Straight from the mouth of ROVE -"WATCH ZOGBY"

[AVID]

Greta van Sustern had ROVE on her show immediately after the debate.

He puffed up *, made silly, smearing comments about Kerry and then said Americans will see that * gets the momentum form this performance - "watch the Zogby poll."

I 'm feeling a bit like Mel Gibson in . . . you know his first "conspiracy"" movie.

[Lilli]

1. :)

Understandable...I'm not looking for comfort from ANY place that has numbers that can be manipulated. Its too easy for them to be corrupted.

[fujiyama]

2. I have to say

That's just bizarre...

Zogby always struck me as having integrity. I don't think he's quite as great as some people say he is but I always found him having some integrity. I also know that he messes up at times (he had CA really close just days before in '00?).

This is all very strange. I'm going to get away from this shit for a few hours. I've had enough of these polls for now. It's making me sick and I'm losing sleep over this election in general. Maybe Rove has gotten to Zogby as well...funny but he had Arkansas practically tied the other day.

[DoYouEverWonder]

3. Daily polls are a crook

I use to work in medical research. It is very, very easy to manipulate data to get the results you want. Researchers do it all the time.

[ClintonTyree]

4. That IS curious..................

it would seem KKKarl had some inside information as to how the Zogby poll would go, especially since Zogby has been placing Kerry higher that Bush in previous polls. Who knows? It's far too early to cast conspiratorial aspersions about Zogby, but keeping an eye out for a trend is in order. Rove has never once mentioned Zogby to my knowledge, but Zogby has always seems the most rooted in reality among pollsters. We have to keep an eye out here for sure.

[cthrumatrix]

5. screw the polls and the media at this point.... vote like hell on Nov 2

[Shopaholic]

6. And now we know why---Zogby polls out today show Bush with

a 4-point lead. Now, Zogby has an internet based poll which anyone can sign up for--my guess is that the Repugs have all signed up and are attempting to manipulate the vote this way--hence what Rove said on TV.

[Atman]

7. So, if anyone can sign up...

Well, DUers, if this isn't a poll crying out for some DU lovin' I don't know what is! Fuck Karl!

[Zuni]

13. makes perfect sense

Rove is probably using Zogby's on line polling to manipulate public opinion. The guy is crafty as hell. A very dangerous enemy

[auburngrad82]

8. I'm sure they've figured out the can influence the poll by

getting their people to sign up online like I did and skewing the results in Shrub's favor by sheer numbers. Zogby says they factor in party affiliation but why give that away? We've seen in the last few weeks what happens if you let people know you're democrat. They throw your registration card in the trash or turn in a change of address form to try to keep you from voting. I've seriously been considering changing my party affiliation to republican just to insure that they don't screw with my voter registration. Doesn't change the way I vote, just keeps me off the radar screen and may cause the republican party to waste some money in mailings.

[DemocracyInaction]

9. I want this on the first page---it may explain a lot

There has been a lot of talk about Zogby being THE poll by Dems because it had the race most on the head in 2000. I think this Rove comment now explains a lot. They went directly at this Zogby poll which has this on-line component (sign up to be interviewed on line)and wanted this to be THE blast after these debates knowing it would kick the guts of Dems. It's odd that this thing just flipped as fast as it did since it's a 3 day average. This sucker got ROVED. I have to, after that remark, put it on a highly suspect list.

[DemocracyInaction]

10. P.S.---to my reply. It also explains why right before the debate

in this 3 day tracking, the dead heat of 45-45 that was there for several days suddenly got broken and rose to 46 for Bush. They knew they were able to move it and thus, they knew they were going to be able to move it even further after the debate.

[randr]

11. If anyone were able to corrupt the polls

it would be Rove!

[DaveinMD]

12. Zogby

did have a reputation as being a little corrupt in New York. He was in the pocket of Alfonse D'Amato.

[MoonRiver]

14. Some of Zogby's polls, including this one, are associated with Reuters.

I'm a little suspicious of this but what do I know?

One thing I'm sure of is that this poll does NOT reflect the American electorate. WO FUCKING WAY.

[Julien Sorel]

15. IIRC,

Kerry had a strong day in the tracking that was about to drop off. Rove knew this, and simply made a "prediction" in an attempt to spin. Pretty desperate. I can't believe people fell for this stupidity.

By the way, I'm beginning to suspect Rove has run a simply atrocious campaign, but no one is calling him on it. The reality is, Bush should have a healthy lead with this economy, but Rove went into panic mode over Iraq, essentially ceded domestic issues to Kerry, and is locked in to running a smear campaign. Had they chosen to cede some ground on Iraq (as Blair has done) and fight over domestic issues, my own guess is Bush would be ahead. But because he's on the attack all the time, people assume he's running a great campaign, without actually bothering to gauge the efficacy of those attacks. Americans worship the word "aggressive," without acknowledging the tradeoffs that come with being aggressive.

[WI_DEM]

16. I'm not going to start dumping on Zogby due to one bad polling day

that is hardly a trend. This is a tracking poll--they fluctuate. We will have to see if a trend develops. If Kerry is moving up again tomorrow in all likelihood it is not a trend. Zogby was right in 2000, and he generally has been reliable this year. We can't always discredit every pollster just becuz they have bad news--Kerry could be up again tomorrow.

[MallRat]

17. When Zogby was the only poll showing Kerry ahead, was he saying this?

The degree of desperation in the Bush campaign is directly proportional to Karl Rove's media availability.

If he's on cable news around-the-clock, then they must think they're in big, big trouble.

-MR