, because it doesn't work for my mac

[Rev_Karl]

54. well find a link friend, it's good tv

I wish I could send you a good link. Try them all here and Kos etc. You'll get it eventually. It's worth the work.

[madfloridian]

27. I know someone who took a strong stand against media during the primaries.

It is not the beginning of the call-out, it is the continuation....and I can think of one person who paid dearly for standing up to the media. Lest we forget so soon.

[sangh0]

38. There's a very long line

Remember the movie Network?

[Selwynn]

65. No, he faced the media backed by the politcal insiders who hated him

So far Jon just irritates the media. When jon begins to directly threaten political parties or figures in ways they clearly recognized, he'll be destroyed, or the attempt to destroy him will be made exactly like it was this other person you refer too... :)

[KelleyKramer]

28. Well SOMEBODY has to, remember Wolf on the Daily Show?

Its a start. If you remember Wolf Blitzer on Stewarts show a few months ago.
By coincidence there was a major report that came out that same day on no wmd's in Iraq.
And Jon asked him why they (the media) didnt ask these questions before the war. Wolfie tried to blow it off, but Jon pressed it.

Wolf looked visably startled that he had to actually answer for his actions, his face turned completely red and finally he said "What, you never made a mistake?".

I screamed at the tv.. 'NO, I never made a mistake that resulted in thousands of people dying!!'

Thats the attitude these whores have, and that was the day I lost what little respect was left for Wolf Blitzer.

These people need to be held accountable, if comedians like Stewart and Franken are the first to do it, well at least its a start.

If all the other talking heads watch CNN then thats all the better.. they all deserve more than an earfull.

[blondeatlast]

44. His real name is Leslie (Wolf's). That was a classic piece of television.

That was the moment I realized that even the media can't defend itself.

They may work for corporations, but they can't stand, as individuals, to be taken to task (look at Carlson today--he was like a kid pointing fingers!).


As individuals, they are very vulnerable.

We should exploit this weakness. Without a truly free press, we simply cannot have a lasting democracy.

[KelleyKramer]

51. It was VERY revealing IMHO

Wolf (or Leslie) was shocked someone would hold his actions accountable.

And his answer was even more shocking.

Then he had this smug 'how dare you' look during the short time left for the interview.

I'll never respect him again, and damn sure will not watch his (now officially shameless) program on CNN.

Didn’t see either one, but good for JS and good for Al Franken today.

[DrFunkenstein]

30. Sorry, Will, But You're Way Off On This One

Besides the enormous of people that watch CNN in public places (hence the choppy, visual, moronic format), you are ignoring even the official numbers. Cable news shows are steadily sapping away the audience from the networks.

Couple that with the fact that the people working in the media know that they are full of shit, but are such attention whores that they feel they shouldn't make waves - and they love news stories about themselves.

It would be stupid to suggest that Jon Stewart's stature hasn't risen enormously in the past year or two, even ignoring the numerous Emmy's. It may be a fused loop, or a snake eating its own ass, but Stewart has been building up tremendous cache within the self-loving, self-hating media.

On top of that, it was an amazing moment, no matter how you square it. It was totally raw and sincere and, yes, important. And while the reverberations may not be immediate, I would be greatly surprised if they did not make themselves felt in time.

[belle]

33. Yes.

[blondeatlast]

46. As individuals, the whores are vulnerable.

Stewart's decimation of Leslie and now Carlson's complete inability to to handle Stewart is proof.

Take them as individuals and individual programs. They will slowly topple.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

35. Stewart has the #1 bestseller so he'll have PLENTY of other opportunities

So, Crossfire probably won't be all there is

[nomes]

36. If you think this is the first time Jon has voiced these views...

...you must not watch his show. Also, it's not a closed loop. Much of America just turns on CNN if they want information, and don't really look anywhere else.

I wouldn't critique such a bold move by Stewart. I'm heartily impressed by his bravery.

[against all enemies]

37. The more people get pissed the more pressure there is to report NEWS

How great is it that these bags of wind on CNN, are laughed at behind their backs by everyone with a brain. Thanks Jon, for making that possible. Our greatest news show is a comedy show, and everyone knows it.

[blondeatlast]

47. Stewart gave voice (on their own turf!) to what many of us have said

for eons.

It's a grand start, er, continuation, actually!

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

39. From my viewing of the Daily Show, isnt it intended to be a media hit?

Heck, the show is a parody of media nonsense...especially those 'reporters" they have. They are nailing the media BS w. every show.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. The Book Is Extremely Pissed At The Media, Too

The chapter on the media is especially ulcerous.

[Maiden England]

41. so how do we continue this and make it something tangible

I'm new to all this, what is the best way to try and convince the media to start behaving like real journalists. Do we simply write endless letters to the media, complaining, do we write letters to advertisers on these networks. Point me in which direction to go, which is most effective. I for one would like to make sure that we push this issue until we get a decent media that encourages political discourse, rather than political debasement.

[union_maid]

43. This is what the Daily Show IS

My husband and I are 30 years out of the Daily Show demographic, but we never miss it. As the media has debased itself further and further, Jon Stewart and The Daily Show are taking it on very directly. Jon Stewart is making use of his book touting appearances to make sure that some of the serious media outlets start to understand that when he pokes fun at them and his not inconsiderable audience laughs with him, it's not "all in good fun", just kidding around or exaggeration for the sake of comedy. It's pointed, it's serious fun, and we're mad as hell and we're at least considering not taking it anymore.

[blondeatlast]

49. I said it before, and I'll say it here, since you'll understand what

I'm talking about--TDS is more like watching Uncle Walter, Huntley and Brinkley, and Howard K. Smith than watching the pretty faces at CNN. Straight reporting that lets the absurdity speak for itself.

I became a news junkie early in life, but I do remember the '60s, even though I lived in a teeny little Montana town.

[starroute]

45. The video is flying round the Net via peer-to-peer

I asked my son at dinner if he could download it for us. He said, "I will, but you'll have to wait a day or two because it will take that long before there are enough copies available to get decent download speeds." But when I checked DU after dinner, someone had already posted a Bittorrent link on a thread here. Not only did my son snag it easily, but he was astonished at how many people were making it available at once.

I swear that within 48 hours at least 50% of all Jon Stewart fans will have seen it -- probably even higher among the tech-savvy 18-29 year olds.

If this is a game of rock-paper-scissors, then peer-to-peer is capable of crushing cable tv any time it matters. This video is just going to keep gathering momentum and is not going to be forgotten.

Eventually, what Jon Stewart did today will be recognized as a shot heard round the world on the order of the Battle of Lexington or Martin Luther tacking his theses up on the church door -- an epochal blow for freedom of conscience.

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

48. link to a bit torrent, please, thank you? (nt)

[southlandshari]

52. Several links to video in this DU thread

The first one (in the second or third reply to original message) worked for me, though it had to buffer more than more multi-media files usually do with my cable modem.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1084342#1084367

[Rev_Karl]

55. torrent link

http://bitflood.org:8080/?file=791b2f5d95a54d1381b85f271b51f71e73964185

[Heath.Hunnicutt]

70. thx. peer 2 peer is amazing

The download speed is great, I think the original poster has a point about peer-to-peer networks changing the way media will be distributed.

[blondeatlast]

50. I truly believe you are right--this was a momentous occasion.

The vulnerability of the corpwhore media is there for all to see, and it's as simple as ordinary human vanity.

Stewart exposed Leslie Blitzer, now he's exposed yet another media shill.

It won't be long till they attack each other like rabid dogs.

And Helen Thomas will regain her rightful place: front and center at presidential news conferences.

[TheDonkey]

53. Crossfire is far from being the "enemy"

Stewart should have tried to go on a higher rated and more obnoxious show like Hardball, Larry King, or O' Reiley.

[Rev_Karl]

57. Why?

His point is that this show was co-opted, the 'liberal' character guy said something like 'I have friends in the Bush administration and...' - That's the point - it's all a show and it's claiming to be journalism. John Stewart was himself, and the single guest. He has to debate the hosts alone and he did a wonderful job. And he's right the 'conservative' character guy is a dick.

[blondeatlast]

59. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[southlandshari]

56. I wonder....Nightline....hmmmm

Many DUers remember Jon Stewart making the same sort of impassioned plea to Ted Koppel on Nightline a few weeks back (it was a shorter segment than the Crossfire appearance, but at least Koppel didn't mock or marginalize Stewart like the "hosts" today did).

Koppel's been around a l-o-n-g time, and I'm sure there were a number of factors that played into the decision he and Nightline producers made to go on the attack with the SBVT last night. Maybe it wasn't the biggest factor, but I feel in my gut that Stewart's honest and genuine challenge to a veteran journalist beginning to look at his legacy may well have been among the things that tipped the scales in favor of honest (if unpopular) reporting in this case.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[blondeatlast]

60. I believe you may be right.

Any journalist with any integrity whatsoever has to be disgusted at what they see going on around them. Thank God that there are a few of them left...

[Nordic]

69. somebody has to shame the media, to tweak the egos of the talking heads

Folks such as Koppel and Dan Rather and, hell, anybody whose face is on TV have huge fucking egos, and one way to get them to do what they're supposed to do is to publicly shame them.

[ibegurpard]

58. One more thing to consider here

The entire segment is available on the internet. I've sent the link to a ton of people.

[blondeatlast]

61. We need to find the Leslie Blitzer on TDS recording too.

That one was utterly jaw-dropping it was so good!

[Nordic]

63. quit navel gazing. I don't care who calls 'em out, or when, or why.

as long as they get called out.

They are the enemy of the United States of America and they need to be revealed.

Our democracy will FAIL without a free press.

These media whores have a responsibility. They are ignoring it, in fact they are wiping their asses with their responsibility.

[Selwynn]

64. It was not a mighty blow or the dawn of a new day or a revolution

It was however, brave, absolutely right, and extremely refreshing. Just because two men are not going to change the face of the media doesn't mean I'm not GLAD those two men stood up and said what they said, and it doesn't mean I don't hope they won't do it again.. and again ... and again.

One thing it does do for the country: it gives those of us fighting the good fight a breath of fresh air and is one of the things that personally renews my energy. I wouldn't want them to do anything else but tell it like it is, regardless of who is or isn't listening.